arp > str once you get 30% arp from gear
Ok, so Ive been reading about armor penetration Vs. Str gems and for some reason beit the eating of paint chips or the huffing of cheap hairspray fumes I cannot grasp it. So I give to you guys my armory and I need suggestions, do I keep my str or do i move into the realm of armor penning everything I can.
Thank you guys in advance for any information you throw my way
The World of Warcraft Armory
arp > str once you get 30% arp from gear
only if you have 30% arp or more from gear before gems then yes
Depends on what spec you are.
Arms = ArP > Str
Fury = Str > ArP
Reason being that if you are fury because of how improved berserker stance has changed, str scales the more you gain from gear.
Also, you fight in berserker stance at all times so you don't gain the benefits to ArP that arms does from battle stance or the deep arms talents. If you are raiding in ulduar, most of the dps plate gear has armor pen on it, it's very easy to hit 35-40% passively. This is all you need to get. Reason for that being if the target is fully sundered and you hvae a Grim Toll or a Mjolnir Runestone active, that's the armor pen cap right there. Stacking above that is pointless unless you know you aren't going to get your hands on an armor pen trinket for a long time, and even then, stacking ArP in fury results in less overall dps than stacking Str.
Arms is the complete opposite, but still shouldn't stack above 35-40% armor pen unless you know you will not get any sort of armor pen trinket for a long long time.
Ok so here is my warrior
The World of Warcraft Armory
I was previously stacking Armor Penetration before I got the 2 pieces of T7.5 last night (Yep )
I had the 10m Ulduar piece (Chestplate of Titanic Fury) that gave me 71 armor pen rating when equipped, but since I got 2 pieces of T7.5 I decided to switch them out until I can get T8-T8.5 so I can get my 2 set bonus.
As you can see I'm gemmed for Armor Penetration in everything but my legs and chest, as those are my 2 new pieces and didnt want to waste the money putting it in if it's not worth it.
I'm at 19% armor penetration without Battle-Stance or any other additions to it besides Gear.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that I should regem all +Str gems, I have the 5 scarlet rubies but just not sure what to cut them as right now.
Also my Hit Rating is at 172 now, I'm a bit worried about that.. any suggestions? The pants I replaced had +80 Hit rating on them I used to be at 226 hit rating which wasnt too bad. 172 is deathly low from what I've read.
Last edited by Sray; 07-26-2009 at 10:23 AM.
If you are arms you want to stack armor pen until you get to 35%, then you want to get as much of that to be passive as possible.
Once you have 35% armor penetration passively, THEN you can switch to str gems, but that also depends on what you have trinket wise.
If you can get your hands on an armor pen trinket like grim toll or mjolnir runestone, then you stack armor pen to 35% then stack str.
If you know you aren't going to have one of those trinkets for awhile, keep stacking armor pen in your gemming until you do.
Once you get an armor pen trinket you can replace your armor pen gems with str so long as you have at least 35% passive armor penetration from your gear.
Hit rating is going to be rough, i've recently discovered that the hit cap for warriors with precision is 5%, but since you are arms you won't have precision, so you are going to want to get up to 8%.
Truthfully, until you are both hit and expertise capped, hit and expertise gems will yield more dps than str or armor pen (it's great if you gain 500 extra damage from all your armor pen gems but if they miss half the time then you actually end up losing more dps than you gain).
As arms since you have weapon mastery, you have a lower expertise cap, that's the trade off between arms and fury. Arms has a lower exp cap, fury has a lower hit cap. As soon as you have both of those, especially once you have them passively, then you regem for armor pen or str, whatever your gear calls for.
A lot of the guides you'll read will say "oh yeah definitely gem for armor pen" or "str is the way to go", but the fact of the matter is, being a dps warrior of either spec is completely dependent on what YOUR specific gear setup is. There are no absolutes, only what your gear gives you. Yes str may be the best thing to stack for fury, but if you're not expertise capped, an expertise gem will actually yield more dps than a str gem until you are capped.
Hope this helps a little.
it would be 40%, not 35% to hit the arp cap with a trinket proc. 40% from gear + 10% from battle stance + 49.7% from grim toll/runestone proc = 99.7%
20% from fully sundered target, 35% actually puts you over the armor pen cap.
that is valid, however, if there is no warrior stacking sunders.
i thought you weren't supposed to count sunders towards your arp cap since your arp rating works towards the armor left after armor reduction effects.
i.e. a boss has 10,000 armor, 5 sunders will reduce that to 8,000, leaving your arp rating to only have to deal with 8k armor so you need 100% personal arp rating to ignore that 8k armor.
You may be right, my info may be slightly out of date, last i read they counted together, that the personal ArP rating stacks with sunder toward the total armor before sunders are applied.
Hmmm I re-gemmed +16str gems before you guys posted!! Damnit!
I'm now +16str gemmed with 25.57% armor pen with Battle Stance..
We'll see I guess.
OKAY now after further looking into it i'm actually doing very good in the ARP department.
15.75% ARP from gear. 10% from battle stance, 15% from weapon mastery thru mace.
I end up with 45.75% total ARP, now I can probably live for now just fine with gemming all Strength gems for now, I just need to get something that is going to up my Hit.
Any good pieces that are easy to get?
Last edited by Sray; 07-26-2009 at 05:52 PM.
armor pen and armor reduction effects are multiplicative, basically meaning sunders, faerie fire, and shattering throw count before your arp rating. and your arp rating deals with the armor after those effects.
at least that's how ive understood it.
Simple ArPen calculator
This is your best tool to figure our your armor pen and your buffs.
And as arms, it is still worth it very much so to stack arp even after you hit the cap with your trinket up due to the fact that you do not control your trinket procs and the trinket does not have anywhere near a 100% uptime.
I much prefer stacking 100% passive arp, and loseing the arp trinket.
Alright, so if I got this correct, if I am fury (which from how much more fun I am having with it than arms I am going to be staying) I dont want to stack armpen even though with gear I have 30%? I should move all gemming to fury to Str?
str always yields more dps than armor pen as fury, period, armor pen as fury should be passive.
I have one quesiton.
I have 30% ArP in Battle Stance.... then I swich to Defensive and I still have 30% then go to zerker and 30%.... so.... 10% in battle stance, is it passive? cuz I dont see it on my ArP Number.
yes the 10% is not included in your stat sheet. that's why when people say 30% innate ArP from gear, they mean that stat sheet number... because no sunders, no battlestance, nothing. Just pure unadulterated ArP from your gear.
As per my knowledge bosses scale upto 13.5K armor. In addition, one of the ArP discussion forums Ghostcrawler did mention 100% ArP doesn't mean 100% Armor neglected! As the tool tip says it's always" Upto X% of armor ignored, but not X% of armor ignored" (there is a difference); But still that 'upto' might not constitute for a very major percentage that is not being ignored. If you are still sittign @ 100% proc's u are at least always sitting @ somewhere between 85-95% overall ArP rating
There are some forums which discusses about ArP mechanisms on mobs and raid bosses which you can find in Blizz forums (Warrior class forums)