Blood DK Tank Discussion

[bloodomen]

I personally enjoy being a blood death knight tank. I've never had a problem with aggro or taking large damage at all and in the end still dish out enough dps with the rest of them.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Here's my armory. Check for yourself. Blood dk tanks deserve alot more credit, try for yourself and see.

[Synnz]

I am a Blood DK Tank and I have been from the start of building my DK. Since the patch I have played around a bit and I have found the talents that I think work pretty well.

My Talents are as follows:

Blood (50 points)

3/3 Subversion
5/5 Blade Barrier
5/5 Bladed Armor
2/2 Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
1/1 Rune Tap
5/5 Dark Conviction
3/3 Improved Rune Tap
3/3 Spell Deflection
3/3 Bloody Strikes
3/3 Veteran of the Third War
1/1 Mark of Blood
3/3 Bloody Vengeance
2/2 Abomination's Might
2/2 Improved Death Strike
1/1 Vampiric Blood
3/3 Will of the Necropolis
1/1 Heart Strike
2/3 Might of Mograine
5/5 Blood Gorged

Frost (5 points)

5/5 Toughness

Unholy (13 points)

5/5 Anticipation
3/3 Morbidity
2/2 Unholy Command
3/3 Ravenous Dead

Now you might ask a few questions like why Ravenous Dead. Well the reason for this is because of Forceful Deflection which is a passive skill. It increases your parry rating by 25% of your total strength. Also Ravenous Dead dead states Ghouls. So this includes Army of the Dead.

Next might be why Unholy Command? Well that is plain and simple. The faster it cools down the faster I have another taunt. As I see it I have only 2 taunts. Dark Command and Death Grip. So I always want to make sure one if not both are ready as fast as possible.

My Blood DK tank has 33986 health unbuffed. Raid buffed close to 45k health (44+K something) With having much more health then frost or unholy tanks makes up in my opinion for not having unbreakable armor or bone shield. While they have that extra armor for 20 seconds with unbreakable armor I can pop vampyric blood and boost my health to over 51K for 20 seconds and allows for healers to heal me for 35% more then normal. I also have the chance of popping rune tap if need be to also help them keep me healed.

I will not say one tree is better then the other but each tree is better a tanking rolls. Blood is great for single target tanking like Sarth and we make the perfect hateful strike tank.

Frost is great for add tanking because of how they can multi threat with howling blast and Hungering Cold. They make very good add tanks on Gulth and the zombie chow.

Unholy... I really do not know. I mainly only know players that DPS in unholy.

[Crossied]

While I was leveling my dk I was unholy...for dps of course, then when I hit 80 I speced to frost and started to tank. I was doing great with tanking but when the patch came out blizz nurfed frost for tanking (imo) so I started to look for other options. I was just looking at the blood tree and noticed some really nice things in there that I could use for tanking. So I started to build my talents and this is what I came up with.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I never have a problem with threat and I have been MT for all of naxx 10 and 25man. I have also tanked 8 bosses in 10man Ulduar and still no problems with threat. Some of the dps inspect me and haggle me for being a tank in blood......untill they see me tank, and the healers really like it. For instance I was tanking Ignus and I was able to tank him fairly easy even though he already had a %90 damage increase (from that many adds being out). If you have any questions about my build or rotation feel free to reply back. Here is my armory in case you wanted to see what gear im in.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I have 29k HP unbuffed, I also do about 2.8k dps in naxx25.

I also don't use Obliterate because while in blood spec it comsumes the diseases.....instead I use death strike. Plus with the spec I have death strike hit's a little harder then OB does, and the heals are nice.

[Vizarde]

Blood (50 points)

5/5 Blade Barrier
5/5 Bladed Armor
2/2 Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
1/1 Rune Tap
5/5 Dark Conviction
3/3 Death Rune Mastery
3/3 Improved Rune Tap
3/3 Spell Deflection
3/3 Bloody Strikes
3/3 Veteran of the Third War
1/1 Mark of Blood
3/3 Bloody Vengeance
2/2 Abomination's Might
1/3 Bloodworms
1/1 Vampiric Blood
1/1 Heart Strike
3/3 Might of Mograine
5/5 Blood Gorged

You forgot the 1/3 Sudden Doom. Also I'm a frost tank and have never tried blood because my guild wants me as a AoE tank specifically but for encounters like OS3D and such I'd like to give blood a whirl. I like the idea of Glyph of Rune Tap tho that would help the raid out alot.

[Evic]

Ive been tanking on my dk since i hit 80. ive tanked almost all content(new to ulduar).since i started ive been a frost spec and was pretty happy with it until i noticed some of the well geared dps was starting to push me pretty hard on single target threat.I did some reading and liked some of the blood tanking ideas so i figured id try it out. I love it i wont be going back to frost i rip single target threat, only issue is AOE threat isnt as good as frost or unholy but when raiding there is a MT and OT(or more if 25 mans) so if between the 2 of you cant hold aggro there is most likely an issue with your tanks.

[Twilíght]

Well, here goes. I've recently started tanking 10man raids such as Vault of Archavon, Sartharion and I have also tried Naxx. I don't tend to have much time to be able to devote for doing raids so they have tended to be pushed to the back of the queue. I've used blood for leveling 55-80 and have kept the tree as it is the one i'm more comfortable with.
I have some un-needed talents taken for the time being, until I find a spec that works well.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

In the short time I have been raiding, I find this build works very well, along with the glyphs I have chosen - any minor glyphs you guys think are good please tell as I am stuck on those. It's curently done from memory as the armoury is under maintenance but I think I have it right.

Gear is mostly from heroics, some from raids and quests. I know there are many 'rate me' posts but any help would be much appreciated.

WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings

I find blood to be a good all-round spec, tanking included. The self-healing is certainly handy along with the glyphs. However I think it is more of a main tank build as the AOE is rather difficult when your main abilities are Blood Boil and Pestilence. I have OT'd many raids as this spec and once or twice I have taken aggro of a boss due to trying to take aggro of any adds that try to one-hit our healer so on that note I may have to tweak the build. I have tanked alongside (DK's) both frost and unholy, and it seems the frost had an easier time of it.

Everyone to themselves I guess, but in my opinion tanking in blood is the way to go. In current times anyway!

[Crono]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

That's the spec I currently use to tank with, and I find it to be superb. A lot of people don't like Scent of Blood, but I find it to be lifesaving due to the high avoidance I have. I use my JC gems to defense cap without Stoneskin Gargoyle and use Swordshattering on my weapon for the superior avoidance and the disarm reduction, which doesn't come into play often but is very useful when it does.

I've also tried this variation for blood tanking to make an easier time of AoE threat:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

But I also found myself incredibly RP starved trying to maintain Unholy Blight while having the avoidance I do; over half my melee attacks are Rune Strikes, which eats through RP faster than I could build it while I used that spec. If I could move a couple points in it to keep Scent of Blood, that spec may have been more viable.

Something like this would probably work all right if you didn't mind dropping a couple of the situational cooldowns blood has to offer:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

in order to accept a slight boost in AoE threat, if you find yourself having a problem with it. Personally, with the buff to Blood Boil, I don't have any issues with AoE threat when I pair that with DnD.

This is my current gear and enchant list:

WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings

I find it to personally be more of a main tanking role as a blood tank, with superior single or dual target threat due to Heart Strike and Death Strike is outstanding when talented. Frost and Unholy both strike me as more of an offtank/trash tank, much like paladins are being used as right now. (Just from personal experience, paladins still make excellent MT's as well but they aren't utilized as such as often as other tanks.)

[toonnamefail]

DK tanking to me is all about flavour and your own flavour of tanking can be represented in many ways. Basically each of the tree's have thier strength's and their weaknesses, blood obviously supports high EH (Effective health) and high single target TPS (Threat Per Second) however it has the weakest AoE threat by far when compared to Frost or Unholy.

@Twilight
I'm confused at what you are trying to achieve with your tank spec because it focus on neither single target tps nor AoE and not a lot of your talents compliment each other, so if you could repost your intentions on tanking I can better assess the situation for you.

@Crono
I understand your problem, Blood AoE threat is very poor in comparison to it's sister trees but at the same time is still manageable. If any DK tank wants to boost AoE threat i would highly suggest just respeccing Unholy as trying to spec AoE for blood will seriously gimp your ST threat. Your 3rd spec for EG looses a LOT of threat via Subversion/MoM/Blood Gorged to gain Necrosis/UB which is still pretty weak AoE threat boost as is.


My spec is purely around single target tps as I'm finding now that the DPS are starting to pull some serious numbers and riding quite a fine line on gimmick encouters. My build is a little different to most I've seen so feel free to critique as you see fit!

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Things I didnt take are;

Rune Tap - Whilst blood does focus a little around self healing it's still the healer's job to heal not you. I find this far to situational and the only time I would need to use it I find my healers have me covered anyway

Mark of Blood - Useless with high level's of avoidance against slow big hitting bosses (pretty much ALL of ulduar)

Spell Deflection - Far too situational for it to be at all dependable.

Abom's Might - I have a blood dps DK and enh shaman in the raid at all times so the strength alone investment is not enough for me to want to take it.

Imp BP/Bloodworms - Healing is incredibly minimal and provides 0 tps increase

Dropping the above talents allowed me to get 4/5 Necrosis which boosts my single target tps (the point of the spec). I've also glyphed for max tps as well, I honestly don't see how or why anyone would want to glyph VB. The situations when I use it the threat that required me to use it is often over before the duration.

[Vanthus]

Dropping the above talents allowed me to get 4/5 Necrosis which boosts my single target tps (the point of the spec). I've also glyphed for max tps as well, I honestly don't see how or why anyone would want to glyph VB. The situations when I use it the threat that required me to use it is often over before the duration.

You might try going into the frost line and grab Icy Talons rather than Necrosis under unholy. I found that to give me higher single target dps/threat.
I do also find it interesting that you find Rune Tap and Spell Deflection to be too situational but not WotN.

[Twilíght]

@Twilight
I'm confused at what you are trying to achieve with your tank spec because it focus on neither single target tps nor AoE and not a lot of your talents compliment each other, so if you could repost your intentions on tanking I can better assess the situation for you.

Well basically since the recent patches my talents have become ******.
Due to raiders placing you where they want you to best compliment themselves, paying no attention to what you are specced for I have often had to become an OT and MT. The original build was just a tank for hc's, normal dungeons and easy questing. I have tried many variations and this seems to work best at all. Of course it has to become more specific for me to work to my best ability but as standards rise and drop with each raid it will have to do for the time being.

Currently I am unable to access WoW due to exams etc. however it gives me the time to check up sites such as Tankspot I had previously not much attention for, to find a good build, acquire gear, decide what to do with my guild and more outstanding as it may be, to make the decision whether or not to cancel my account.

Overall i'm very undecided upon tanking and have often considered switching to DPS. The only way I can find a build to suit me is to spend money which I do not have.
Any help would be greatly apreciated!!

[toonnamefail]

You might try going into the frost line and grab Icy Talons rather than Necrosis under unholy. I found that to give me higher single target dps/threat.
I do also find it interesting that you find Rune Tap and Spell Deflection to be too situational but not WotN.

15% more damage to an ability thats weak in my spec and I use once every 20s vs 16% more damage to my autoattacks. I havn't done the math but figures from last nights raid according to WoL are

Icy Touch - 101825
Necrosis - 249605

Find it hard that IIT is going to outperform Necrosis (even point for point) when necrosis is doing more damange then the ENTIRE ability let along the minimal 15% boost

Runetap doesn't provide mitigation in anyway shape or form it can heal you after you take a large spike but most times that small heal is just going to cause my healers to gain overheal. Spell Deflection I've read (not tested) only has a real use on Mimiron p1 which you realistically should have 0 trouble with anyway whilst chaining through your own CD's or healers. If it worked on things like Frozen Blows or Fusion Punch than maybe I could see myself spending 3 talent points on it.

WotN on the other hand... I can see where you are coming from, its not a MIND BLOWING talent but I can see it's use far beyond that of Spell Deflection. There are a vast number of bosses in ulduar who are capable (and do) take my health to a point where WoTN will kick in, basically I just see more uses for it then SD tbh.

@Twilight
I found frost to be by far the best spec for earlier tanking heroics and such (particularly pugs) simply because of HB. All heroics are just AoE fests and I find most classes don't want to give you time to set up good AoE threat (mine is pretty weak at best) but that is where HB shines with its snap AoE threat especially with Deathchill. The build also has more passive mitigation which will make you a little less of a mana sponge. Moving forward into raiding there are more things you need to consider and these are;

What is the usual raid makeup? (Caster Heavy, Melee Heavy?)
What other support buffs aren't covered that you can? (AB, IIT, EP?)
What other tanks are present to most raids (Bears, Warriors, Protadins?)

And of course personal preference does come into play, I raid blood but when we step up to things like Thorim Arena i'll run my Unholy offspec which has godlike AoE (Pull nearly 5k dps on that fight) because we have no pally tanks.

But dnt give up, DK tanking is a lot of fun, I played a lock for 2+ years and leveled them both through northrend simultaneously and when I hit 75 and started tanking on my DK i never looked back (poor lock is still 74). Hope this helped mate, if you want some specs I'm sure I can round some up for you.

[Twilíght]

You certainly have helped. I used to raid with my guild but since the raid leader left because the times weren't suiting him ( . . . . am I the only one who finds this strange?) i'll probably end up with PUGs, unless I join a full raiding guild but that's a whole other forum topic.
On that train of thought it would be much easier if I got a spec that was more centered around the needs of either an MT (preferably) or an OT rather than trying to fill both roles.
Thanks.

[Trojan]

I have been blood tanking since 3.0.8 and haven't looked back until we hit General last night in 25 man. Now I may look at a few different spec's. For TPS on a single target and cd's you can't really beat it imo

[Vanthus]

15% more damage to an ability thats weak in my spec and I use once every 20s vs 16% more damage to my autoattacks. I havn't done the math but figures from last nights raid according to WoL are

Icy Touch - 101825
Necrosis - 249605

Find it hard that IIT is going to outperform Necrosis (even point for point) when necrosis is doing more damange then the ENTIRE ability let along the minimal 15% boost

I am not speaking of just IIT vs. Necrosis. I am talking about the 5 points in Icy Talons (20% haste).

I chose Icy Talons as a tank because they not only increase the amount of melee attacks, but they also increase the amount of Rune Strikes. Necrosis does not work with Rune Strike. I'd really love to have both, but can't and also have 5/5 Blood Gorged.

Based on these facts I found that IIT and Icy Talons together are more DPS for me than going into Necrosis.
Even on the training dummy I found that Icy Talons seemed to beat the Necrosis (I had to calculate and add the necrosis damage in...stupid 1 damage bug). I am starting to pull over 2k DPS single target on VOA trash and such in full tank gear in frost presence.

Your results may vary.

[toonnamefail]

You should have read my OP a little more clearly, I have an enh shaman who has a near perfect attendance record providing me 20% haste to putting an extra 2 points into frost is a sheer waste (Points needed to get to tier 3), also this why I didn't put any points into Abom's Might seeing as it is only a 2% strength increase for me.

For the record I'm 99.9% sure necrosis affects rune strike as well. Without SoB do you find yourself RP starved?? I find that even with 2/3 points and having RS bound to every major ability I can still never get RP capped and fights like vezax/mim I have to unbind a few just so I can have that spare RP to IBF/AMS/Mind Freeze.

@Twilight
Sounds to me like a Deep Frost spec is what your looking for, something like;

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft[/URL]"]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EbZhxxxA0Izc0iost0x

There are a lot of variants you can choose with this spec, but the above can be like a shell which you can move a few points around in. Glyph's typically you will want to run Oblit/FS and then either HB or IT, depends on your playstyle I guess.

[Vanthus]

You should have read my OP a little more clearly, I have an enh shaman who has a near perfect attendance record providing me 20% haste to putting an extra 2 points into frost is a sheer waste (Points needed to get to tier 3), also this why I didn't put any points into Abom's Might seeing as it is only a 2% strength increase for me.

For the record I'm 99.9% sure necrosis affects rune strike as well. Without SoB do you find yourself RP starved?? I find that even with 2/3 points and having RS bound to every major ability I can still never get RP capped and fights like vezax/mim I have to unbind a few just so I can have that spare RP to IBF/AMS/Mind Freeze.

You are right. Necrosis does work with Rune Strike (I have no idea it didn't seem like it in previous tests).
Since the Necrosis build is close to the same DPS as the Icy Talon build, I will try switching to the Necrosis one, so that if I get into a raid with a Shaman I will get an additional buff. I get about 1400 - 1450 DPS on the boss training dummy (Darnassus one so Necrosis actually works).
I do find issues with RP. I am going to try without Spell Deflection (though I notice it procs a lot) and go 2/3 SoB. One thing I thought of is to work Horn of Winter into rotations during rune down time.
My new rotation I am trying is:
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-DC-HoW-DS-HS-HS-HS-HS - repeat

[toonnamefail]

Kool beans, you've actually kinda inspired me to maybe tweak my spec just a touch more by dropping WotN.... maybe. Anyone where have some form of definitive post about how useless WotN really is, glancing at it and I'm starting to probably see the light on it being a pretty weak talent when i could be putting another point into SD maxing out Necrosis and then 1 into BCB to boost ST threat again!

I guess it just doesn't bode well with me having a tank talent so far up the tree and not see it get used!

Or......


Maybe I should switch back to frost, although UA is crapola when compared to VB and i do very much like self hysteria on the pull for a good threat burst on those gimmick fights!

[timtim89]

Can i ask which glyphs do u use?

[Crono]

Can i ask which glyphs do u use?

For Blood tanking, I prefer using Death Strike (increased damage, and therefore threat), Disease (resets timer when you use Pestilence, so 1 rune instead of 2 on single target and 1 rune instead of 3 on multiple targets), and Death and Decay (Increased damage, therefore threat).

Death and Decay is the only one I'm not sure on, some like Rune Strike, some prefer Dark Death. I use Death and Decay to offset the weakness in AoE threat that most blood spec tanks seem to have. Some also like the glyph for Vampiric Blood for the increased uptime, and some use Icy Touch for the runic power gained, but using the Disease glyph, you should only be using Icy Touch at the start of the fight barring any interruptions, so I find that one mostly useless. Rune Tap can also be used if you choose to spec into it for some extra healing.

If you choose to go a bit more into Unholy for it, Unholy Blight isn't a bad investment glyph-wise either.

[Vanthus]

Disease (resets timer when you use Pestilence, so 1 rune instead of 2 on single target and 1 rune instead of 3 on multiple targets),

Can I ask what rotation you use with Disease glyph? I tried and tried with this glyph but could not find a good rotation. The Death Strikes cause different death runes to activate at different times, so each rotation is different from the last.
Furthermore since Pest is on Spell hit, it would miss frequently and would royally screw things up. I would have 2 frost runes up and 2 death runes waiting to pop so neither DS nor HS would work. The end result is I lost about 300 DPS for no reason other than rotation.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but in practice I think a steady rotation ends up being higher DPS than the oddball one required for the Disease glyph.