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Thread: Blood DK Tank Discussion

  1. #1
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    Blood DK Tank Discussion

    It is my opinion that all DK specs, as long as they take their respective tank talents, can MT in all situations.

    This is a thread I am creating in the hopes of discussion tanking as a Blood DK.

    Firstly I want to mention that it is my view that DK's are the only true avoidance tank. What do I mean by this? Simple. We get nothing from being struck (unless you have the Scent of Blood talent, but thats a silly talent.) Unlike Warriors or Druids who get Rage, or Paladins who can generate threat via Blocks and Aura's, Death Knights get no real benefit from being struck in the first place. Thus, its in our best interest to not get hit in the first place.

    I feel that each tree deals with the inevitable hits in a different way. Frost and Unholy both mitigate them via abilities (Unbreakable Armor, and Bone Armor) while Blood tries to heal it back via things like Vampiric Blood and Rune Tap.

    Once I came to this conclusion I realized that there is no significant difference between the trees. I mean, all three can generate the threat, and with the right kind of gear we can hopefully survive most attacks. Sure, Unholy and Frost are going to have an easier time by mitigating the damage via their abilities (Once again, Unbreakable Armor and Bone Armor) but that does not mean that Blood cannot stack up.

    Blood gets a few abilities that can help out in a pinch. Like all DKs we get Icebound Fortitude. That lasts 12 seconds for us (unlike 18 for Frost), and in addition to that we also have Mark of Blood, Rune Tap, and Vampiric Blood. These three talents are in my opinion the cornerstone of Blood Tanking. With Rune Tap and Improved Rune Tap you give yourself a 30 sec cooldown / 20% Max HP Heal. You can even add a glyph to heal your group for 10% of their max HP which could generate threat for you (I assume since you are healing you get the healing threat).

    Mark of Blood makes it harder for the target to kill you as they are constantly healing part of the damage that they are inflicting. And if worse comes to worse, you hit Vampiric Blood and make all the heals even more effective.

    You can also add Bloodworms in if you want for some random healing, but in a tanking situation I do not believe they are going to be THAT effective. Now of course, in any spec you are going to need the "Tanking 15" as I have taken to calling them.

    5 points in Blade Barrier in Blood
    5 points in Toughness in Frost
    5 points in Anticipation in Unholy.

    Those 15 points are almost always needed for a DK Tank regardless of spec.

    After some careful thought, here is what I have come up with for Tanking as Blood, doing 10 man / 5 man / Heroics.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    And for those who cannot access WoWHead:

    Blood (50 points)

    5/5 Blade Barrier
    5/5 Bladed Armor
    2/2 Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
    1/1 Rune Tap
    5/5 Dark Conviction
    3/3 Death Rune Mastery
    3/3 Improved Rune Tap
    3/3 Spell Deflection
    3/3 Bloody Strikes
    3/3 Veteran of the Third War
    1/1 Mark of Blood
    3/3 Bloody Vengeance
    2/2 Abomination's Might
    1/3 Bloodworms
    1/1 Vampiric Blood
    1/1 Heart Strike
    3/3 Might of Mograine
    5/5 Blood Gorged

    Frost (11 points)

    3/3 Improved Icy Touch
    2/2 Glacier Rot
    5/5 Toughness
    1/1 Lichborne

    Unholy (10 points)

    3/3 Morbidity
    5/5 Anticipation
    2/2 Epidemic

    So, any thoughts my fellow Blood DK's would like to add?

  2. #2
    My DK tanks quite happily as frost spec but this is an interesting idea. I think my biggest advantage (As frost) is the stuns i.e. hungering cold. Does blood have a similar way to shut down an opponent while you bandage?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ussnorway View Post
    My DK tanks quite happily as frost spec but this is an interesting idea. I think my biggest advantage (As frost) is the stuns i.e. hungering cold. Does blood have a similar way to shut down an opponent while you bandage?
    No Blood doesn't have a stun. However, Blood does have Rune Tap / Improved Rune Tap.

    With those 4 talent points Blood gets a heal for 20% of its Max Health every 30 seconds. So I have a built in heal. And if I need to I can activate Vampiric Blood to make ALL forms of healing 50% more effective on me for 20 seconds.

  4. #4
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    Well i agree to what your thinking.. been looking at the blood build for tanking after reading what you writ i was wondering why didn't you use points in will of the necroplis?

    i came up with a talent build that uses the tanking 15 and the will of the necropolis

    55/11/5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyse View Post
    Well i agree to what your thinking.. been looking at the blood build for tanking after reading what you writ i was wondering why didn't you use points in will of the necroplis?

    i came up with a talent build that uses the tanking 15 and the will of the necropolis

    55/11/5
    Will of the Necropolis seems too situational for me. I mean, I would have to hit 35% or lower health for the armor boost to even kick in, and I feel that there are other more useful talents. The reduced cooldown on Anti Magic Shell is ok but it wouldnt make a HUGE difference to me.

    If you like Will of the Necropolis and find it useful then go for it obviously. I mean it is a tanking talent. I just personally don't think its too great

  6. #6
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    The only worry I have about the spec is that you're relying a LOT on Rune Tap for that heal (as well as extra heals from healer) however mitigation is still king (isnt it?)

    However my favorite spec is Blood and I will try the spec out =)

    I made a post about different specs and just DK tanking in general if you wanna check it out/add input.

    Also do you not miss Annihilation for spamming Obliterate = more Death Runes?

  7. #7
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    Just to add to this, if you get the Death Strike glyph and allow yourself to remain partially if not completely maxed on runic power, you heal yourself for a tremendous amount of health each time you Death Strike. Perhaps something to think about when tanking as Blood.

  8. #8
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    Hi, just my 2 cents, here it goes.

    I've tanked every boss on Naxx 25 as Blood without any problems at all. Have never died on a boss there.

    Few days ago while doing Patchwerk as a Hateful tank, i got hit by 500k damage compared to the druid tank that took 1.000k damage and the MT that took 650k damaged. Sounds pretty good and i dont even have a single point in anticipation.

    I agree that whatever specc you feel most confortable with, that's your specc and you should tank with it. So i did.

    I wanted to try tanking and maintain an arena survivability specc. I think i've done that or am really close to doing it. Above all i intend to have fun and so far being able to use the same specc for different functions is about the most fun i've ever had in WoW to the date.

    On some talents (based on my experience raidwise):

    - Death Strike isn't required if you got good healing, use Obliterate for some more DMG. though on heroics it's usefull.

    - Got Blood tap and imp Blood tap, but tbh, my HP rarely drops that low (32k unbuffed).

    - Using Sudden Doom is good for getting some extra threat and when Death Coil is used together with Lichborne and a dodge trinket, Sudden allows this combination of talents to be a very good "Oh Shit" Button. Another "Oh shit" button you can create is using IF along with Blood mark and Vampiric Blood but things shouldn't come to that... They might on Patchwerk and "Max".

    There are also some talents i use specialy for arenas there, but they dont harm my tanking that much tbh. i would even like to get hysteria (for arenas, anti sap and poly ftw), but have to think about what to sacrifice...

  9. #9
    You've taken Epidemic, while no Annihilation. You're diseases wont really be up that long through every rotation (Blood rotation consisting of IT PS HS HS OB -> IT PS HS HS HS HS. Rinse and repeat.)
    First thing I noticed, but havent really looked into anything else - Not entirely fussed on blood til next patch.

    Until next patch, I'd say Blood isn't too comparable to the other trees, so I'll wait til after then to post any test results / findings.

  10. #10
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    I leveled dps blood and have been tanking as blood since I hit 80, I've respecced frost and unholy and didnt care for either of them. I'm usually an ot for heroic naxx but I have mted several bosses and have no problems with survivability or threat. My usual spec is Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    Will of necropolis is bad in its current for, in the next patch it will be buffed but even then it wont be spectacular and tbh unneeded with the content that is currently out.

    Rune tap is nice and while leveling it was amazing but once i began raid tanking I found I hardly ever needed to use it and when I did pop it a heal landed. I suppose with some coordination over vent I could possibly same my healers a bit of mana but imo not really worth the talent points.

    I've never liked mark of blood, the cd is too long and as avoidance tanks an ability that heals me when a boss lands an attack never really made sense to me.

    Vampiric Blood is amazing. Not really much else to say. It will be even better next patch when it can be kept up 50% of the time (glyphed), the xtra healing is being lowered to 35% but it will also add 15% hp.

    The only real problems I'm starting to see is aoe threat, after tossing down a dnd and pestilence blood is pretty much done. You're basically down to tabbing thro targets death coiling and heart striking. In raids I find stuff dies quickly enough for this not to be so much of a problem but on Noth it can be somewhat problematic, more so on normal. Completely doable now and even more so next patch when pestilence cd will be removed and its 30% dmg buff gets moved into the blood tree. Cleave strike will also ensure blood doesn't have too difficult a time aoe tanking.

    From my experience blood is fine for tanking but does require a little more attention that unholy or blood while aoe tanking. It pretty much come down to the player. I've always enjoyed playing blood, I suspect its cause I played a rogue thro t5 and was a prot warrior in t6/sunwell and havent really been able to get into anything that wasnt physical melee dps and blood seems to lean that way a bit closer that the other trees.

  11. #11
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    Hi everyone!

    I'm not 80 yet so I'm still a dps for now but my aim is to tank when I reach the 80th level. So I started to look at talent trees for that and as I'm more interested in blood tanking than frost or unholy one (plus I'd be the first one in my guild so I could test), I built some talent tree and would like to get your opinion about it. Here it is, thanks for your time:
    Ekimus talent build

  12. #12
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    For me, I felt blood was too squishy and that I didnt want to rely on healing.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    My spec is built around frost's "mitigation" and dps with bloods increased str and stam with some oh shit heals if needed. Great for soloing.

  13. #13
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    Let me start off by saying that I HATE blood for tanking..... unfortunately with the nerfs to Unholy, I think Blood is the safest tree for tanking Sartharion 3D. The following build emphasizes Max HP for surviving the breaths, WotN guarantees that the breaths will always be mitigated.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    God I hate blood....

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  14. #14
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    Threat issues?

    I have been tanking as frost since ding 80 and I have no problem at all with threat. But with the 3.0.8 coming out I wanted to try blood. So I respecced and began testing. It didnt seem I could hold agro at all. My TPS was at 2300 range. I do realize I am not as geared as most of you guys and I do realize that I am not as experienced as you all but I am open to ideas. I went back to frost and I am happy with it and am back to my 3500 to 4k TPS. But I see a lot of people asking this type of question. Do you have threat issues in blood?

    My Armory Link

    thanks
    B

  15. #15
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    I liked the OP's listed spec but now that 0.8 came out and there are some major buffs to blood I came up with this one

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    53/8/10

    I'm personally rollin deep in the blood spec atm and loving every minute of it.

    I didn't like hysteria as my old spec because my rune tap wasn't big enough to cover the 20% damage I take but now that rune tap nullifies it.

    I have recently tanked nearly impossible scenarios for much longer than my raid expected me to. Such as patchwerk with no other melee in range for three minutes until the enrage timer kicked in and he plastered me to the floor. Same goes for Instructor while the understudies were being heavily healed.

  16. #16
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    Single target threat is where Blood excells. My opening rotation looks something like this. OB->IT->PS->HSx4->DS->HSx2->IT->PS with DC's worked in if Runes are on CD. DPS are no where near me on solo and dual pulls. AoE threat though.... it leaves something to be desired.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  17. #17
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    Help me understand your rotation, Inaara. You put diseases up at the end... only to take them down with OB? Or do you spend enough time dumping RP at that point that it makes sense?

    I ask because this looks pretty unconventional, but you seem to be having success with it.

  18. #18
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    there is something you also need to ask yourself.

    is the blood tree capable of doing nice aggro on single target and on aoe packs?


    also you loose 6 seconds of Icebound Fortitude which is important if you using cooldowns and dk tanking is all about using them

  19. #19
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    So after reading multiple forums, I decided to just try and throw together a blood tanking spec.

    I didnt get blood gorged because I figured I won't be over 75% health for the most part anyways, but then I realized I'd be missing 5 expertise.

    I'll note here that my tanking gear is by no means good. It's merely blues that I've aquired via rep and heroics.

    I'm debating whether to ditch IMP DnD and get Annihilation, or to get IMP DnD and use Death Strike to keep my self up and produce death runes for heart strike chains.
    I skipped Blood Aura as well simply because in raids, I figure there is probably one death knight thats going to end up speccing into it, and if not, it really isn't much of a loss.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    Thats the link to the build I made via wowhead calculators. Any help would be greatly appreciated =)
    Last edited by trô; 01-31-2009 at 03:35 AM. Reason: Seemed hard to read squished together

  20. #20
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    It's nice to finally have the option of stacking +stam instead of avoidance.
    Blood has outclassed unholy on Sarth3D, its much easier because of Will of the Necropolis.

    Although that fight is actually very harmful for a blood tank due to the hp reduction debuff, it reduces greatly the effects of all of bloods tank abilities, yet it remains the best spec due to WotN.

    Personally, I've spec'd blood since the patch and tanked pretty much everything there is and I find the current mechanic very strong if not borderline overpowered. Think about it, the more hp you have, the more powerful WotN, Rune Tap, Vampiric Blood and Mark of Blood, It scales perfectly.

    Fully raid buffed, when I hit Vamp, I get to 52k hp. That means that any hits under 18k hp is mitigated by an extra 15%. It also means that when in trouble, we can pop en instant 15k hp heal every 30 sec.

    What is it going to be with endgame gear in a few months? When better pieces/trinkets along with epic gems come out, Blood will scale better than frost/unholy due to the diminishing returns on avoidance.

    Now, I do see a problem with the current way the blood tree is build and the type of gear needed to make it work, its about threat.

    Frost has a superior Runic Dump and it's rotation has a lot of built in frost damage, reducing the effect of armor. Unholy is similar since it uses scourge strike (shadow dmg) but its runic dump is far from as good as frost.
    On the case of blood, we use mainly physical abilities, which we require expertise+armor pen to make better compared to the 2 other trees.

    It especially is noticable when AoE tanking, sure blood can do it, I've done it in Naxx last week and it wasnt too bad, but its nowhere as good as Frost/Unholy.

    I know that some people will comment how blood does ok threat, but its simply not true if you are mostly geared towards stamina.
    On single targets, the current way I use to fill the gap is a macro that uses Hysteria on myself and pops my Monarch Crab at the same time. Along with the Rune Strike Glyph it maximizes the damage/threat out of Rune Strikes while Hysteria is active.

    The following blood spec is what you want to use if you want to min/max your hp pool for fights like Sarth3D: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=112015050301

    Otherwise you can go grab Lichborne and Annihilation in the frost tree in order to maximize threat and gain an additional cooldown.
    Last edited by Alk; 01-31-2009 at 06:47 PM.

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