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Thread: Legacy of Thunder vs. Peacekeeper blade

  1. #1
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    Legacy of Thunder vs. Peacekeeper blade

    First of all, I dont usually put too much math into my tanking kit, cause most of the time its pretty obvious what Ill want. However, when I got the peacekeeper blade from ToC HC earlier today I started wondering.
    Equipping the peacekeeper blade unsocketed I lost .31% avoidance compared to the legacy of thunder.
    What my question now would be if the following math is correct..

    +20 defense rating is a yellow gem, which would give 4.065 defense.
    4.065 defense would mean (*0.04) 0.1626 dodge, parry and block.

    Now for the actual question. Does that mean my total avoidance would go up by 3*0.1626 = 0.4878% and leaving the peacekeeper blade at 0.1778% better avoidance?

    The dealbreaker for me, if Im right, unfortunately is that Im a dwarf and im not overcapped on expertise, meaning my expertise go further down because I have +5 expertise to maces, but not to swords fro racials.

    If It wherent for the expertise bit Id just socket the peacekeeper blade with +20 defense and test it rather than ask the question, but Ill save my epic gems for something more useful than confirming I wont use a weapon..
    Last edited by Mctankor; 12-19-2009 at 02:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    Nobody wanna correct (or confirm) my math?

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    gem peacekeeper with stam and use it.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    gem peacekeeper with stam and use it.
    and then I just lost 5 expertise..
    If I where not a dwarf, I might have done that, but I am.

    The question really is more about the math than wether I should use it or not. I can make the choice to use it perfectly fine if I know wether my math is right or not..

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    What gus is sayin' is don't worry about threat stats, focus on survivability and for that you gem stam.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    What gus is sayin' is don't worry about threat stats, focus on survivability and for that you gem stam.
    The question still is wethter the MATH is right right?
    Also, although people these days seem to think so, stamina is NOT the only way to survive..

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    Stam Czar says it is.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  8. #8
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    Instead of being a dick about it, how about just answering wether or not the math is right or just say you dont know if thats the case?

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    And your math is right, you yourself said peacekeeper blade is better avoidance, and if you gem it with stam you'll get about the same avoidance and more HPs as the other weapon, Expertise isn't THAT big of a deal, if it is just switch out some of your dodge gems for expertise.

    I actually just fully looked at your armory and I'd suggest some major overhauling of your setup in both gemming and spec. Those changes should make up for any threat loss issues in switching away from a mace. Check out http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/6...ing-guide.html. It's not JUST what I think about stuff, there's also links to all kinds of other gearing guides and such that will help you on your way. A lot of what I say is fairly established and accepted practices too. The only thing I don't have is a good EH vs. Avoidance thread because most of them end up pretty bloody and or tangential and you've really got to dig through them to get at the information you want. Its generally accepted though that stam is what you stack for the most survivability.

    Sorry if my answers sound dickish, I'm having to stay late at work which means I will have been here for 15+ hours and I am slipping into sleep depravation. I can get a little loopy around this time.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    And your math is right, you yourself said peacekeeper blade is better avoidance, and if you gem it with stam you'll get about the same avoidance and more HPs as the other weapon, Expertise isn't THAT big of a deal, if it is just switch out some of your dodge gems for expertise.

    I actually just fully looked at your armory and I'd suggest some major overhauling of your setup in both gemming and spec. Those changes should make up for any threat loss issues in switching away from a mace. Check out http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/6...ing-guide.html. It's not JUST what I think about stuff, there's also links to all kinds of other gearing guides and such that will help you on your way. A lot of what I say is fairly established and accepted practices too. The only thing I don't have is a good EH vs. Avoidance thread because most of them end up pretty bloody and or tangential and you've really got to dig through them to get at the information you want. Its generally accepted though that stam is what you stack for the most survivability.

    Sorry if my answers sound dickish, I'm having to stay late at work which means I will have been here for 15+ hours and I am slipping into sleep depravation. I can get a little loopy around this time.
    What I said was the peacekeeper blade is .31 LESS avoidance unsocketed, but .1778% more socketed with +20 defense.
    Which means the sockets already gone (1 yellow).

    I will not overhaul my specc nor gems. Theire as they are for several reasons, mainly because after trying a few different things, it actually WORKS the way ive set it up now, believe it or not.
    Sure, I have a few bosses left to down, but without a steady and well geared raid team (although people are slowly getting there) I cba.

    Its generally accepted that stamina is what you stack for survivablility because people puging raids think that HP = skill and want people with 40k+ HP unbuffed for onyxia totally disregarding the fact that getting hit less decrease the workload for the healers a great deal.
    Theoretically you can make sure that you are not even hit by the vast majority of the swings made at you and that the ones that DOES hit you never do full damage..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mctankor View Post

    Its generally accepted that stamina is what you stack for survivablility because people puging raids think that HP = skill and want people with 40k+ HP unbuffed for onyxia totally disregarding the fact that getting hit less decrease the workload for the healers a great deal.
    Theoretically you can make sure that you are not even hit by the vast majority of the swings made at you and that the ones that DOES hit you never do full damage..
    No offense dude, but I have tanked every single encounter in the game (except for prenerf sunwell, but did clear it before WOTLK hit, and didn't have my warrior in vanilla I also haven't done ICC25 stuff because I haven't had a chance to yet b/c RL has been hellish for me this month). Hardmode and easymode. I can tell you from personal experience and from the TON of learning I've done from this community that stacking stam is not just because PuGs want high HP tanks, sir. I truly post here to help, if you don't want to take my advice then so be it, but please, at least hear it out, and follow the many many other links there that are available that talk about all kinds of different aspects and philosophies. If for what you are doing now what you have works, fine, but... well... it's good advice, I suggest you give it some thought between completely blowing me off.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    No offense dude, but I have tanked every single encounter in the game (except for prenerf sunwell, but did clear it before WOTLK hit, and didn't have my warrior in vanilla I also haven't done ICC25 stuff because I haven't had a chance to yet b/c RL has been hellish for me this month). Hardmode and easymode. I can tell you from personal experience and from the TON of learning I've done from this community that stacking stam is not just because PuGs want high HP tanks, sir. I truly post here to help, if you don't want to take my advice then so be it, but please, at least hear it out, and follow the many many other links there that are available that talk about all kinds of different aspects and philosophies. If for what you are doing now what you have works, fine, but... well... it's good advice, I suggest you give it some thought between completely blowing me off.
    I asked a specific question about the math, and you just started off with "ignore anything else than stamina".
    The fact that someone set up their character different than you and maybe in some ways different than "commonly accepted" dont mean theres no thought, experience or reason behind it. It was "commonly accepted" that the world was flat a while back, remember?
    If I wanted advice on my specc or gems Id ask for it. I asked wether or not my math was right, not everything else..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mctankor View Post

    +20 defense rating is a yellow gem, which would give 4.065 defense.
    4.065 defense would mean (*0.04) 0.1626 dodge, parry and block.

    Now for the actual question. Does that mean my total avoidance would go up by 3*0.1626 = 0.4878% and leaving the peacekeeper blade at 0.1778% better avoidance?
    First of all, you forgot to take miss in to account and I wouldn't count block as avoidance, I'd say it's mitigation. But I guess you can call it what you want. The math is correct but you need to take dimishing return in to account.

    I would also like to side with Aggathon and say that you should take a look at his guide. Just because something is working doesn't mean it can't get better. I'm pretty confident I could tank more or less all current content without pants, but that doesn't mean I run around in my undewear.
    The only reason that you're conscious right now is because I don't want to carry you.

  14. #14
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    what about tanking without pants irl?
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    what about tanking without pants irl?

    I dont understand the question? Everyone know pants just exists in-game...
    The only reason that you're conscious right now is because I don't want to carry you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashor View Post
    First of all, you forgot to take miss in to account and I wouldn't count block as avoidance, I'd say it's mitigation. But I guess you can call it what you want. The math is correct but you need to take dimishing return in to account.

    I would also like to side with Aggathon and say that you should take a look at his guide. Just because something is working doesn't mean it can't get better. I'm pretty confident I could tank more or less all current content without pants, but that doesn't mean I run around in my undewear.
    The formulas for avoiding damage counts block thats all.
    So i what I would in effect get from a +20 defense gem would then be
    Miss: 0,1626
    Dodge: 0,1626
    Parry: 0,1626
    Block: 0,1626
    Total 0,6504% added avoidance (0,4878% if youre ignoring block)?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mctankor View Post
    The formulas for avoiding damage counts block thats all.
    So i what I would in effect get from a +20 defense gem would then be
    Miss: 0,1626
    Dodge: 0,1626
    Parry: 0,1626
    Block: 0,1626
    Total 0,6504% added avoidance (0,4878% if youre ignoring block)?

    Before dimishing returns, yes.
    The only reason that you're conscious right now is because I don't want to carry you.

  18. #18
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    Yeah, thats what I needed to know, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mctankor View Post
    I asked a specific question about the math, and you just started off with "ignore anything else than stamina".
    The fact that someone set up their character different than you and maybe in some ways different than "commonly accepted" dont mean theres no thought, experience or reason behind it. It was "commonly accepted" that the world was flat a while back, remember?
    If I wanted advice on my specc or gems Id ask for it. I asked wether or not my math was right, not everything else..
    If you're going to post a gear question--whether you think you're just asking for math or not--on a forum where most of the tanks have tanked far more difficult encounters than heroic ToC 5 man, don't get uppity when someone gives you good advice.

  20. #20
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    Your math is wrong, by the way, Mctankor. Defense comes in discrete skill points. 20 defense is 4.065 defense skill. Unless you have at least .935 skill on top of your existing skill number, that .065 does nothing for you.

    So in other words, 565.98 defense skill only gives you the benefits of 565 skill, while 566.01 skill will only give you the benefits of 566 skill. That means for your 20 defense gem, you either gain 4 skill:

    4*0.12%= .48% avoidance

    If it pushes you over on your existing skill to 5, you get:

    5*.12%=.6% avoidance.

    I would listen to Agg though. The stamina is the best bet. You do what you want, but Aggathon knows what he's talking about in this situation.

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