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Thread: Tanking at 80. Return of the Arms raid tank?

  1. #1
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    Tanking at 80. Return of the Arms raid tank?

    I love my warrior, and I love tanking. I remember the day I decided I wanted to make my warrior a tank, badlands lvl 44. Prot has been the most beautiful tree in the game for me since then. Oddly enough, Arms just started looking good tonight.

    Today while poking around with the talent calculators I decided to see what GC was talking about by saying Bliz wanted arms and fury to be able to tank while leveling (since I always told people putting on a shield and going def stance made you a good tank for leveling purposes).

    Poking around with the talents I stumbled on Unrelenting Assault, the single most beautiful talent Arms has to offer IMO. I came up with this build. How I'm looking at things now is that deep prot is king of lvl 70 stuff because everything is an AoE fest and threat isnt an issue right now. At 80 we've been promised that threat won't be just a faceroll and we will have to work. With the future implementation of Dual-specs, it's very possible hardcore tanks will keep an AoE build for trash, and a single target build for bosses.

    What I'm basically hoping this thread will do is give people a delicious oppertunity to poke some holes in my idea and/or reveal their personal views on the subject. I haven't played beta, and I haven't researched any of the instances for beta. I kinda wanted to crash into them without knowing "how they're supposed to be done" kinda as a test of my own tanking prowess.
    Last edited by Petninja; 04-27-2009 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Wowhead link outdated.

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    Reserved, yo.

  3. #3
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    If your healers can keep you alive then I'm sure that spec will pump out some nice dps and tps. That might be a nice build when you out gear some content but for progression, I don't think that will be too great. But I'm no expert on warrior tanking so take what I say with a grain of salt.

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    I would guess it should work for 5 mans, I doubt it for raiding.
    "Resistance is Futile"

  5. #5
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    I find it unlikely it will do much more damage than a more standard Protection spec. You're missing a lot of the nice new Prot talents, however you do get some @ 80 anyhow. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is the best hybridized version of this spec, and unfortunately, it doesn't excel at anything. It's a pretty substantial nerf to your tank in terms of survivability/mitigation, as well as versatility.

    I wouldn't recommend doing a hybrid spec making you have both a weak arms tree and a week protection tree. Instead use your dual spec for a strong spec of both, or just two specialized protection specs.
    Last edited by Xav; 11-06-2008 at 11:02 AM.
    Xav
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  6. #6
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    Since threat is no longer a faceroll it is probably more important that you get deep prot talents.

    SnB is going to help you out tps MS any day.

    Unrelenting assault is great and having revenge's CD lowered is fancy and such but you do alot of dmg with revenge when you have imp defensive and one hand specialization, not to mention making it dirt cheap with focused rage.

    Did I mention SnB?

    I want to hug SnB.

  7. #7
    Yeah you are gimping yourself, honestly, without a true prot build, and with the right glyphs and everything threat really isn't an issue. 5 mans and stuff now seem pretty easy, but some of the upper raid content is still a challenge. Besides, a full prot build is waaaay too much fun! Warbringer... I <3 warbringer, and damage shield, and shockwave, all the new stuff, its just amazing. That being said, I have also tanked in arms now, single target was phenomenal, but it didn't feel, to me, like it had the chops to make it through a heroic, much less raiding. So I have to agree, for a regular 5 man, it would be fine, and for OT duties would work too, but the talent trees have too many awesome deep talents to keep from going all the way to the 51 pointers.

    Just one orc's opinion ;D

  8. #8
    I could have sworn that Shield Slam and MS share a cooldown.

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    Came to the same conclusion here.

    I really think this build has potential. Especially in conjunction with Glyph of Revenge and Heroic Strike. I'm just not sure which weapon speed would be best. Fast to take advantage of all the HS's or slow to take advantage of unmitigated bleed damage.

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    You basically had the same ideas I had. The doubts I have with it is that SnB is only going to get better with block value, and revenge doesn't scale with anything so by the end of wrath SnB will almost certainly be outdoing spammable revenge. I do think that if dual specs are in place this might really shine on early bosses. I think this train of thought is scary for a lot of tanks to entertain, but if I'm not mistaken early into vanilla WoW tanks were doing MC as arms because there was just no reason to be prot.

  11. #11
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    I've been playing around with a variation of this build (turns out Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is absolutely phenomenal for both PvP in a mix of prot and dps gear and doing high damage while tanking raid bosses), and I think that while it does give you adequate survivability at 70, and a decent hike in single-target damage in non-tank circs, it actually stands as a moderate tps/dps loss (unless you want to tank raid bosses with 11k base HP and mad resilience, in which case you might almost break even). I have no meters to link or specific details to cite, but I'd estimate about a 25% tps loss on single targets and a MAJOR loss of aoe tanking ability (the 1-2 punch of tclap SW to frontload threat is VITAL) and a lot of lacking utility from vig, warbringer, etc. So, I'd say level with a spec like that, or maybe grind with it (that's what I do), but don't bring it into raid unless you wanna just gimp yourself.

    If you were to raid as hybrid arms at 80 though, I'd say this would be the optimal spec.
    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    It's similar to Xav's, but since you're going to prioritize rev/CB over everything else it makes more sense to pick up AttT instead of that point in focused rage or the point in vig. Also, there's no good reason to get imp charge over TM since when you don't get rev to proc you'll be using MS and mo' threat is mo' betta. Maybe you were forgetting you wouldn't have warbringer to benefit from the points there?

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    You basically had the same ideas I had. The doubts I have with it is that SnB is only going to get better with block value, and revenge doesn't scale with anything so by the end of wrath SnB will almost certainly be outdoing spammable revenge. I do think that if dual specs are in place this might really shine on early bosses. I think this train of thought is scary for a lot of tanks to entertain, but if I'm not mistaken early into vanilla WoW tanks were doing MC as arms because there was just no reason to be prot.
    Revenge does scale. It's ~20% of AP + base damage.

    So, I'd say level with a spec like that, or maybe grind with it (that's what I do), but don't bring it into raid unless you wanna just gimp yourself.
    I'd say the opposite is true. It's better to do all the beginning instances/grid with the utility and AoE abilities of deep prot, and use this spec to single target tank through Naxx to max out raid DPS. Then, respec again, if TPS becomes an issue post-Naxx(?).

    Just my 2c.

  13. #13
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    I made a post in the Satrina threat thread and the other non prot tanking thread i made with some quick math comparing MS vs SS thread for an arms warrior. Basically MS should be more threat at 80 for us in general. But the question is where to prioritize revenge and if we should use SS as well as MS in the rotation.

  14. #14
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    To dredge up an old thread: I thought about this type of build too. I've seen some attempts, but I don't think they went hardcore enough on maximizing both 1) the Revenge/UA concept itself, and 2) the synergies you naturally run into along the way while building towards the first.

    I think if you're going to attempt this build, then Revenge should be priority #1, so I did this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    (In a post on Wowhead, I took TC instead of Incite, which I now consider to be a mistake... inasmuch as this whole build could NOT be seen as a mistake.)

    The idea here is that you first: maximize your chance to dodge/block/parry (for Revenge to pop), second: get 37 points in Arms for UA, and third: tune to make sure you're putting out the max damage you can without choosing talents that require stance-dancing, as you're meant to be in Defensive Stance the entire time so you don't miss out on Revenge.

    The only points I might consider moving around with this build come from Iron Will, Strength of Arms, Toughness, and Second Wind. These points would only go into increasing rage, or expanding utility - think Anger Management, Endless Rage, Gag Order, and Improved Intercept.

    Notice I've talented for bleed effects: Improved Rend, Deep Wounds, and Trauma. I did that for 2 reasons: 1) damage is more important to this build than utility, as the whole point of doing this is to maximize Revenge damage, and 2) because in that vein, I couldn't find a better way to get to 35 points in Arms for UA, especially with the requirement to take Impale and Deep Wounds early on in the build.

    Also notice that I've built towards crit, which came about as a result of Impale and Deep Wounds. Again, this is to maximize damage.

    Dress up in prot gear for this with a shield, again in order to maximize your avoidance and increase the chance of popping Revenge - the whole reason you're doing this. You may also like to gear/gem/enchant for crit, since you've talented so much into crit already. Glyph for both Heroic Strike and Revenge, then make a Revenge/HS macro and spam it when Revenge pops. Hopefully with a fast weapon you can spam out a few HS crits while you're at it, especially thanks to the points in Incite.

    This will be fun with multiple mobs - with your focus on one mob, another mob can trigger a D/B/P and reset the Revenge activation, meaning you could potentially keep it lit up for a long time. Feel free to tab about and share the Revenge

    I consider this build to be the best one for getting your jollies, and isn't meant for anyone who means "srs bzns". Give it a go, have some fun with it!

  15. #15
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    I've done a bit of arms tanking in Naxx 10 cause I was bored and offspec and boy you put out way more single target threat then a prot warrior spamming revenge almost every gcd + it makes all your HSes free with the glyph. It was pretty silly.

    AE threat was rough though, and mitigation was noticibly lower. It was alot of fun though.

    Makes a great way to solo non caster elites too, put on tank gear and pump out 2k+ dps spamming revenge/hs. Was way more effective while I was levelling then trying to burn down a 150k hp elite in dps gear.

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    Wartorn and I win the internetz. We totally called it.

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    The Unrelenting Assault build has done nothing short of astonish my guild members. On almost every boss encounter in Naxx I hit close to 4k dps and 10-12k tps. This has allowed our guild to open up on every fight without worry of the tank losing threat.

    In Ulduar this spec has also done quite well. Im able to keep stunnable trash from doing much of anything. I'm also contributing a lot more in terms of dps. This spec is also nice for an OT that needs to pick up the boss when the MT dies.

    I also have a survivability build for the times when I'm just not sure. Most of the time however I don't even need it.

  18. #18
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    Wow

    Ive been tanking with my warrior for almost 2 years now. At first glance on this build I am thinking that a healer is going to have a very hard time keeping up with the heals on you unless you seriously out gear what it is your tanking. And for just single target tanking? That sounds to me like its a waste of time. With my build which is really close to Wroars I have no problem holding aggro on a single target as it is. In fact thats what warriors are best at anyhow even with the new style of AOE tanking that they have provided us. As for main tanking boss fights say in naxx with this build I think you would take to much dmg. But for OT I must say it could work out well to build threat fast as sometimes dps unload before an OT picks up and the tank needs to generate a huge amount of threat fast.

    Bottom line is this is a huge gear issue to tank with this spec. If you just hit 80 and want to tank with your warrior I dont think I would suggest a build such as this.
    Lok'tar Ogar!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grgruch View Post
    Ive been tanking with my warrior for almost 2 years now. At first glance on this build I am thinking that a healer is going to have a very hard time keeping up with the heals on you unless you seriously out gear what it is your tanking. [snip] As for main tanking boss fights say in naxx with this build I think you would take to much dmg.
    You take roughly the same amount of damage using this spec as any other; this build does not leave out any of the mitigation talents. The only real differences this spec has is that your AoE threat will be horrid, you will lack the mobility from Warbringer, and your gear choices will be slightly different (You lean more towards avoidance/block just to make sure Revenge is always active). As was said earlier, on the plus side you will do way more DPS and therefore threat to single target (Bosses ftw) which can be quite beneficial pending the fight.

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