Revenge vs Shield Slam priority

[Viroxx]

Just curious what you guys think about making revenge a priority to Shield slam. Seeing as I receive a free heroic strike and have the possibility of getting a free shield slam. It seems like a more practical way to manage rage in scenarios that you may be rage starved.

[Coro]

In the priority list of:

1. SnB Shield Slam
2. Revenge
3. Shield Slam
4. Dev

It's just like that because the SnB Shield Slam is free, and not on the normal "rotation", and the rest of it is going back to the old rotation of 2344.

So, why do most warriors put SnB Shield Slam up top, other then being free? Cuz it's limited time, if timing is right, and proc's happen like they are suppose to, you can get two Shield Slams in the time that would normally be one slam. Otherwise, yeah Revenge is great for that heroic strike, and it does give slighty more burst threat, but think of it SnB proc more of a powerful DoT, or Threat over Time, if you will.

I'm not good with numbers, never have been, I found 2344 on my own just by guessing and stuff, but that's how I see it. *shrug*

[Viroxx]

I prioritize mine as follows:
1) Sword and Board Shield Slam
2) Revenge (Specced into imp revenged)
3) Shield Slam (Specced into gag order)
4) Devastate

I just wanted to double check and see if others agreed.

[Coro]

Yeah, thats the priority list.

[Satorri]

Always hitting SnB Shield Slam is important to clear it so you aren't refreshing the buff. Free shield slams with 15% more crit, 10% more damage, our huge improvement of block value from strength, and the huge increase in strength on NR tanking gear, make it a serious damage winner, and you can't beat free for rage efficiency.

At the best on procs I've been able to SS, Rev (proc), SnB SS, Dev (proc) SnB SS

and string a few SS's into a very short window. When those are hitting from 1500 to 3k each time, that's no laughing matter for threat or damage. The only problem is, with the way Bless of Sanc is, I can't dump rage fast enough. If they don't change that I may just leave off Glyph of Revenge all together. But there'll be a long window before I get a good feel on the (re)balanced raid tanking at 80, as I'm sure there will be adjustments between now and then.

[ttocs]

Conc blow fits well somewhere in there (I put it before revenge personally), especially since it triggers a shorter GCD. A CB + SS combo could make for some good, quick burst threat in a second.

[Glomgore]

Correct, order should be

SnB SS
Rev
Reg SS
Dev

With potential conc thrown in, along with getting yer TC/Demo up sometime.

[Kazeyonoma]

well... to be honest, you still want to prioritize regular SS over Rev still, just because you don't get a SnB proc'd SS but SS comes off of CD doesn't mean you should ignore it and hit revenge instead.

[Bihn]

I agree with Kaze.

I always hit Shield Slam if it's been able to cooldown without Sword and Board procing. Why? Because I like to maximize Shield Slam done. Using it on cooldown opens up the door for it to come off cooldown again more quickly when you start spamming Revenge and Devastate. Anyway you look at it, you are getting one more high TPS ability out in 6 second window.

It being free is good, but getting more Shields Slams off quicker is better.

[CKaz]

quickie question as I near Dev [lvl 43] and factor in my TC
[my build should be back online soon, it is The World of Warcraft Armory]

so before 50, I'm doing
Revenge [glyph free HS, macro'd HS]
SS
TC [multi-mob/slow refresh]
HS [10 rage on crit]

@50 I imagine
Revenge [glyph free HS, macro'd HS]
SS
Dev
TC [multi-mob/slow refresh]

Once SnB - as discussed above

This sound good while climbing the ranks before Dev/SnB?

[Viroxx]

Ckaz are you talking for 5 mans or in terms of maximizing damage as prot?

Going back to what kaze was saying though are you factoring in the Heroic Strike glyph into the equation?
Edit: Should also point at the I'm talking about encounters that will have tanks rage starved. Obviously this isn't the case as of now. But further down the line into Wotlk content it could play a factoc

[Kazeyonoma]

yes, factoring in the heroic strike glyph into the equation I'd still leaning towards ss prioritized over it.

If you're in a low rage situation sure, go with free ss, then revenge, then ss, then devs, but if you've got rage and you're trying to maximize threat output, SS is top, SnB regardless, then revenge, then conc blow/shockwave, then dev.

[nips]

I Always hit revenge unless i'm rely low on rage. I got the revenge glyph that gives a free hs. The reason is that revenge(2 rage) + hs(0 rage after using revenge) gives 2 k dmg for the cost of 2 rage, while a SnB SS(0 rage) + white hit(8ish rage gain) gives about 1.2k dmg and gives 8ish rage.
So if i'm realy low on rage im better of using the SnB +white hit since i end up with more rage, while i use revege+hs everytime i'm over 30 rage or if i know i got alot of rage incoming soon.
I have not factored in the actuall threat in my numbers, but i'm pretty sure revenge+ hs gives more threat aswell.

As it is now i almost have truble keeping my sunders up at times if SnB and revenge procs alot while keeping thunderclap/demoshout/shockwave/coc blow going. I'm probabbly doing it all wrong, but its a time for testing stuff and i dont take it so serious atm. Just mash you buttons and after a while you will notice what works and what does not

[Zrthun]

..., but if you've got rage and you're trying to maximize threat output, SS is top, SnB regardless, then revenge, then conc blow/shockwave, then dev.

That is more or less my priority order (at the moment rage simply doesn't matter in raids for me).
If Shield Block is up then I only use SS (with or without SnB) revenge and dev to maximize SnB procs.

Oh and by the way if you looking for max Thread it is perhaps better to use TC over dev even while tanking single targets. In fact at the moment I don't do that because threat is no problem and dev provides a higher dps in comparison to TC but only looking at threat TC would beat dev with my values.

[Prunetracy]

I was thinking about this, and I don't really think the issue ever comes up where you have to pick between a normal revenge and a normal shield slam, so it's a bit of a moot point which you want to do first.

Shield Slam: 6 second cooldown
Revenge: 5 second cooldown

time
0.0 Shield Slam
1.5 Revenge or Dev
3.0 Revenge or Dev
4.5 Revenge or Dev
6.0 Shield Slam available

Now, in order for Revenge to have come up at the same time, we would have had to Revenge at 1.0 seconds, but that's impossible due to the GCD. I really doubt that revenge is so much better than a non SnB-SS that it would be worth delaying for 0.5 seconds.

Therefore, you can reason that anytime that it looks like a normal SS and Revenge might be coming up at the same time, they're really not, and the Shield Slam is actually coming up 0.5 seconds sooner.

I think it's a good rule of thumb to always have Shield Slam on cooldown anyway. If Shield Slam comes off cooldown (either naturally or due to SnB) and you Rev or Dev instead, you are potentially wasting a SnB proc. To get the most out of SnB, you need to keep Shield Slam on cooldown as your top priority before you Rev or Dev.

[nips]

Revenge is on a wierd timer yes,but unless you are stacking alot of block value revenge is still your higest threat move. So even skipping it for normal SS seems a bit odd when revenge generates more threat and can proc SnB. Compared to SnB I'm not sure what is best. As it is now with the glyp revenge + hs is the higest threat move we got and it is the least rage costing threath move we got, if its a stunnable mob chances are your dmg intake is reduced aswell. Personly i love revenge but that is with my gear setup and at lvl 70 so things might change at 80.

[Glomgore]

SnB Will still proc even if shield slam is already up, the rage cost wise.

[Naaven]

I was thinking about this, and I don't really think the issue ever comes up where you have to pick between a normal revenge and a normal shield slam, so it's a bit of a moot point which you want to do first.

...

To get the most out of SnB, you need to keep Shield Slam on cooldown as your top priority before you Rev or Dev.

That first part's true if you're talking about initial rotation in a vacuum, but I could think of plenty of times you could have Rev and SS up at the same time, like after I get stunned, or if I throw some other moves into the rotation (Conc Blow, TC, Demo Shout, then they're both up, or whatever). So knowing which one is better for me is definitely valuable, at least if it turns out that one of them is considerably MORE valuable.

As to the second part, I've heard others make similar statements, but I either disagree or don't understand the logic here. Why would keeping SS on cooldown give me the max benefit from SnB? If SnB procs while SS is on cooldown, it's true that the CD refresh is added value. But it's only added value because I used a non-SnB first. But that non-SnB SS didn't give me a free Heroic Strike, or that extra sunder, and it doesn't have the possibility to proc SnB.

[Stompya]

...it's true that the CD refresh is added value. But it's only added value because I used a non-SnB first.

^
this

But that non-SnB SS didn't give me a free Heroic Strike, or that extra sunder, and it doesn't have the possibility to proc SnB.

Huh?

[Kahmal]

Its still best to open up with a normal Shield Slam thought right? Starting with Dev hoping for a proc can be dangerous due to how reckless DPS is now and since the sunder threat no longer stacks with it.