+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Prayer of Mending: 3.0 Alert

  1. #1

    Prayer of Mending: 3.0 Alert

    If you see the golden bouncing beam of healing landing on you right before you are about to pull and initiate combat, kindly tell your priest that, unlike pre-3.0 life, all threat from the first healing charge expended transfers threat to the caster of that spell, and --not-- the recipient of the charge.

    Having both a raiding warrior and priest, I enjoyed adding that extra threat to my tanks prior to a pull (roughly equivalent to a free Shield Slam in terms of threat value), but alas that is no more.

    This may explain why priests are popping up on the threat table sooner than before (despite the threat modifications post 3.0 for warriors).

    Save the Squishies!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    123
    Did this change make it into the patch notes? How about Lifebloom or any others?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    27
    Lifeblooms final bloom and earth shield also have this effect. Had a bit of a wtf moment in kara last week when prince bee lined to a healer during the pull.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogota View Post
    Did this change make it into the patch notes? How about Lifebloom or any others?
    I did not see it in the patch notes, but it was picked up by my priest colleague Constantius at EJ.

    Quote:

    VII. Threat Mechanics and You
    With WotLK, the entire threat system was overhauled. Tanks were given many more abilities to hold threat on multiple mobs, and Blessing of Salvation was completely removed from the game. Accordingly, on 90% of encounters, threat will be a complete non-issue for you. On the encounters where it will matter, you will be doing AE healing while mobs spawn at random spots in the room, so tanks can't necessarily pick them up immediately. This, and only this, will be the situation where you have to care about threat. And, thankfully, we have a nifty tool to deal with it:

    Fade: Fade out, temporarily reducing all your threat. . Note that the threat lost from Fade is regained in full once the 10 second duration finishes, and that you continue accruing threat while Fade is up. This has been changed in WotLK to actually set you to zero threat for the duration of the buff. As such, it is very useful, and should definitely be hotkeyed.

    Prayer of Mending: when Prayer of Mending procs (i.e. dmg taken, PoM charge gets used up), the threat from the healing done is attributed directly to the person who cast the PoM. This is a direct change from TBC, when the threat was attributed to the person on whom the PoM proc'd. Don't use PoM on pulls unless you also Fade at the same time, or you'll get smushed. To reiterate: PoM no longer gives threat to other people. Be careful.


    Unquote.

    Hope this helps.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6
    I believe it was mentioned, though it may not have said prayer of mending specifically. I realized it with the change to how threat was working. Though I have to say that old habits do die hard and notice many priests, myself included occasionally, still doing that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    91
    A competent priest should be aware of this and it should not stop them from casting ProM on a tank before a pull. In addition, a Priest may have a Rewew ticking.

    What priest should be doing now is casting Fade as the tank pulls, thereby putting the healer below the tank in threat and (pre-emptively) healing the tank.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6
    I think that would depend upon this question: Can Fade cause you to have negative threat on a mob?

    That is what would need to happen to have this technique you suggest work and you would still need to be careful to make sure you were on the threat list of the mob first. Otherwise it is wasted mana. And as any priest can tell you mana is a commodity no matter how well we regenerate during casting.

    I think a simpler solution would be to wait for the tank to pull then cast your ProM. This gives the tank time to have a bit of aggro on the mob before your heal goes off...

    So it would work something like this: Tank pulls, tank hits the mob, priest sends out ProM and the fight continues as normal. That way your mana is used effectively and Fade is saved when it is an "oh no!" moment and the mana then would be justified.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    91
    The question you should be asking is "Taking Fade into consideration, will my (global) threat exceed the tank's threat on the pulled mob(s) by 130%?"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6
    You raise a good point, but bad luck and a couple of missed initial attacks and you have a squishy on the floor from a renew tick.

    Tanks miss, its how the game works. Most tanks do not have the luxury of being hit capped. So what if a tank pulls with a ranged attack, but misses? A renew tick can pull aggro after healing blood rage damage. Now...take into consideration that my ProM hits for around 3300 healing and a healer can build up some real quick threat and the tank is stuck chasing down a mob that may not be tauntable.

    If we can indeed go negative threat with Fade, then a semi-premptive use of Fade is a great idea. If you cannot go below zero, then Fade is only useful in a reactive situation. Things happen and exceeding the tank's threat by 130% can be very easy if a string of unfortunate incidents occurs.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    91
    First, a Renew tick will not pull aggro as the damage will be healed out of combat. Your tank will use Bloodrage before the pull to gain some rage tics as they range pull/move to the target.

    Second, ProM does not cause any aggro. (WoW 3.02)

    Third, Fade does not put you into negative threat nor does Fade wipe threat completely. Fade reduces threat to a minimum, roughly equivalent to that generated by a body pull. (WoW 3.02)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    278
    Personally I think PoM is just good now on the pull if you know tank is going to be taking a lot of damage straight away, the extra bonus of giving him threat too is no longer there. No need to PoM unless you know it's going to be needed heal wise.
    Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there some day.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    77
    I pop bloodrage after entering combat due to the fact that the rage gained is threat (I take every drop I can get of threat), so for me BR heals would be in combat.
    Farothin of Rexxar <Avaledan>
    Paranoia is just another word for longevity.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    91
    @Kayeliana: I neglected to mention the other reason for proactively casting Fade is to avoid the situation you mentioned - pulling aggro from a heal. Typically, in addition to the ProM and Renew, I've got a cancelcast Greater Heal in the queue which could pull aggro if it lands. The first 5-10 seconds of a pull are the most critical since the tank is building threat. Pulling aggro during this time could result in the tank not landing a Shield Slam because the mob is running at a squishy (you or someone else), hence proactively casting Fade in order to avoid that situation. If you use Fade reactively, the tank has to chase down the mob - generating little to no threat - and the situation snowballs from there. The key thought here is Prevention.

    @Tobius: ProM increases healing throughput by healing (other targets) concurrently to your other heals. It also stabilizes Main Tank damage, or to think of it another way, adds 2K+ of additional health (provided the tank will survive the next attack). In addition, if ProM procs off of a second target it becomes more time/mana efficient than a Flash Heal. Granted, I won't use it as often as I did pre-3.02, but ProM should be maintained.

    @Farothin: Most Warrior tanks I know like to start off with a Shield Slam and need 17 to 20 Rage to do it. Personally, so do I, and I find the threat generated by activating Bloodlust comes from using the ability itself, not the Rage gained. Take Nightbane for example. As you are in combat and generating rage, do you see your aggro upticking with him as he lands?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Furi View Post
    @Kayeliana: I neglected to mention the other reason for proactively casting Fade is to avoid the situation you mentioned - pulling aggro from a heal. Typically, in addition to the ProM and Renew, I've got a cancelcast Greater Heal in the queue which could pull aggro if it lands. The first 5-10 seconds of a pull are the most critical since the tank is building threat. Pulling aggro during this time could result in the tank not landing a Shield Slam because the mob is running at a squishy (you or someone else), hence proactively casting Fade in order to avoid that situation. If you use Fade reactively, the tank has to chase down the mob - generating little to no threat - and the situation snowballs from there. The key thought here is Prevention.
    As a priest I never liked the "preemptive fade" and always preferred a reactive fade for three main reasons:

    1) Before, fade provided a fixed threat reduction during which you continued to build it, and I believe it could not put you at a negative threat value. This means if you faded early on when your threat level was low (smaller than fade's displacement), you squandered some portion of the spell's effect. This is obviously no longer an issue since it apparently now reduces you to zero and keeps you there for the duration.

    2) Fade lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown... So if your preemptive fade ends and *then* a bad situation arises (say, the group gets adds just as you finish a gheal or PoH), your best "oh shit" button is still cooling down and a bad situation just got worse.

    3) Long before threat meters were invented, fade also functioned nicely as a "help me" audio/visual cue. Now that threat meters are ubiquitous (and, in fact, even incorporated into the default UI) this is less of a factor, but it still may serve as an alert to group members that their healer is in trouble. In particular it might catch the attention of a dpser who normally doesn't watch healer threat, but still has some capacity to protect them while the tank gains control.

    Obviously I'm talking in general terms of group play here, not about raid bosses who will 1-shot anyone besides the tank.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    91
    @Phenk: I'm going to address "Reason 2." Fade lasts 10 seconds with a 30 second CD. In addition, since it's an instant-cast spell, it kicks you into a 1.5 GCD. So realistically you have 7.5 seconds of actual Fade-affected time. This is the time your tank should be extablishing enough threat to hold mobs even as you exit threat. The next 20 seconds, as Fade cools down, should see stablized threat generation and maintenance.

    In all likelyhood, if you have to use Fade in those next 20 seconds, you or a member of your party have done something catastropically wrong.

    Another mechanic of Fade for your consideration: if you pull a group of mobs and no one else in your party does anyhting to them (through direct damage ofr global threat) and you hit Fade, you are going to die. The mobs will continue to attack you.

    In almost every other situation, someone else has caused initial aggro and will continue to do so. And if it isn't a catastrophic failure, you should be able to recover with the other tools at your disposal.

    Realisticly, in 3.02, using Fade proactively is another tool in your Priestly arsenal to make the Tank's life (and through that your group's lives) much, much easier.

    Edit: A couple more thoughts...
    @Farothin: Why are you using Bloodthirst after entering combat? Realistically, you use it outside of combat to gain Rage and start the cooldown for your next use. In addition, if you use it in combat, you're tripping a global cooldown for negligible aggro gain - especially when that GCD could be used for an ability that's more effective for building aggro (like Thunderclap or Shield Slam). I could understand if you were using it (again) a minute into the battle), but your response left me thinking you use it upon starting combat - which has left me rather perplexed.
    Last edited by Furi; 10-29-2008 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Added a though and didn't want to post twice. :P

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Furi View Post
    @Farothin: Why are you using Bloodthirst after entering combat? Realistically, you use it outside of combat to gain Rage and start the cooldown for your next use. In addition, if you use it in combat, you're tripping a global cooldown for negligible aggro gain - especially when that GCD could be used for an ability that's more effective for building aggro (like Thunderclap or Shield Slam). I could understand if you were using it (again) a minute into the battle), but your response left me thinking you use it upon starting combat - which has left me rather perplexed.
    1, as far as the GCD goes, I'd hit BR during travel time. Whether it was while I'm running in or while the mobs run to me after being shot.
    2, Yes, I am using it immediately upon the pull. Every tank will agree that in most fights the most threat sensitive part is the pull. If I miss my initial attacks hitting BR when I do will hold aggro over a curse or other debuff being applied to the target. Yeah, it's not a huge amount but it's the only global threat tool I have so I use it and it's more threat than a body pull. (Warbringer makes some of this obsolete but if I shoot to pull something the next ability is bloodrage while the mob(s) are traveling to me.)
    Farothin of Rexxar <Avaledan>
    Paranoia is just another word for longevity.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    22
    Indeed this is true, but it's still an awesome spell, and should be used like that even now. It's not an issue that the priest get's agro from it anyways, if it is, some other thing is wrong

    -Xh

    Holy Priest / Prot Warrior

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    14
    I'm still using Pom and renew on the tank before the pull and I dont fade. If your tank is half decent, you will not pull aggro from Pom.
    Also, in raid the tank often get a misdirect so the Pom threat is a non issue.

    I find it quite usefull to get some buffer if we need to move to a specific location like in Archimonde.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2
    I'm Disc. For me it's PW:S, PoM, Renew (if it's goning to be a rough start), and then I deal with things. If the mobs run toward me I Fade and the tank eventually figures out they'll come right back to them. If it's a seriously tough fight I substitute a Pennance for the Renew. If it's running smooth I skip the Renew/Pennance.

    When Fade's duration expires, the next threat-generating action will generate normal threat plus all the threat that was originally Faded from the target.
    Fade - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Furi View Post
    Why are you using Bloodthirst after entering combat? Realistically, you use it outside of combat to gain Rage and start the cooldown for your next use. In addition, if you use it in combat, you're tripping a global cooldown for negligible aggro gain - especially when that GCD could be used for an ability that's more effective for building aggro (like Thunderclap or Shield Slam). I could understand if you were using it (again) a minute into the battle), but your response left me thinking you use it upon starting combat - which has left me rather perplexed.
    Pre-3.0, and I'm almost sure it's the same now, Rage is considered a resource that counts as a 'gain' the same as mana and health. As such when used in combat right after a pull/charge/etc it is a small bit of threat gained by the Warrior on all mobs the are in combat with.

    It's one thing that has lead me to me /sighing at many the DPS war during pulls. As they would tend to pop BR right after the pull and the rage 'gain' would send all the mobs that I had not tagged to them.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts