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Thread: Mark targets & CC assignments = tanks job?

  1. #1
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    Mark targets & CC assignments = tanks job?

    I'm finding it a bit annoying that a fair amount of players think tanks magicly know all the pulls in 5mans/heroics/raids. I have enough to think about with tanking I don't need the added pressure of having to mark all targets and setup CC.

    Maybe it's just that I think a little differently about what a role of a tank is. If you start the 5 man/heroic group, you are the leader, you mark the targets, you assign CC duties. Not the tank.

  2. #2
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    well, it's because you control the pull and you set the pace.

    sometimes you know better than the cc'er who is the best candidate for a sheep, and likewise, some tanks don't even like to have things cc'd so they leave it to you, tanks kind of naturally fit into the role of being the leader because of the position of control you have to take just as tanking.

    Most pugs after I join, pass me leader once we enter the instance, or I ask for it, because I normally know the place better anyways. Being the tank sometimes means knowing every pull and encounter, down to the cc targets, it's just part of the responsibility.

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  3. #3
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    There is also the idea that, oh your are lvl 70 you know all the 5 mans then. Well no I don't, I don't like doing 5 mans over and over, nor heroics, I'd rather be raiding/farming G/working on professions.

    For example, when I did 60-70, I mostly did quests, I wanted to enjoy the zones. The guild I was in at the time really needed me as a tank in kara, so as soon as I hit 70, got my kara key and quickly put together a entry level tanking set and started doing kara. To this day I have only done about half the BC 5 mans.

    So when I tank for a guildies group (that has pugs in it), they all assume I know everything about the instance. Must be a BC thing because it wasn't this way pre-BC with 5 mans, at least not as much.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by deviationer View Post
    I'm finding it a bit annoying that a fair amount of players think tanks magicly know all the pulls in 5mans/heroics/raids. I have enough to think about with tanking I don't need the added pressure of having to mark all targets and setup CC.

    Maybe it's just that I think a little differently about what a role of a tank is. If you start the 5 man/heroic group, you are the leader, you mark the targets, you assign CC duties. Not the tank.
    Yup, I'm afraid this role often falls onto the tank. That being said, you should welcome this role not hate it. Yes, you don't get to be as laid back, but you learn way, way more. I know every pull in every instance in TBC. I know tons of T6+ DPSers and Healers that can't say the same and when they do these instance on their tank alts... it shows, big time.

    There's nothing more valuable you can do in a run than marking targets and doing it yourself will ensure that you can consistently give your groups a good experience. Even the best tank in the world is going to look pretty average if that don't get to instinctively run an instance the same way.

    So, I hate to break it to ya, but as a tank this is what you signed up for.

  5. #5
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    Hell, if I wasn't pulling, marking targets, directing traffic, etc, etc, I would probably fall asleep.

    The tank is generally the key to instances. He is the point of the spear, where the rubber meets the road, or whatever cliche you want to say. Others can do it...but when bad marking, bad pulling, and bad experiences happen in instances the grumbling will generally come back to, "If the tank didn't suck we would have been fine."

    I prefer to eliminate the middle man and live or die by my own choices.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by veneretio View Post
    So, I hate to break it to ya, but as a tank this is what you signed up for.
    What Veneretio said is spot on. I'd say 99.9% of the time you are responsible for marking and assigning CC. That's what people expect, and I can say I've only had someone else mark a handful of times and that was mainly early on when I started tanking.

    I can relate to where your coming from though, early on I was worried about marking the wrong things or CCing the wrong mobs. The sad truth is if you don't have confidence in the pulls, your group will pick up on it and usually chaos ensues. But all that said, we have alot of tools post-3.0 that can help us. I'd also say now is good time to run all the instances you may not have. One thing I do alot instances I'm not familiar with is flip out to the WoWiki and look at the mob types and get a idea of their abilities. If you not sure of the pulls, don't be afraid to ask others in your group. All though post-3.0 most groups want you to chain pull and speed through instances.

  7. #7
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    I like the marking, that way I can get it the way I want. If someone else would mark they would probably do it different than me and so it'd be not to my liking.

    It's not that hard either. If I know the instances I can do it while running towards them, DPS gotta stay sharp and act fast.

  8. #8
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    Too the extent CC is necassary anymore, yeah, it falls on the tank. Its not 100% necassary but the role a tank accepts is not just to be a meatshield and damage soaker but a leader and field commander. Your tanking style and method as well as confidence directly determines what CC is necassary.

    That said, I have tanked so long, my friends often pass me leader to mark targets....when I'm playing my mage or druid :/

    Like Vene said, its a good feeling to be trusted by people. Yeah, others kinda have it easy but easy is boring.
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  9. #9
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    Regardless of whether things need to be marked nowadays, and I would argue for a new group of 70s marking would still be worthwhile, another of the tanks jobs is marking patrols, knowing which to pull and have an, at times, instinctive feeling for what will pull what else. The average dps'er or healer will have no idea where the patrols are, if they are doing their job they are a few feet behind the tank and are therefore not in the optimal place to see anyway.
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  10. #10
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    I agree with Kaze. It is sort of your job to know each pull in the heroic you are doing. If you dont know the pulls you can sorta figure them out by checking a number of things.
    1)What CC do you have in your party? mage(sheep), Warlock(shackle) Hunter (trap).....
    2)then what type of mobs are in the pull. Demon, humanoid, undead.
    this helps you to immediatle figure out how each mob can be handled.
    3)another thing to look for is the Toughest/hardest hitting mob in the pull. this mob is the mob that you want to take down 1st. the longer that mob is up the harder it is for the healer to keep you up and to keep his mana up. (Dual weilding elites and somecasters ussually post the biggest threat, or mobs that give you a MS debuff)
    with this information you can start the pull.
    Tanking in general means you are the control player. ( you should want to be the control freak) You decide what happens, where the fight takes place, the kill order.

  11. #11
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    As a paladin I always marked mobs differently than my warrior friend. After running an instance together one time we got into a discussion on why we mark things the way we do.

    At the time I generally got the casters CCd and went after the melee heavy hitters. I preferred this because of the way paladin midigation was at the time. He generally liked to kill the casters first because they were weaker and cc the hard hitters.

    Each class / player has their own way of doing it. I joined a heroic mech one time where a mage was marking targets, and half way through he basically said he would never run with me again because I didn't know how to tank.

    Unfortunately, he was marking targets in such a way that made it hard for me to keep agro on multiple targets. It was probably the best way for him to kill mobs, but it didn't work for me at all. Just my 2 cents.
    The only thing better than being able to tank, is realizing that you no longer need to prove that you can.


  12. #12
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    I somewhat don't agree with your number 3, Gongos. Taking the hardest hitting mob down first. I think that one should be CCd as good as possible and you should nuke the mobs that can fear, heal or are just otherwise a danger for the group.

    Also if you don't know the pulls look out for mobs that have mana. They might be casters and looking for LOS, just in case, might be a good idea before you whip out your gun.

  13. #13
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    Back when TBC launched my brother was the resident plate wearing tank and I was a Hunter. His ability to mark was severely impared by his lack of common sense, unwillingness to research practically anything about fights, and total lack of disregard for crowd control. He was a Prottard. He knows how to stand still, Holy Shield, Judge/Seal, and Concecrate. So with that, I took over marking and leading duties and never gave them up.

    Now that I'm a Warrior, I relish in the role. But its a personal choice. If the original poster doesn't enjoy that aspect of the game, you shouldn't berate him because he should conform to your views of what the class entails. That said, as some have pointed out, it is "easier" if the tank does it because he/she is dictating the pace of the raid, and its a natural leadership position.

  14. #14
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    I think the reason that we are seen as the marker is 2 fold.

    1) we are the ones who are setting the pace and determining what the dps should kill, so naturaly we should also be determining what we dont what killed at the moment. You also have to be aware of the whole group, just not yourself like a dpser.

    2) I know this has happened to me, but when you have been tanking for awhile, (3 years for me) you develop "TANK-O-VISION" (engineering skill not required). You see the groupings of mobs and know which ones can be pulled safely, when they can be pulled, and how much cc you'll need.
    "Ive always wondered what we warriors say to make people attack harder, be healthier, or taunt mobs" -Orla

  15. #15
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    Dpsers rely on threat to not be squished into red goop, they then rely on the tank to generate such threat. It's the tank who caps the pace of the run, and what goes down first. It's only natural that a tank(specially those who didn't start raiding right off the bat, like many ex-alts) is in control. Marking is just part of the bundle, and knowing everything about the instance is, by extension, part of tanking.

  16. #16
    I think marking is fun. Just remember, its OK to ask for help. Let them know your not the best and more often then not someone will help. Better yet JOIN A GUILD that RUNS DUNGEONS

    i came late in the game so i was out geared, inexperienced and not knowledgeable in the ins and outs but if there is ANY time to learn, now is the time. With the nerfs and new talents i've been able to experience Kara, ZA, Gruuls, Mags and just about every heroics except MgT and i'm loving it. It was daunting at first but its really easy

    My basic pug mark:

    Square - Trap
    Moon - Sap
    Condom (circle) - CC be it another hunter, another rogue mind control or whatever
    Skull - DPS/MT 1
    X - Secondary DPS target

    The reason YOU mark is because only YOU can set the pace and know where to plant the CC. YOu have to be aware of your surroundings, your healer and where the saps/traps go so YOU don't break them.

    Like others have said, mark your targets according to your group. I like to either 100% cc healers first or 100% dps healers and cc the rest - depending on make of group. Just be aware of which ones are healers or which ones throw fears and handle them accordingly so you manage the pace and flow of your group. Last thing you want is to cc the easy ones and have the bad boys fear your team all over the dungeon aggro'ing everything around you and wiping.

    With great power, comes great responsibility

    Now in a Raid - i typically employ an experienced raid leader to do marking because the tank is usually positioning for next pull while raid leader describes the process, what each team will do and what is going down. It transfers from 10 to 25 man really easy this way. Just no reason fora raid leader in 5 man since its something small and not hard to do. The time you take to mark will allow your mana folks to eat/drink and mana up as well.

  17. #17
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    I have my 70 sunwell geared warrior, and 65 prot paladin. Everyone asks my "why do you have another tank". "roll ret" etc. The best time to learn how to tank is when you're leveling not after. It irks me when a tank has no idea how to do pulls because they never actually run the instance before.

    Your job as a tank includes setting the pace, deciding what to kill first, which mobs need to be cc'ed how packs die depending on how well you can manage them as a tank. #1 tank job is control. If you aren't in control you're not a tank, just some bum carried along to get the attention in mobs.

    Guilds that don't have tanks as officers tend to be have the worst tanks and the worst tank turnover because they are all zombies and get told what to do by a non-tank.

  18. #18
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    I've tanked for so long on my warrior, that when I run things on my hunter I tend to do the marking. With the new change to MD being a 30 sec CD, I do a lot of the pulling too.

    My guild ran a Kara last week. I was on my hunter and we had a pally tanking. Half the raid was t5 dps, the other pre kara alts. I set the pace of the run by marking targets and MDing onto the tank. I did it subconsciensly because I was so used to doing it on my warrior. The tank yelled at me a few times because I didnt wait for him to mana up as I was chain pulling the next groups.

  19. #19
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    Simple answer

    Yes

    Longer answer

    I'm sure it varies some from server to server. I've been expected to mark targets and assign CC since Rage Fire Chasm, so in my experience it's something tanks take care of always.

    Knowing the pulls, is also something I consider to be very much the tank's job. Again, I've heard that in some places hunters or whatever pull. That's not how I've ever worked with the lone exception of pulls where the aggro radius is longer than the range on shoot (which is essentially stuff like Naga packs in SSC).

    Much will come with experience. I quite literally have every mob in every instance in TBC memorized at this point from the sheer number of times I've run those places.
    Last edited by kolben; 10-30-2008 at 01:29 PM.

  20. #20
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    When you actually need to deal with CC, it's probably the best idea to have the tank doing it, since that's who is pulling. That's been said.

    In my case, I'm perfectly okay with letting someone else mark, as long as they have some standard they're following and actually doing it.

    Now that I'm just marking up things for kill order and to make it easier for me to keep track of in Forsaken Threat Meter, I'd honestly prefer that someone else do it. What I mark as the first kill target usually has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm actually going to charge into, so someone could just mark mobs randomly and it wouldn't really change how I do things.

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