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Thread: Loot Distribution Systems in WotLK

  1. #1
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    Loot Distribution Systems in WotLK

    I'm a frequent reader but not a frequent poster, so a quick intro: I'm the GM/MT/RL of <The Risen> on Tichnodrius (a 3yr old progression guild with your standard set of rules, class leads, and a dkp system for 25-man loot that has stood the test of years with minor tweaks since the 40-man days).

    Now to my topic:

    In BC, we would /roll for 10-man loot because there was little contention for any given piece among 10 players. With a little of what we call the "don't be gay rule" thrown in, we managed without any incident and loot distribution facilitated progression to the extent that 10-man content was available in BC.
    We managed 25-man loot with a DKP system with fairly common policies.

    I'm looking at WotLK and I'm uncertain about the optimal loot distribution method. I want the same things we all want.. to optimize distribution for progression, to shape attendance behavior, to have a fair and unbiased approach, etc, etc.

    Our Raid Schedule Plan: We raid ~3 nights a week. We will make an opportunistic decision at raid start time about the night's target(s) (split into 10's or tackle 25-man content). Once earlier 10-man content is on alt/farm status, we will push it off the raid schedule and allow our members at large to organize off-schedule runs.

    Reasons why I'm even considering DKP for 10-mans:
    10-man content reaches further down the progression line
    Consolidation of stats (think spell power) give 10-man drops more users/item
    Tier set bonuses are shared between 10- and 25-man pieces

    Reasons why I'm against using DKP in 10-mans:
    DKP administration using our current tool is difficult to manage with multiple weekly 10-man's
    I expect us to graduate some farm status 10-man's off of our raid schedule and allow members at large to schedule off-night runs.

    In the face of higher complexity, some officers' first instinct was to bring it all back to basics and do /rolls and/or loot council for everything. I believe we had DKP for good reasons and still need it, but I'm faced with the question of where it applies and where it doesn't given the new 10/25-man options in WotLK.

    As it stands today, I'm thinking we'll handle 10's the way we handled kara/za loot before (with /rolls) and 25's will remain on DKP. I'm just not 100% sure so I thought I'd reach out to the community here and get a read on your views and plans as they pertain to loot distribution come WotLK.

    Thanks,
    TheGrowler
    <The Risen>
    Tichondrius

  2. #2
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    Just random the stuff in 10 mans, then use a DKP system with decay in 25 mans so that people have a use em or lose em points incentive to buy the upgrades. We're going to use EPGP in WLK for exactly that.

  3. #3
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    Maybe it was because it wasn't maintained properly (points were decayed once a week, or something), but I thought EPGP was terrible.

    In my prior guild, we've had people go inactive for weeks (while having their EP/GP decay), show up the week of a first kill, and basically take free loot. It seemed like it devalued high-attendance players in favor of casuals.

    Maybe it was the way the guild operated (decay wasn't applied consistently, turnover was incredibly high, etc.), but I thought it was a terrible idea.
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. -Seneca
    Everyone marvels at a square egg, but only the chicken understands the PAIN.

  4. #4
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    If you screw up the decay, it will suck yep. I've modelled EPGP out to 250 and 300 raids using our historical attendance and turnover numbers and am satisfied it will work for us.

  5. #5
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    I would love to see a detailed post on your EPGP system Satrina. It seems to me that it would be a difficult system to fine tune.
    Tanks: We like it rough.

  6. #6
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    I was in an EPGP system for a few months and it has its pros and cons. The more static your raid is, the more each player contributes, the better it works. In a perfect world, if you had 25 people working together and putting in equal effort, it would be as good a system as you could ask for. Everyone will get loot and no one can skip loot now to hoard for the future as effectively as with a ZS DKP system or a straight DKP system.

    I speak from experience in saying that it is pretty harsh to people who take items they later regret...it cycles through priority quickly and taking an item knocks you out. If you have a solid, low turnover raid, its going to someone who will help you out and contribute to your success.

    Wow, I wrote 3 paragraphs of nothing. Grats me.
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  7. #7
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    Bumping this because it's looking like my guild might get 25s together for 2 nights/week right now, mostly because we know we're not going to find a challenge in the 10s. Anywho, we're looking for a new loot system as well. I've never liked EQ, so I'm looking for some other alternative.

  8. #8
    We use Ni Karma. It is a roll plus bonus system. You can roll on items with and with out bonus. If you choose to add bonus to your roll you lose half your karma. Mathimatically it tends towards Zero sum. It also functions a little like suicide kings in that when you win something if people have similar attendance you drop far below them. While you still may have a chance at winning the odds are against it. The main issue that we have hit with it is that we run with a cap. We have been finding that on farm content that people hit the cap rather quickly.

  9. #9
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    We were actually working on our own custom hand coded DKP at one point in time around the time we started T6, but the guy who was coding it ran into some RL financial difficulties and didn't have time to play the game let alone code a personal project. Ugh, such a shame. It would have been a perfectly amazing DKP for our group. Not for everyone mind you.

  10. #10
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    Rolling the 10 man loot is indeed probably the best solution.

    As for EPGP, we've been using it for ages. I really really like it, it totally rewards the people who attend alot, and you can not really sit there and stack up alot of EP for ages. You'll have to be rather active to be able to keep up top on the priority list, due the decay you do(you're free to choose what percentage you want the addon to decay), we do it once each raid, some people does it once each week, but i'd say, once each raid is pretty much the best choice.

    I know that alot of people probably are quiet oldschool and have been using Dragon Kill Points since they started raiding back in vanilla wow, so a quick summary about EPGP for the intrested:

    EPGP is a system based 100% ingame, using an addon called EPGP(duh?). Download link: epgp (dkp reloaded) - Addons - Curse

    The addon stores the information using the Players officer notes and some strings in the guild information tab.

    EP(Efforpoints): This is the easy part, you gain EP from killing bosses, also from the timed EP function(you'll get an EP reward based on for example 30Minutes), from wiping in raids and for beeing on time to raids etc. This is totally modfifyable, you may choose to reward whatever you want to reward, and there's also an REALLY REALLY nice way of giving away EP to people sitting on standby, when you for example kill a boss, you announce in Guildchat that the boss is down and people should whisper you to aquire their standby EP for that boss kill. You can also choose which channel this should be announced in so for example if you only want to reward the raidmembers wipe EP, you post that in the raidchat.

    GP(Gearpoints): You get credited gear points from looting an item, different prices on different items.

    PR(Priority rating): From dividing your EP with your GP you get your Priority rating. This decides who's on top of the priority list, obviously, and the top one gets the item. (The addon does this for you )

    You can penalise bad work, inactivity, afking without any reasons etc by either giving people -EP or giving them +GP. Plus GP does affect the most, so I personally like that method the most, but it's up to you as an officer/RL/GM etc to discuss and decide what you think is the best for your guild.


    Im at a webdesign lesson now, so i might missed couple of things, tabbing from adobe PS, adobe flash etc to this forum while writing, however, come with questions if you got any!
    Last edited by Riskvikk; 11-06-2008 at 08:09 AM.

  11. #11
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    About EPGP: do only effortpoints decay or do gearpoints also decay?

  12. #12
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    I'm interested in EGPG, but from what I've gathered the magic sauce is in the values you assign for various variables such as decay rates, etc. I'm wondering if someone with EGPG experience could post up an outline of what each of those variables are, the default or recommended values or ranges are for each, and a desciption of effects and considerations for altering each variable. Some models of optimal variable settings might be nice, too.. for example, a raiding team with a 30-man roster and very high attendance %'s may have one set of optimal values that differs greatly from a team with a 45-man roster and lower attendance percentages.

    Satrina- I'm also very interested in how you tested the system using historicals. If you could share some insight on your tools and methods to accomplish this I'd appreciate not having to re-invent that wheel.
    Last edited by TheGrowler; 11-06-2008 at 10:01 AM. Reason: clarification

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    About EPGP: do only effortpoints decay or do gearpoints also decay?
    Both effort points and gear points gets decayed.

  14. #14
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    I can simply help you with pretty much copy paste from the way we're doing things in Velocity, on Grim Batol.

    Note before reading: There're some things we're using in raids that not every guild is used to I suppose. We always have an assigned "AFK Officer" an officer that is the person you whisper if you by any emergency or etc, need to go afk for couple of minutes in the raid.

    I'm not sure what to call us really, we've been raiding 5 days a week, 4 hours a raid, with overtime now and then, cleared 4/6 sunwell before patch(to excuse myself we were stuck on magtheridon alliance for ages, no recruits etc but that's another story). However this system is supposed to work with 4-5 days of raiding in the beginning of WoTLK.


    Some basics:

    * Before EACH raid the points for EVERYONE in the GUILD, are decayed by 10%, by the RL. This means EVERYONE's EP and GP are decreased by 10%. This way PR is not changed for anyone, but for people that dont raid, they will not be able to live on "old" efforts for long.


    * Before EACH raid the points for EVERYONE in the GUILD, are decayed by 10%, by the RL. This means EVERYONE's EP and GP are decreased by 10%. This way PR is not changed for anyone, but for people that dont raid, they will not be able to live on "old" efforts for long.


    *NOTE* There are 2 ways of getting loot with this system. Either you a) Raid as much as possible and get loads of EP, and so have a higher prio. OR b) you can slack like hell, keeping your EP just above 1500, and wait till your GP is decayed down below 50, then you can need on any item you want as you will have the highest PR in the guild.

    But we are not a bunch of slackers are we?

    So to prevent this second scenario the LOWEST GP any player can have is 100GP!
    If at the time of looting anyone has under 100GP, it shall be INCREASED to 100GP before looting.

    * Officers/master looters have the right to give priority on loot to certain classes or players, if it is deemed important for the guild's progress.

    * New trials will start in the guild with 500GP. This way it will take some time until their GP is decayed and EP accumulated to levels that make it possible for them to receive loot.

    Penalties:

    Ninja Pulls & Noob Mistakes = -500EP
    Not Using Consumables on Progress Bosses = +100GP
    Leaving the Raid Early without a GOOD reason, that you have told Officers about at the START of the raid = +100GP
    Delaying the raid at a boss by being Afk Regardless! = +50GP
    AFK more than 5 Mins Without Informing the Afk Officer = +50GP
    AFK More than 10 Minutes = +100GP
    Not being available when called up from standby within 5mins (A reasonable amount of time) = -500EP
    Missing an entire week of raiding regardless = +50GP **

    ** So that people who have been away can not come back suddenly and get loot on a freshly downed boss that others have been wiping on for the last few weeks.

    EP Awards(Note, since this is formed for WoTLK it's not 100% finished yet):

    Naxx 25 Man

    Time EP = +25EP (30 Min)
    Wipe EP (Farm) = +5EP
    Wipe EP (Progress) = +10EP
    Boss EP (Farm) = +100EP
    Boss EP (1st Kill) = +125EP
    Sapphiron = +150EP
    Kel'Thuzad = +200EP

    Obsidian Sanctum 25 Man
    Time EP = +25EP (30 Min)

    Eye of Eternity 25 Man
    Time EP = +25EP (30 Min)

    Standby EP awards:

    Per Boss Kill : After each boss kill a message will be spammed in guild chat.

    30 Minute Interval : Time Ep, every 30 minutes you may claim time ep.




    Same thing now again, any questions, just reply or gimme a PM!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    I was in an EPGP system for a few months and it has its pros and cons. The more static your raid is, the more each player contributes, the better it works. In a perfect world, if you had 25 people working together and putting in equal effort, it would be as good a system as you could ask for. Everyone will get loot and no one can skip loot now to hoard for the future as effectively as with a ZS DKP system or a straight DKP system.

    I speak from experience in saying that it is pretty harsh to people who take items they later regret...it cycles through priority quickly and taking an item knocks you out. If you have a solid, low turnover raid, its going to someone who will help you out and contribute to your success.

    Wow, I wrote 3 paragraphs of nothing. Grats me.

    I can do nothing but agree with this somewhat rambling post.

    The more static your raid group is the better the system works. I've been in two guilds that used the EPGP system, and it worked awesomly in one and terrible in another. In both guilds I was responsible for decay / administration of the system so I was positive it was getting opperated under the same standards.

    The issue I found with EPGP is that the decay is too quick. While I want to encourage people to spend their points and not horde it is easy to accumulate EP, and easy to discard GP. This resulted in people abusing the system by 'spiking' attendance. One week on, one week off, or two weeks on two weeks off. This would fully decay their GP as your GP DOES decay wether or not you show up (unless you manually decay the system which we considered doing but cripes that worked out to a LOT of administration and math going through every guild members and working out what their effective EP / GP loss / gain was every day). The fact that the system decays as a whole wether or not you are there is the only flaw. You dont want it to NOT decay because that is the entire perk of the system, the diminishing returns on stacking EP. However, decaying GP on people that are not activly participating in your guild is an issue.

    If your guild has ANY casuals or people that do not invest 100% / have extreme loyalty to the guild I do not suggest this system. However, in a perfect world / modeling system this is great.

    EPGP is the communisim of loot systems. Works great on paper but have fun locating an actual group it worked with in a normal situation (10 points to the person who points out the society that activly lives under a communist society and is the only successful society to do so at net profit). The EPGP system is fantastic, however, I would suggest running it alongside whatever loot system you're running in a 'simulated' way watching the numbers and taking a few nights a week for a month or so before implimenting it for your guild. It is a fantastic system, but it's not for everyone. It works extremely well for very dedicated people, or very casual guilds, but in either of those guilds it plays to the advantage of the people who are in the middle.

    All of that being said - dont be afraid to explore. It's just purples!!! While it's important that loot gets where it needs to be for progression your loot system, while directly effecting it, will have little influence on that. Your most dedicated raiders under every system will be rewarded.

  16. #16
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    Agreed bigmomma, there're flaws in the epgp system, and you got to form the decay anmount and the rewards wisely and according to your own guildrules. If you do this, I can tell you that EPGP system is working rather perfect.

    But still, using the word flawless and loot system in the same wall of text is blasphemy tbh. There are no flawless loot systems, and there'll never be any.

    Gimme a flawless loot system and i'll show you a pig that can fly ;D

  17. #17
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    ClownPoints 2.0

    Coles Notes
    1) You earn Effort Points (EP) for attending raids, killing bosses, and maybe things outside of those.

    2) You earn Gear Points (GP) for winning loot.

    3) You have a priority (PR) equal to EP/(GP + 100)

    4) When a piece of loot is bid, the person with the highest PR wins, subject to the usual alt/recruit/main division.

    That's it!


    Introduction
    ClownPoints 2.0 is based on the EPGP loot system. EPGP is based on the concept of Effort Points and Gear Points. Effort Points quantify the effort each member put towards the guild's goals and Gear Points quantify what each member gets back in return. Loot priority is computed as the quotient of the two: priority (PR) is equal to EP/GP. EPGP is by definition self balancing since priority (and hence chance to receive loot) is proportional to the effort you put and inversely proportional to the rewards you've gotten.

    Simply, after all the bidders have bid their priority is calculated from their EP and GP, and the person with the highest priority wins the item, subject to member/recruit/alt tiers.

    Effort Points
    EP are awarded for the following:

    - 25 EP for being in the raid or on the waitlist 60 seconds after raid tracking starts
    - 25 EP for being in the raid or on the waitlist when raid tracking is closed
    - 30 EP bonus for getting both of the above awards
    - 20 EP for being in the raid or on the waitlist at half time
    - 2 EP every five minutes that you are in the raid or on the waitlist
    - 10 EP for a failed attempt at an as-yet undefeated boss
    - 25 EP for killing a non-trivial boss
    - 10 EP for killing a trivial boss
    - 200 EP bonus for the first kill of a boss
    - EP may be granted at team officer discretion for other service to the guild

    If you don't remove yourself from the waitlist when you log off for the night, you will get zero EP for the night.

    Penalties (either -EP or +GP) may be applied against people who do dumb shit. <example list to follow>

    Gear Points
    GP are gained for the following:

    - Receiving loot in a raid
    - Other things that may arise that don't cause administrative headaches

    EP and GP Decay
    Effort Points and Gear Points decay over time. The rate of decay is 5% per raid. That is, for every raid that is entered into ClownPoints, every member in the system loses 5% of their current EP and GP.

    Mainspec, Offspec, Minimum EP, Base GP
    As always, bid on anything that you would use.

    We retain the concept of mainspec and offspec bids, and as usual an offspec bid costs 1/4 points (gear points in this case.) Bids are classed into 3 tiers, where members take precedence over recruits who take precedence over any alts in the raid. Mainspec bids always take precedence to offspec bids.

    <chart showing priorities here>

    In addition to this, there are EP minimums that apply to members. If you have under 1600EP, you will count as a recruit for loot bids. If you have under 800EP, you will count as an alt for loot bids. As your EP increases, you will automatically bump tiers. Minimums do not apply to recruits. Note that EP minimums replace the old 60% attendance minimum.

    Base GP
    When calculating individual PR for bidders on an item, a base of 100GP will be added to your actual GP. That is PR = EP/(100+GP). This prevents people with zero GP from getting an artificially high priority.

    GP Values
    BidMaster will display the appropriate mainspec and offspec GP costs for items being bid. The gear point cost of items is calculated as GP = itemLevel x slot value

    Slot values
    1.00 Head, Chest, Legs, 2H Weapon
    0.80 Shoulder, Hands, Waist, Feet
    0.70 Trinket
    0.60 Wrist, Neck, Back, Finger, Off-hand, Shield
    0.50 1H Weapon, Ranged Weapon, Wand

  18. #18
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    Implications of the system as we've implemented:

    1- EPs favor attendance AND punctuality both

    2- If you don't remove yourself from the waitlist when you log off for the night, you will get zero EP for the night. No more cheating the system.

    3- Since GPs decay with time, it means the faster you can get an upgrade, on the long run, the higher your PR stays. I.E. Items dropped during the first 2 weeks in Naxx25 will have next to no impact on your PR when we hit the next 25-man when compared to last minute items before a tier switch. Makes sense since we want people to get upgrades FASTER.

    4- A typical 5-bosses raid will net ~260 points (like Hyjal: 4 trivial bosses and one non-trivial boss). An item from our first 25-man will cost between 213 and 106.5 GPs. As we heard so many times already, spend those effing points!

    5- If a raider is in the raid from start to finish, he will get a minimum of ~198 points.

    4 hours = 48 5-minutes parts = 98 presence EPs
    Punctuality, halftime, closing and bonus = 100 EPs
    Add to this number 10 points per boss attempt or trivial kills.

    As you can see, points go will go up FAST.

    6- A member logging in at 9:30, waitlisting, playing for an hour and logging off would gain 44 EPS + boss attempts/kills. 49 if he/she plays for an hour from the start. 49 for the last hour of raid time. The system rewards our most hardcore members more.

    7- Using the 1/10th rule, our dkp hoarding members will only have ~ one raid worth of EPs more than our more active looters.

    8- Using a 5% decay rate, some fun facts:
    a) at 4000 EPs, you will lose 200 EPs per raid, nullifying the presence and time bonii.
    b) Takes 14 raids without looting anything to half your GPs
    c) EP value should stagnate at ~6000 for a perfect raider

  19. #19
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    Here's a model of EP over 60 raids. 100% attendance for the first 10 raids, then two weeks vacation (8 raids), then 11 more raids at 100% attendance, then fade away into the sunset (quit):

    Code:
    raid   start   decay  earned  finish
       1    0.00    0.00  181.32  181.32
       2  181.32    9.07  156.32  328.57
       3  328.57   16.43  168.32  480.46
       4  480.46   24.02  200.32  656.75
       5  656.75   32.84  205.32  829.23
       6  829.23   41.46  167.32  955.09
       7  955.09   47.75  194.32 1101.65
       8 1101.65   55.08  157.32 1203.89
       9 1203.89   60.19  211.32 1355.01
      10 1355.01   67.75  160.32 1447.58
      11 1447.58   72.38    0.00 1375.20
      12 1375.20   68.76    0.00 1306.44
      13 1306.44   65.32    0.00 1241.12
      14 1241.12   62.06    0.00 1179.06
      15 1179.06   58.95    0.00 1120.11
      16 1120.11   56.01    0.00 1064.10
      17 1064.10   53.21    0.00 1010.90
      18 1010.90   50.54    0.00  960.35
      19  960.35   48.02  212.32 1124.65
      20 1124.65   56.23  242.32 1310.74
      21 1310.74   65.54  195.32 1440.52
      22 1440.52   72.03  212.32 1580.81
      23 1580.81   79.04  244.32 1746.09
      24 1746.09   87.30  186.32 1845.10
      25 1845.10   92.26  173.32 1926.17
      26 1926.17   96.31  211.32 2041.17
      27 2041.17  102.06  172.32 2111.43
      28 2111.43  105.57  212.32 2218.18
      29 2218.18  110.91  239.32 2346.59
      30 2346.59  117.33    0.00 2229.26
      31 2229.26  111.46    0.00 2117.80
      32 2117.80  105.89    0.00 2011.91
      33 2011.91  100.60    0.00 1911.31
      34 1911.31   95.57    0.00 1815.75
      35 1815.75   90.79    0.00 1724.96
      36 1724.96   86.25    0.00 1638.71
      37 1638.71   81.94    0.00 1556.78
      38 1556.78   77.84    0.00 1478.94
      39 1478.94   73.95    0.00 1404.99
      40 1404.99   70.25    0.00 1334.74
      41 1334.74   66.74    0.00 1268.00
      42 1268.00   63.40    0.00 1204.60
      43 1204.60   60.23    0.00 1144.37
      44 1144.37   57.22    0.00 1087.15
      45 1087.15   54.36    0.00 1032.80
      46 1032.80   51.64    0.00  981.16
      47  981.16   49.06    0.00  932.10
      48  932.10   46.60    0.00  885.49
      49  885.49   44.27    0.00  841.22
      50  841.22   42.06    0.00  799.16
      51  799.16   39.96    0.00  759.20
      52  759.20   37.96    0.00  721.24
      53  721.24   36.06    0.00  685.18
      54  685.18   34.26    0.00  650.92
      55  650.92   32.55    0.00  618.37
      56  618.37   30.92    0.00  587.45
      57  587.45   29.37    0.00  558.08
      58  558.08   27.90    0.00  530.18
      59  530.18   26.51    0.00  503.67
      60  503.67   25.18    0.00  478.49
    These may be a bit higher than we'll see at the beginning since it assumes boss kills for the most part. The 1600/800 minimums are estimates now. They may get adjusted once we see what the reality of how many EP raids are generating is.

    It works out that coming back from retirement will take 8-10 raids if you got to zero, less if you had extended AFK that didn't take you to zero. We might just immediately zero the EP of people who retire to prevent shenanigans, or set retirees to a higher decay rate - not decided yet

  20. #20
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    Examples
    Here we'll follow the progress of Monkeynutz and Irkubb as the guild raids. (these are extracts from a model I ran of the system)

    First Raid
    Going into the first raid, people only have the pre-seeded EP from the old ClownPoints (see <link>), and zero GP (which means 100GP with the seed value). Our heroes standings are:

    Monkeynutz: 30 EP, 0 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 0.3
    Irkubb: 5 EP, 0 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 0.05

    During the first raid, an item drops that Monkeynutz is interested in, and by happy chance his ratio of 0.3 is enough to win. Monkeynutz is charged 275GP for the item. The raid was worth 246 EP.

    Second Raid
    Going into the second raid, everyone's current EP and GP are diminished by 5%, and add the numbers from the first raid. Our heroes standings are:

    Monkeynutz: 274.5 EP, 275 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 0.732
    Irkubb: 250.75 EP, 0 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 2.507

    In the second raid, an item drops that Irkubb is interested in, but someone else's PR was higher, so he gets none. The raid was worth 225 EP.

    Third Raid
    Going into the third raid, everyone's current EP and GP are diminished by 5%, and add the numbers from the first raid. Our heroes standings are:

    Monkeynutz: 485.775 EP, 261.25 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 1.345
    Irkubb: 463.212 EP, 0 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 4.632

    In the third raid, another item drops that Irkubb is interested in, and he wins it for 250 GP. An item that Monkeynutz was interested in also dropped, but someone else had a higher PR. The raid was worth 265 EP.


    Fourth Raid
    Going into the fourth raid, everyone's current EP and GP are diminished by 5%, and add the numbers from the first raid. Our heroes standings are:

    Monkeynutz: 726.486 EP, 248.187 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 2.086
    Irkubb: 705.052 EP, 250 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 2.014

    And so on down the raids...

    80th Raid
    Going into the 80th raid, our heroes standings are:

    Monkeynutz: 71 raids attended, 10 items bought.
    3061 EP, 450 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 5.560

    Irkubb: 70 raids attended, 8 items bought.
    2763 EP, 283 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 7.200

    And more raids...

    180th Raid
    A new recruit joins the guild - Goombah. He'll be recruit status for the next 8 raids or so during the recruiting period, but as always this doesn't mean no loot - just that members take priority.

    200th Raid
    Monkeynutz: 180 raids attended, 26 items bought.
    3883 EP, 743 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 4.603

    Irkubb: 194 raids attended, 24 items bought.
    4396 EP, 597 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 6.308

    Let's see how Goombah fares at raid 200, only 20 raids since being recruited and 12 raids since becoming a member:

    Goombah: 19 raids attended, 3 items bought.
    2355 EP, 412 GP, PR = EP/(GP+100) = 4.600

    Not bad!


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As others have noted you need a pretty stable raiding core for this to work, which we do. All the modelling I've done is based on historical attendance numbers of members from our current system's database.

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