Def and Res, Working Together for Your Non-Critabl

[Corian]

2 Points in Anticipation would be far better in 2 Points in Deflection. 2% Parry offers the same avoidance as 2% Dodge with some added threat. Also, due to diminishing returns on avoidance, you're better off improving Parry over Dodge since you have more Dodge.

People will ask how is it added threat and that is because after you parry it speeds up your next swing by an often argued amount heh.

Last I heard the 50% speed up camp of thought was winning =D

[Corian]

Something i wanted to add in here just so we are covering all bases about the resilience thing.

I would stack Resilience into my tanking set if i went with a fury/prot Hybrid.

Because of the way Resilience works it would proc your Bloodcraze and your Enrage for you.

Every hit on you has your Resilience based chance to not be crit as the proc rate for each of Bloodcraze and/or Enrage. Separate chance for both each hit.

Don't believe me?
Go stand in a fire with your pvp gear on and watch as sometimes BC procs, sometimes Enrage procs, sometimes both do.

There was also a Blue post a while back confirming that this is indeed how crit received based abilities were activated through resilience. =D

[Roana]

2Also, due to diminishing returns on avoidance, you're better off improving Parry over Dodge since you have more Dodge.

My understanding was that parry/dodge bonuses from talents were exempt from diminishing returns?

[Kazeyonoma]

You are correct Roana, I think vene is mistaking how diminishing returns kicks in. It doesn't care how much your overall avoidance is

say you have 353 dodge rating from gear, and you have 5% base dodge, and 5% talented.

that 353 dodge is affected by the SAME DR as someone who didn't pick up the 5% talented.

This is an important note to mention since many people will think that (if I already have 10% dodge, adding 353 dodge will be subjected to more DR than someone who has 5% dodge and adding 353 dodge.

the dodge rating/defense rating/agility contributions and it's DR is calculated entirely separate from your base % values.

[talisfears]

People will ask how is it added threat and that is because after you parry it speeds up your next swing by an often argued amount heh.

Last I heard the 50% speed up camp of thought was winning =D

On average when you parry an attack it saves you 24% of your swing timer, which could be translated to a 32% haste bonus (for one attack only).

[Satorri]

Out of curiosity, since I lost the train on the dev cycle of this.

Blizz had said they were going to make Resilience a PvP only stat in function (i.e. it does not reduce crit chance of mobs). Is this not actually the case?

As for the value of Defense versus Res, for a prot warrior, I think it's foolish to stack resilience instead of Def. Res can help you reach uncrittability so it isn't worthless, but Defense gives you Miss, Dodge, Parry, and Block chance. The combination is pretty huge value.

[Nuke]

Out of curiosity, since I lost the train on the dev cycle of this.

Blizz had said they were going to make Resilience a PvP only stat in function (i.e. it does not reduce crit chance of mobs). Is this not actually the case?

As for the value of Defense versus Res, for a prot warrior, I think it's foolish to stack resilience instead of Def. Res can help you reach uncrittability so it isn't worthless, but Defense gives you Miss, Dodge, Parry, and Block chance. The combination is pretty huge value.

Resilience is a nice way for new tanks to get to that uncrittable stage of tanking. Now i myself usally over gear heroic instance i run. So i wear a mix of my tanking gear but a lot more of my PVP gear. My dps refelcts that and thats pretty much all i care about when I am doing heroics nowadays. Its not for threat purposes anymore its seeing my DPS being on top of the chart.

[Guard_Khaz'goroth]

Since 3.0 I have been tanking all heroics + kara / ZA in my DPS gear.

I have 350 defence in this gear, however because of so much PvP gear in the mix, I am un-crittable (this is very important).

I lose around 3k health and 30% avoidance, but with nerfed mob damage and excellent healers it hasn't mattered.

[Satorri]

Parry haste works by reducing your swing timer to a minimum. After you parry an incoming attack it knocks your current swing timer down to 20% of the max (if you aren't already at or below it.

I've seen this averaged to a 40% haste, though on some swings it'll be less or none, some it will be more, and off the time of my head I'd wager a prot warrior with a very fast sword won't see nearly the same haste benefit, though it's certainly there, simply because there are smaller windows for the tank to benefit from the parries.

No one has answered my question though. Has anyone recorded to confirm that they are in fact uncrittable thanks to resilience (bearing in mind that the chance is diminished in 5-mans for lower level mobs). I'm rather curious to see if Blizz decided against the change.

[Corian]

I don't think that change ever went in.

I was constantly 2h tanking non heroics in my arena gear and never taking a crit.

Not to mention that Druids were using resilience to finish becoming uncrittable for raid tanking pre 3.0.

[Magnuss]

I don't think that change ever went in.

I was constantly 2h tanking non heroics in my arena gear and never taking a crit.

Not to mention that Druids were using resilience to finish becoming uncrittable for raid tanking pre 3.0.

Heroics are at a different level of defense then bosses. 490 is to be uncritable by a level 73 boss mob. Anything less then that requires a lower number and THEN you have to actually take a crit swing that isnt avoided. Your arena gear probably with the resil put you over the cap for any mobs to crit in that zone.

[Alo]

Though, druids WERE, that was because of the fact they can only dodge, so they only got partial benefit from Defense. So then the resilience helped because the gear it was on increased their dps while making them uncrittable.

Though, I am probably wrong at one point, oh well.

[Satorri]

Also, pre-3.0 is not what we're talking about it. Then it was established that resilience worked and it was WAY better, like Alo said.

Early in the Beta Blizz said in no uncertain terms they wanted to make Resilience an non-stat in pve encounters (which is a big part of why they made Druid's Survival of the Fittest total crit removal, or so I thought). I never tested it though.

Crits, Blizz has explained, are out of every hit. So if the mob has a 5% crit chance, 5% of all the swings are crits, but you could miss/dodge/parry/block a crit, and if you're well on your way to being uncrittable, you might not notice the tiny window that gets through.

I should probably be pestering a Blue for input on this, since no one seems to have confirmed it on live (and it ain't easy, you need a tracker or combat log, and to actually put it together so you can track that).

[Kazeyonoma]

blocking a crit would assume a 2 roll system, nothing has ever been shown to us to believe this, and instead that the roll just takes into account all your combat table values, and crit being only 5% is a small margin, and as you stated, as you reduce your crit chance that 5% drops to minute chances, but resilience does remove crit change in pvp, I can prove it by walking up to doomwalker in my pvp gear and sure he'll kill me soon enough but i can do it 100 times and guarantee that he'll never crit me once, instead of 5 times.

[Satorri]

Sorry, for a long time I've been working off of a specific crit thinking, I went back to figure out where I pulled it from, and it's on WoWwiki:

In June of 2005, a Blizzard representative made the following statement:
"The way WoW calculates crit rate is over ALL attacks. Crit rate is not based on hits only. In other words, if you have a 5% crit rate, that 5% chance includes misses."

Attack table - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

They didn't source it and it's now 3 years old, apparently. But, that's where it came from.

At any rate, I'm continually curious to actually test this, though I'm not eager to go run up to Doomwalker 100 times. =) Maybe go dig out some pure stam/armor green plate, and go have a word with an easily accessible world boss.

[Satorri]

Ok, I did some forum mining and came up with a definitive Blue answer:

Resilience still works in PvE for crit reduction. The desire was originally to not leave it better for Druids and Death Knights to be stacking resilience for tanking, they wanted the PvE options to be just as desirable. They've tried to go about this in other ways, Resilience still works.

Re-commence with your Resilience discussions. =)