Closed Thread
Page 20 of 40 FirstFirst ... 10 18 19 20 21 22 30 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 400 of 800

Thread: Death Knight AOE Spec, MT Spec and Rotations

  1. #381
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    72
    @Caash: to be honest, there's no such thing as DK tanking rotation. You cannot predict some situations, eg. one special attack get dodged or you miss or this specific mob is immune or simply mob dies too quick and you cannot Pestilence. Yes, there is opening sequence I usually use on multiple mobs: DnD, IT, PS, Pest, Unholly Blight, BB. I have to wait after UB one sec or two before I can do Blood Boil, but does it matter?

    But after this sequence I use abilities in some priority order I have in my head. If I feel like more AoE threat will be needed and DnD is up again, I use it. If our DPSers are doing focused fire on single target, I use a lot of Rune Strikes and save Death Runes for Scourge Strikes. I don't think that it is possible to use only one rotation that will work in every situation. It is more possible as DPS DK, but not as tank.

  2. #382
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Right on, Coe, right on. =)

    Priorities over static rotations. There are ideals for building threat but they have to be mitigated by unexpected changes, less than ideal events, and the need to mix in survival abilities as needed.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  3. #383
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3
    wht would be the overall best tank spec for dk and with wht rotations

  4. #384
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Common question, but one without an answer.

    As it stands, and once again the ground is changing and becoming more universal in 3.1, there is no single best spec/rotation.


    Let me say it again, and more clearly:

    There is no best spec.

    Each spec is different, has different strengths and weaknesses, and plays differently.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  5. #385
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Common question, but one without an answer.

    As it stands, and once again the ground is changing and becoming more universal in 3.1, there is no single best spec/rotation.


    Let me say it again, and more clearly:

    There is no best spec.

    Each spec is different, has different strengths and weaknesses, and plays differently.
    So I know and agree about the no best spec response, ive always felt that even in previous patches, however I am scratching my brain on how to best get close to the spec / viability I have now with the new talents in frost. Also I know there is no best rotation but any "optimal" suggestions?

    Here is what I have so far: Frost Tank spec

    2nd edit: someone just posted this one, I think it actually has promise: Another take on Frost
    Last edited by Daugh; 02-24-2009 at 09:30 AM.

  6. #386
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Specs look fine to me.

    The only significant difference I see now (play difference, obviously stuff has moved around) is that Frost has more serious tools for magic dmg durability. When I first read the Unbreakable Armor rewrite, for some reason I imagined a PW:S sort of ability, soaking a static amount of dmg then expiring. The way it looks now is nice. I'll miss the Auras, particularly Unholy, but the improved presences have some interesting potential.

    As for rotations, I think the key thing to understand is not to lock yourself to A>B>C>D repeat, but rather understand the situational value of each move and balance the needs of optimal threat.

    Specifically, make sure your diseases are up, at all times, on all targets. Use your runes to the best effect, whether that be survival or threat. Just the way we balance our gear and specs, the general priorities would go like this:
    1.) Survival, do I have what I need?
    This is a matter of gauging the situation, availabilities of heals, your knowledge of phases or specials incoming, knowing that you might take a big chunk of damage, or knowing that you have a clear spot. The choice is, use the CD/rune/RP for a survival move or not.
    2.) If you don't need the survival, lay on the threat.
    The specifics of threat are closely linked to damage for us. You can figure out your best threat moves ahead of time. Know your raid comp, gauge your previous runs, and figure out which moves do the most damage for your rune cost. Generally speaking that's B, F+U, or FU. Know the math for single target vs multi-target. BS is better than BB on one target, how many targets do you need to hit before BB does more dmg overall. In the situation do you NEED more threat on everything, or bigger threat on the one target. For your spec, gear, and glyphs is IT+PS better or worse than ScS/OB/HB/DS? When? How? Understand what suits the situation best. Blizz has done a lot of balancing to make a lot of abilities equivalent situationally. Know your tools, and know what your spec and glyphs support and why.

    If you want to optimize performance, you have to buckle down and learn your character. The class and the possibilities have become so variable that you can't really set out what the best thing is for everyone.

    I can tell you that starting off should be fairly formulaic. Every spec can get the best long term threat performance from opening with getting both diseases set. Unholy and Blood moves get a nice amount of buffing from each disease, and Frost gets big buffs from FF and BP still ticks for more than a little threat. The diseases combine can and will account for 10-15% of your total damage if you keep them up well and often.

    If you want more specific help though, the best thing to do is to design your spec, pick your glyphs, and identify each of your moves and how much damage you can do with it (along with the circumstances of that dmg, i.e. OB with no diseases, 1 disease, 2 diseases, 3 diseases?). Once you know that, if you still aren't sure, come back and ask specifics here and there are many helpful people who can help you decypher the smart choices. It's not always as clear as you might think.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  7. #387
    has anyone heard about this parry-gibbing going away? when WotLK first came i read up on DK tanking and the general concensus was 2h>DW because of the bigger single target damage (agrro= <3) and because every time you parry the boss' next attack speed increases drastically.

    AS my guild gets more and more geared from 25man runs (tank plate that doesn't have block never seems to drop, damn you prot-a-dins) and their DPS starts climbing higher and higher I find i'm having issues holding aggro at times. i know for a fact that the 0/32/39 DW DPS spec i'm using on our off days generates TONS of aggro (My TPS in blood presence as DW DPS is close to my TPS as deep frost tank in frost presence)

    I've heard that they may be thinking about removing this parry-gibbing from raids or raid bosses, but i'm trying to confirm the rumor before i wipe my raid so many times they yell at me to respec back to 2h before we even down Anub'Rekhan

  8. #388
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    171
    With 3.1 coming up I would practice your skills with a 2H rotation. I have very little experience DW so far with my DK however with 3.1 coming out DW DKs are getting squashed like little bugs by Blizzard.

    From early reports on the PTR, SS is hitting like a Mac-truck, and FS damage is nicely buffed w/ the new BotN. I'm hoping when we get closer to 3.1s release that Satorri will get with me again for some more spec min/max and fine tuning.

  9. #389
    Like i said DW tanking was a Pally's idea, not mine. so far i'm sticking with T-Steel Destroyer (may switch to Inevitable defeat if the thing ever drops) It's hard to convince the army of pallys in my guild (I swear if we wanted to we could make a pally only naxx run) that since there are no 2Hers with +def on them and that DW is in the Frost tree that i shouldn't be carrying Slayer of the Lifeless and the Red Sword of Courage (both of wich are sitting in my bank, Slayer is there in the hope that i get a second one for my RP outfit. i didn't roll on it my guildies gave it to me. IDK why i kept Red)

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    that's my toon if anyone has any advise on how to keep my survivablity where its at but increase threat. I dont think my rotation (priority of moves, not TOTALY fixed rotation) is the issue because i do talk to DK tanks in other guilds and the frost tanks all seem to use more or less the rotations suggested in the first post and have very similar builds to each other and to me.

    I'm the only DK in my guild that even rolls on tank gear in my guild so i have no help from the DPS DKs and was hoping someone here could post something to either help with my aggro or at least convince my guild that 2h tanking is the way to go. (they don't seem to belive that parry-gibbing/parry-hasting exist anymore)

    I'm just glad I don't like blood or unholy tanking because that would probably cause issues
    Last edited by Star Scythe; 02-26-2009 at 09:29 AM. Reason: grammer

  10. #390
    Improve expertise. Your gear is solid. You are above the def cap so possibly swap out those +str gems for expertise or expertise + stam.

    cap hit and expertise per guides posted here. re-examine your rotation per the many posts about the topic to ensure that you are working in some of the higher threat moves more often. If you have solid gear (which you do) and your healers have solid gear, try an unholy + blood AOE tank build for kicks.

    I have not witnessed parry gibbing to be a problem. It may happen once and a while but with my raid makups I am usually one of the last ones standing so tank gibs are not keeping us away from any content.

  11. #391
    The reason i'm so high on Def is because i'm tring to get enough so i can switch to from stoneskin to swordshattering and grabbing that extra 1% avoidance. as it stands i'm at 530 def with swordshattering. As for my lack of expertise I haven't noticed myself getting dodged or parried except once or twice a fight (and i have been looking), while if i try using my DW weapons for dpsing in 2h tank spec (i'm 3% under the DW hit cap for DW in my tank spec) i notice the word "Miss" floating around the mob's head a lot. (because i notice the word "miss" i am the only hit capped tank in a tank heavy guild, so i should be ahead of the aggro curve, since they seem to be able to go AFK and still have aggro while i am working for it more every week)

    I also read on another thread here on tankspot that RP gained from Chill of the Grave directly increases threat. Is this still up to date or would i be better served putting those points into KM?

    As for my rotation i do aoe: IT-PS-pest-HB-BB-FS-FS (with deathchill on HB if its up, and i ALWAYS make sure its up when i pull bosses) and single target is: IT-PS-HB-BS-BS-FS-FS and i always sneak in at least 1 or 2 rune strikes in there unless i'm fighting trash because a.)i don't put effort into trash pulls b.)the trash dies easily, especially AoE trash, so its dead by the time runestrike would hit c.) the pally has all the aggro so there is nothing for me to dodge/parry.
    Last edited by Star Scythe; 02-26-2009 at 11:32 AM. Reason: clarity

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Star Scythe View Post
    The reason i'm so high on Def is because i'm tring to get enough so i can switch to from stoneskin to swordshattering and grabbing that extra 1% avoidance. as it stands i'm at 530 def with swordshattering. As for my lack of expertise I haven't noticed myself getting dodged or parried except once or twice a fight (and i have been looking), while if i try using my DW weapons for dpsing in 2h tank spec (i'm 3% under the DW hit cap for DW in my tank spec) i notice the word "Miss" floating around the mob's head a lot. (because i notice the word "miss" i am the only hit capped tank in a tank heavy guild, so i should be ahead of the aggro curve, since they seem to be able to go AFK and still have aggro while i am working for it more every week)

    I also read on another thread here on tankspot that RP gained from Chill of the Grave directly increases threat. Is this still up to date or would i be better served putting those points into KM?

    As for my rotation i do aoe: IT-PS-pest-HB-BB-FS-FS (with deathchill on HB if its up, and i ALWAYS make sure its up when i pull bosses) and single target is: IT-PS-HB-BS-BS-FS-FS and i always sneak in at least 1 or 2 rune strikes in there unless i'm fighting trash because a.)i don't put effort into trash pulls b.)the trash dies easily, especially AoE trash, so its dead by the time runestrike would hit c.) the pally has all the aggro so there is nothing for me to dodge/parry.
    you answered your own questions then. you are not gearing for agro you are trying to gear for av. you seem educated enough , parse your logs and check your perception against what is really going on in the fight. adjust.

    I dont tank frost because I dislike it. Has more snap threat but the dps and threat I see from unholy+blood has always been better. In the right hands im sure it could be different. Theory crafters will also debate the best case scenario with you all night. Even though the best case scenario hardly ever presents itself.

    At some point gear allows you to make the shift from worrying about av and begin to focus on threat/dps. I think you are there. If youre trying to stay def capped and change a forge you could drop a couple hundred health and gem it. If your healers have gear near your own it shouldnt be a problem.

    With the stuff on PTR you might want to think about a new spec. I think frost will still remain a good entry and progression spec, but when youre trying to pour on the threat and DPS maybe come at it from a new direction. Im sure others will disagree this is just my op.

  13. #393
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    42
    Hi Star Scythe.

    I've had a look to your armory and here is my point of view about your toon. Right you got good stuff, and you want to get ride of that Gargoyle rune. Why, ho why don't you give away that 42 stam gem and put def gem instead ?
    Gemming for def is not bad at all, just go through your gems to the cap, leave your rune, got a new parry rune, and this would be a great improvment. Leave the 40 stam bracer enchant, go for expertise.
    You're hit capped (or so with a Drae in your group) but you miss expertise. I assume that your belt got its buckle right ? You say you have problems with aggro, then leave that +16 str gems and go for exp. Exp is more threat than str for you in your current spec and gear.
    You may want to concider some modis about your spec. Acclimatation doesn't worth the 3 points, my opinion. With theses 3 points you may get Chill of the grave, and complete Epidemic. Theses two talents are threat builders.

  14. #394
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Star, the thing about Dual Wielding and 2-handers at this point, and in 3.1 even more, is simply that Blizz has done everything they can to stomp out one as the clear leader over the other. A lot of people have seen their dual wielding buff mechanics go away and interpret that as "oh noes, no more dual wielding." But it is short-sighted. It is simply that neither has a distinct advantage. They each have their own benefits and drawbacks and that's all.

    I don't know why they'd take away "parry-gibbing" in order to do that they'd have to take away parry haste which would just make dodge = parry (they'd have to equalize ratings as well, so they may as well just make it only dodge). That being said it is not the big fuss people once made it out to be. The reason is two-fold:
    1.) Only raid bosses have a significantly higher parry chance, or the swing damage to make that a concern. And while there are bosses you don't want parrying you more than they have to, a surprising amount of the current bosses either can't parry you, cast spells exclusively, or hit like pansies with melee (read: other damage they do is more significant).
    2.) Provided the amount of expertise it is easy to get on gear now without sacrificing much from other stats, the two styles are not so distinguishable as parry-gib liabilities. Dual wielding gets a higher liability to start, but that liability is reduced more noticeably with every bit of Expertise.

    Either way, don't dual wield because you think it's better or you have to, do it because you have a way to make that work better with the gear/spec/setup you have or want to make. If what you have works, don't bother "fixing" it by changing your routine completely.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  15. #395
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3

    Spec

    Hello everyone,

    I joined today just to share my tank spec with the community and see yall think of it and hopefully it will some of you out.
    I have noticed alot of CD specs floating around yet none have the meat and CD's as this spec i made Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. It has been tried and tested many times over but only in five and ten man's. This is a true CD build with a decent amount of mitigation and a little extra stam. The CD's it offers are Improved Rune Tap - heal yourelf for 20% every 30 seconds or 22% every 30 seconds with the glyph. Mark of Blood - if target hits you it heals you for 4%. Lichborne - Melee attaks have a 25% chance to miss you. Finally Unbreakable Armor - increases armor by 25% strength by 10% and parry by 5%. these are on top of your basic CD's like Icebound Fort, Anit-magic, and Summon Ghoul/Death Pact.

    You will also notice other things this spec does for you. Blade barrier a constant 5% parry if you even half wittedly try. Veteran of the Third War 6% Strength and Stam gains, meaning more health and more Mitigation. Toughness 30% more armor, who cant use more armor? increase both your hit and crit chances via Dark Conviction and Nerves of Col Steel. Improved Icy Talons increasing everyones DPS and your own threat constantly (as long as u keep your DoTs up). Frigid Dreadplate 3% less chance for melee attacks to hit you, that's right 3% more mitigation. Frost Aura and Spell Deflection help out alot with those pesky casters. Between Howling Blast and Morbidity talents mixed in with Glacier Rot AoE aggro is not a problem at all. You get epidemic which means less time dotting so the equals more time hitt and getting more threat. Finally Anticipation 5% more dodge enough said.

    Now many of you are probably wanting tosee a rotation. Well witht his spec I cant give you that since every situation will call for something different.

    To summarize this is what you get from this spec, a consistent rotation of CD's to be used as you feel they are needed at your fingertips, Great AoE threat, Over 13% MItigation, 6% increased stamina, hit, crit, mor AP, more armor, and improved raid DPS through improved Icy Talons.

    Thank you for reading and I highly encourage you to try this even if it is Nexus. It will take getting use to, but once you do you'll be happy you did.

    -Dreoyast

  16. #396
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    It's a nice build, Dreo, and you string together things you don't often see people taking (namely going with Mark of Blood and going into Frost for UA instead of Bone Armor). I'll tell you, the breakdown I see on each build like this is a pretty straight forward one:

    Strong survival, but limited threat. I don't mean to say it can't keep pace on threat, but I haven't gotten a build like this to keep up with the DPS most classes are capable of with strong t7.5 gear and a smart player at the helm.

    It has a LOT of great survival tools though, out of curiosity, which glyphs do you like with your build?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  17. #397
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3
    Currently useing:

    Glyph of Rune Tap - For the extra healing as forementioned, and also a heal for your party.
    Glyph of Rune Strike - More Threat.
    Glyph of Death and Decay - More Threat.
    Glyph of Horn of Winter - Hate re-blowing mid fight throws everything off this makes you do it only twice vice 3 times.
    Glyph of Bloodtap - So I can activate a Death Rune on call w/o the taking DMG helps alot on you rotation so u can pop the CD's w/o getting thrown off.
    Glyph of Raise Dead - Really couldnt find any other decent minor glyphs and this allows you to take advantage of the 40% heal with no cost to yourself.

    As far as threat goes I have never even had an issue with it, and I only put out around 1k DPS. owever, as stated with a smart player behind the helm I can generate alot more threat by using my DnD and Rune Strike every time available, also use alot of Obliterates. With AoE mobs this spec makes it very easy, DnD-Icy Touch-Plague Strike - Pestilence - Howling Blast - Blood Boil - Howling Blast - Blood Boil- rinse and repeat.

  18. #398
    Ive tried a few builds simmilar to this one. I think after the patch they will be more viable. My experience is similar to Satorri in that threat can often become an issue among other highly geared DPS classes.

    I tried the blood / unholy hybrid Here but found that anything beyond single target tanking was a bit of an issue. I had to give up on tweaking it for more reliability.

    I am going to take another stab at it post patch when some of the skills are moved around. I think if I had UB earlier in the build, threat would have been much easier to manage.

    I may try your build just for kicks because I do like some of the mitigation. It may work better for lesser geared tanks who need the mitigation and not the threat. I am finding that I need to focus more on DPS and less on tanking talents these days.

  19. #399
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9
    Grest dissussion here! The only thing is I have failed to see many DW specs pst 3.1, the norm seems to still be frost but please take a look at this spec! Let me know what you all think with the glyphs I still think it gets most mitigation while getting the benifits of self healing from blood. Either comment or post other ideas! The only thing about this spec that I dislike is the lack of Death runes but it makes for a very stable rotation.

    DnD > IT > PS > HS > HS > rune dump

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...6&version=9626

  20. #400
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3
    seems to me like you are going for a consistant mitigation and a great threat building spec that being said i would tak the points out of necrosis and put it in morbidity and ravenous dead. Will increase you aggro by providing more DMG and DnD has a high threat out put nad the extra strength will also increase your parry. Also if you are not going to get annihilation then epidemic is next to useless unless you dont use obliterate, so keeping in with the threat generation theme would be better spent in vicious stirkes since that is used consistently.

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts