Death Knight F.A.Q: Questions? Answers right here!

[Krenian]

Unholy has a real awkward style of play. I don't like it as DPS or Tanking. Just how it is I guess.

[Jaeden]

How odd. For me Unholy is completely easy and intuitive, but tanking and DPS. I personally had issues with working a Frost rotation and I had threat issues in blood which I'm sure was due to unfamiliarity with it.

Unholy's rotation is thus:

Single: IT->PS->BS->BS->SS->UB
SS->SS->SS

Multiple: DnD->IT->PS->Pest->UB
BB->SS->SS->BB(I think that's how rune cd work out)

Funny thing is, that's for both DPS and tanking. You only need to add in the occasional HoW if you don't have the RP for UB due to RS :P

[Krenian]

Oh I know how the rotation goes. I just don't like having to rely on a glyph to refresh my diseases. It's annoying and removes my attention from my screen just to see if it's been refreshed and then I miss something important.

I think I'd like Unholy more if I actually used Power Auras correctly. The problem is that I don't think I can configure it so that it tells me when the glyph goes off. If it's possible to do that, let me know, I might try it out. (Been wanting to use Power Auras for Frost when KM goes up so I'm going to have it by 3.2 anyway.)

[Satorri]

Well, the glyph no, but you can make prominent disease trackers. Normally I rely on RuneWatch, but there was a time where that was glitching something awful so I have power auras ready to go.

I know what you mean though, not being sure if you refreshed it or not, but it is definitely worth using, especially now that Reaping is so easy to slip into a tank build.

For Frost, Power Auras is great. Killing Machine and Rime (proc is called Freezing Fog) procs are easy easy to use without staring at bars for refreshes on abilities. I've been enjoying using it for general ability readiness on short CD stuff, like rather than just a Rime proc, I have an HB icon that pops up when it's usable.

[Krenian]

Yeah I'll have to play with Power Auras at one point, potentially come 3.2 if I wanna start learning how to weave my Frost Strikes while doing my dual wielding. I'm sure with weaving, I'll tighten how the rotation goes and it'll make some great DPS time.

Right now, as Blood, I just don't see how I need PA. Nor do I really need it in Unholy dual wielding right now. I don't use the glyph with my build and just use scourge strike often enough. Easier that way for me without having to deal with the necessity of disease watch. And as much as I like Rune Watch, it still would distract me from the main window and in a fight where you have to watch for a lot of things (Yoggy comes to mind), I don't need diseases as an extra one.

[Satorri]

Actually, what I use it for most right now is to more easily track buffs I want to know about.

Specifically, I have an indicator of when MD and TotT are up, I have indicators with timers for each of my CDs so I can see as it lasts and when it falls off, and I have health indicators so I know what region of my health I'm in for the various Blood effects (not at all necessary but a nice subtle way to track how often I'm getting my 10% from B-G, more than you might think).

[Blanket]

I know hit cap is 8% (or 263), but I was on WoW-Heroes the other day looking a High geared Unholy DK's and I notice that their hit rating was about 200 and up. I was wondering if this was doable cause these ppl couldn't have gotten +2500 gear score without not knowing what they where doing.

[Corian]

I am Blood 53/8/10 with Dis/RS/VB glyphs.
The World of Warcraft Armory

As long as i'm the one being targeted i have absolutely no issues with threat as I have Rune Strike Macroed to every ability and no RP is never a problem.

Frost was ok with the lil bit extra avoidance and midigation but the rotation is clunky, too RNG and lets face it....annoying.

UH was great threat but is by far the worst avoidance and midigation spec with THE worst def cooldown in lolboneshield.

Blood has prolly the best sustained and reliable threat of the 3, more health and THE best def cooldown in Vamp Blood.
Blood gets complete and total use out of our highest single threat ability, Rune Strike. You get 3-4 Rune Strikes off in a row and no one is catching you and if any crit....cya.
Even AOE threat is pretty nasty on second rotation using 6 bloodboils in a row.

Yep unless something drastically changes Blood is the way to go imo.

[neorr]

Hi, been reading here for a long time but posted coz i couldnt find anything on this:

what would generate for aggro theoretically:

The RS glyph which gives RS 10% more critchance or Pestilence Glyph which would allow me to swing more HS in my rotation?

[Satorri]

I assume from the vague details that you're Blood?

RS will *usually* give you more threat overall, but Glyph of Disease will make your rotation simpler and will still boost your threat even in ideal modelling. Depending on your gear and play style they may be even, but RS *could* pretty easily win in a pure TPS race.

[Krenian]

RS is pretty simple: Gives you an extra 10% chance to crit with an ability you're always key'ing up. With that in mind, you simply get extra DPS out of it.

Pestilence Glyph as a Blood tank will be a little tricky considering you're using one of your main runes to refresh your disease. Remember that your Pestilence uses a Blood rune, which means you're going to sacrifice your main TPS attack: HS. So in a way, you technically don't get any extra HS. You get an extra Death Strike, which is good to keep yourself up with that extra 10% health per strike.

To be honest, it's mostly like what Satorri said: It really depends on your style of play. I absolutely loathe the Pestilence Glyph and simply do not like it's dependency and the ability to potentially use an AoE attack to keep your diseases up. Come Icecrown, you might have to CC and Pestilence will lose it's luster, especially if you have the minor glyph and it increases it's range. Nothing like breaking CC and having your group wipe because of a glyph.

[neorr]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. i will think about them and is still questions left i will surely come again.

(@satorri: i will add my DK to my profile but meanwhile, this is my armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory - i use exp food btw...and i have the PdC ring with exp)

[Halgreg]

Greets all,

I've recently started playing a DK, mainly as a blood spec tank. Most of my loot won in raids will be tanking plate and such, so I'm not too worried about that. However, I want my dual spec to be DPS oriented.

My question is, between Unholy and Frost, which DPS spec is less gear dependent? Put another way, if I were to gear my dps set solely on emblems, which spec would give me the best bang for my buck?

Thanks,
Hal

[Satorri]

Pestilence Glyph as a Blood tank will be a little tricky considering you're using one of your main runes to refresh your disease. Remember that your Pestilence uses a Blood rune, which means you're going to sacrifice your main TPS attack: HS. So in a way, you technically don't get any extra HS. You get an extra Death Strike, which is good to keep yourself up with that extra 10% health per strike.

I don't think this is quite right. Look at the two alternatives. You're coming to your third rune set (i.e. apply diseases the first, DS a couple death runes, then next rune set spam 4 HS's and a DS, which will leave us with 2 death runes, 2 blood runes, and an FU pair, as our diseases are ready to fall off). If you have Glyph of Disease, you just hit one of your 4 runes available for Pest and get 3 HS and a DS. If you do not have that glyph, instead you hit IT/PS and 4 HS's. Otherwise you'll usually have any of your 6 runes available to use for Pestilence, and when that happens you're trading IT/PS for Pest and HS (which is what he was talking about).

Glyph of Disease will open up some to get extra moves in there, though the gain isn't THAT big as you're trading IT/PS for a move that doesn't do damage or threat and a space for a move that does.

(And DS is 15% health for a talented Blood Knight, Kren, for shame!)

[Fathom]

My question is, between Unholy and Frost, which DPS spec is less gear dependent? Put another way, if I were to gear my dps set solely on emblems, which spec would give me the best bang for my buck?

(From a frostie perspective, and assuming you mean dw rather than 2h frost, so take it for what you will)

Both of them are fairly solid specs at the moment. Neither has stat 'caps' to hit before you can become really effective (unholy is a 2h spec with low hit requirement, dw frost doesn't aim to hit cap it's white swings, both take all the hit talents that are applicable to them, and both have significant magic damage meaning ArP is not a major concern). Both are pretty much bread and butter stack str/ap/crit and poke the boss kind of specs. Both can put out very good dps in rather meh gear if played well.

The effective differences are probably concentrated to 2 core issues:

A) Player ability. Both specs have a number of stupid dk tricks that push players from dktard to zomgdps. If you feel more comfortable with one playstyle over the other, that's very possible enough to make a non-trivial difference in dps.

B) Weapon availability. Unholy is much less dependent on the particulars of your weapon stats. A larger portion of it's dps comes from non-strike abilities (diseases/ghoul/gargoyle/etc.) that are driven by stats not weapon damage range. Conversely frost enjoys much bigger benefits from having big slow high top-end 1hs. The rub of course is, while this means that unholy is probably more tolerant of a bad weapon, being a 2h spec you're going to be competing for 2h drops with every half assed retadin/huntard/dps warrior and most of the other dk's in the game, whereas frosties only have to step on the necks of the few combat rogues and enhance shaman and occasional dw hunter floating around to get their grubby hands on good weapons.

eta: fortunately gearing for the two spec's outside of weapon choice isn't wildly different, so if you suddenly come into a good weapon for the spec you're not, you're probably only a spec change and glyph swap away being able to exploit it.

[Krenian]

Greets all,

I've recently started playing a DK, mainly as a blood spec tank. Most of my loot won in raids will be tanking plate and such, so I'm not too worried about that. However, I want my dual spec to be DPS oriented.

My question is, between Unholy and Frost, which DPS spec is less gear dependent? Put another way, if I were to gear my dps set solely on emblems, which spec would give me the best bang for my buck?

Thanks,
Hal

On a purely gear level? Unholy. It's more gear friendly than Frost is.

On a fun factor, well that's just your choice. Play what you feel would be best however there are some things you just have to be reminded between both trees: One's a dual wielding tree, the other's a two handed tree (With a build that does do dual wielding as well, mind you.)

But to answer your question: You'll get more bang for your buck as Unholy just due to the fact Unholy simply is far gear friendlier than your Frost damage is. (It isn't to say you wouldn't do well in Frost with the gear, not at all. It just means that Frost tends to have a bit more gear mix up than most of the emblems give you.)

[PosiJoel]

So should there be an update, or revamp or something to this thread?

Or at least a discussion on the changes in 3.3

I've gone from 3.1 Unholy, to 3.2 Blood, now I'm 3.3 DW Frost (mostly for a better raid composition)

I use the 1 disease rotation with DW Frost counting on Rime/Killing Machine procs to do the damage for me.
I glyph for Howling Blast, Icy Touch (what a nice change), and Obliterate.

Rotation is simply

HB > BSx2 > OB (faceroll)

If OB procs a Rime, use HB, if not dump with Frost strike and continue on with OBs. I only use BS's to convert to Death Runes.
The rotation is simple, easy to keep track of, and easy to fix if you mess it up a little.

The only real problem I've seen is missed swings; which as we all know = 0 DPS.
But it doesn't seem to be difficult to catch back up to rotation if you miss a swing (that isn't white damage).

I think my armory is attached to my name; Fallagathor is my DK.

[Krenian]

So should there be an update, or revamp or something to this thread?

Or at least a discussion on the changes in 3.3

I've gone from 3.1 Unholy, to 3.2 Blood, now I'm 3.3 DW Frost (mostly for a better raid composition)

I use the 1 disease rotation with DW Frost counting on Rime/Killing Machine procs to do the damage for me.
I glyph for Howling Blast, Icy Touch (what a nice change), and Obliterate.

Rotation is simply

HB > BSx2 > OB (faceroll)

If OB procs a Rime, use HB, if not dump with Frost strike and continue on with OBs. I only use BS's to convert to Death Runes.
The rotation is simple, easy to keep track of, and easy to fix if you mess it up a little.

The only real problem I've seen is missed swings; which as we all know = 0 DPS.
But it doesn't seem to be difficult to catch back up to rotation if you miss a swing (that isn't white damage).

I think my armory is attached to my name; Fallagathor is my DK.

This was more of a guide when Wrath came out than anything. Both myself and Satorri have our guides in the related sections of the site. Satorri in particular has many different guides when it comes to tanking. I pretty much have the gist of the DPS section covered in my guide, which you will find in my signature. Feel free to browse around.

[bambou1000]

Dancing Rune Weapon bring aggro to his owner ?
I come from wowhead and it seem to have a thread in tankspot which explain that now drw give aggro ! on this page Oo
I don't find the thread on your forum.

[Satorri]

Dancing Rune Weapon counts as its own entity/pet/guardian with its own threat.

DRW never transfers threat to the DK who uses it.