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Thread: Death Knight F.A.Q: Questions? Answers right here!

  1. #41
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    Could be, I haven't been dodged in a while =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  2. #42
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    HAHA... win

  3. #43
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    Dodge soft cap is indeed 6.5% depending on race and weapon use.

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  4. #44
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    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=00550010000000000000000000032505051105301123012021 31350005000000000000000000000000000
    This is a tank build i came up with for frost that keeps up in damage and seems to generate plenty of threat. Basically the rotation goes IT-Pest-HB and just spam it as it becomes available.
    DnD can be used at the start if you have BT up to gain an extra Death Rune and RS/FS should be spammed constantly as you will always have enough runic for them, it keeps your dps up between the heavy HB bursts.
    You can avoid wasting KM procs by switching targets early and spamming Pest <ty for removing the cd blizz> rather then wasting it on a reapplication of IT. Pop mitigation as needed - almost always IBF right at the start since its cd is so fast and you usually get to use it again before the end of a fight. Oblit is almost never used as RS and HB are better threat producers.
    I understand I lost a little mitigation in exchange for dps but I do like to make sure my threat doesn't go anywhere. This post is meant for a suggestion only and not to tell anyone how to build thier toon. That is up to the player himself as everyone has different veiwpoints on what to get and what not to get. Happy Hunting! <sry bout the yellow werdz dun know how to linkz yet (first time long time fan)>
    Last edited by 42j0e; 01-30-2009 at 07:49 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 42j0e View Post
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=00550010000000000000000000032505051105301123012021 31350005000000000000000000000000000
    This is a tank build i came up with for frost that keeps up in damage and seems to generate plenty of threat. Basically the rotation goes IT-Pest-HB and just spam it as it becomes available.
    DnD can be used at the start if you have BT up to gain an extra Death Rune and RS/FS should be spammed constantly as you will always have enough runic for them, it keeps your dps up between the heavy HB bursts.
    You can avoid wasting KM procs by switching targets early and spamming Pest <ty for removing the cd blizz> rather then wasting it on a reapplication of IT. Pop mitigation as needed - almost always IBF right at the start since its cd is so fast and you usually get to use it again before the end of a fight. Oblit is almost never used as RS and HB are better threat producers.
    I understand I lost a little mitigation in exchange for dps but I do like to make sure my threat doesn't go anywhere. This post is meant for a suggestion only and not to tell anyone how to build thier toon. That is up to the player himself as everyone has different veiwpoints on what to get and what not to get. Happy Hunting! <sry bout the yellow werdz dun know how to linkz yet (first time long time fan)>
    Umm.. I understand your build is a "suggestion" but at the same time the build is recommending abilities that most people just skip now, (acclimation/frost aura) or are not that helpful (1 point in annihilation? Runetap.) You suggest that OB is just about never used yet you spend 1 point in a talent for it. Also, What mitigation did you give up to insure your threat was a constant? You understand most of the cooldowns in the frost tree are geared towards avoidance (not taking damage at all) and not mitigation (taking less damage when hit) The exceptions being the extra armor gained by UB and Acclimation.

  6. #46
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    Come on now, Khell, there are talents worth picking on and ones that are not. Rune Tap is anything but useless, and while I agree taking less than 3 pts in Annihilation is a little flimsy (I prefer all or nothing on the Oblit part), there is more to the talent than just the Oblit buff.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  7. #47
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    I get a blank screen on WoW's site so I can't comment.

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  8. #48
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    something i have noticed as a DK tank, ppl seem to be reverting back to should we DW ALOT... the answer is NO, for tanking purposes get a high stam 2h with either agil or str on it, then put rune of the stoneskin gargoyle on it... very simple and it adds 25 def skill... not def rating, this makes it overly simple for hitting the 540 def cap, i dont know if it will be of any help to anyone but i love my spec and want to share it.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    comments are always welcome

  9. #49
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    DWing isnt a NO answer. Its totally viable and with the 1H weapons with plus def on them, its like getting that stoneskin without actually using up the rune slot. With the propure gear, DW can but just as good as 2H. I really dont like people stating absolutes. DK's are by no means an absolutes class.

  10. #50
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    Agreed, I'd personally rather DW and get the statistics from two weapons and +4% parry (one of each of the single hand swordshattering rune)

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandar View Post
    something i have noticed as a DK tank, ppl seem to be reverting back to should we DW ALOT... the answer is NO, for tanking purposes get a high stam 2h with either agil or str on it, then put rune of the stoneskin gargoyle on it... very simple and it adds 25 def skill... not def rating, this makes it overly simple for hitting the 540 def cap, i dont know if it will be of any help to anyone but i love my spec and want to share it.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    comments are always welcome
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...ying-myth.html

    Please read and inform yourself of how Dual Wielding works before you state certain things. You can easily get the 25 defense number to cap yourself through two weapons, as well as other stats than just pure stamina, including 4% extra parry rating. Feel free to read and comment about it, as the thread's more of a discussion about it.

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  12. #52
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    Hi guys

    Firstly, I just want to explain that I'm new not only to TS but also the tanking scene in general.
    Been playing WoW since about June '05 as an Alliance resto Druid, started to fall out of favour with the game about halfway through the original Naxx, quit for a while then in bc did some casual Horde play on various toons, mostly grinding however and no heroic/raid ecounter of any notable mention.

    Christmas comes along and gf buys me WotLK. Tried it, rolled a DK toon and POW! I'm loving the gameplay all over again, although I can't help thinking - being an old 40 man raid content veteran - that the game has been somewhat 'buffed' so to speak, generally making progression much easier, no doubt aimed at the more casual gamestyle.

    Anyway, on to my being here today....

    So, I've pretty much 'tooned' my dk up to 80 using a failry hybrid - mainly blood orientated - build and have now decided to take a more serious attitude towards my gameplay, not in the sense that I am no longer playing for fun, more in the sense that I can be the best I can be with my char.

    Now, I went ahead and joined a guild, which funnily enough was the very first guild I was back in 4 tears ago, and they have a fairly casual atittude towards the game, and at the moment are finding their feet in Naxx 10 Man.
    Being a shortage of tanks in the guild - there actually being only one active Prot Warrior - I decided to support their progression by speccing myself up as a frost tank with the little knowledge I had from a tanking perspective. One thing I will mention here is that my gf also plays a resto druid, so as you can imagine, levelling up together was no hardship and we pretty much ploughed through the 55 - 80 content

    So, there I was, trawling as many forums/guides as I could re gear/talents/specs/rotations etc. ...and man... there is so much ambiguous inofmation out there it was making my brain bleed lol
    Having said that, the Dk being still as new as it is, there is so much more to come, I have no doubt about that.

    I put together my build and gear, based around what I've interpreted from what I've read from various sources, the majority being TankSpot and off I marched into my first Heroic, Titansteel in hand, slightly shaking in my boots in case I failed miserably...and...... WOW....this is me! I couldn't believe the sheer enjoyment I got from the tanking experience compared to other classes I've played. All I can say is that I wish I'd done it years ago.

    Tanked a few heroics now, and done a couple of o/t in 25 man OS and am currently o/t twice weekly in Naxx 10 man for the guild.
    I belive my gear and build delivers what it should, but I also believe I can also fine tune what I do have, although for that I am goind to need some more detailed, expert help and advice, hence my presence here today

    If you don't mind, I'd appreciate you guys taking a look at what I currently have:-

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...am&n=W%C3%A0ke

    (Realm: [EU]Hellcream - Char: Wke)

    I have managed to hit cap myself at 7.11% (+1% racial) and I am def capped at 694 DR (including tanking sigil and without SG).

    The concern and questions I now have are my understanding of prioritising other stats.
    In my own mind, being an avoidance tank, I'm not sure if I'm lending too much weight to stacking dodge, and am I doing so at the expense of str/ap and/or Expertise.
    With my current build, my rotation tends to be IT > PS > OB >BS > BS > OB on single targets while slotting in RS wherever possible.

    However, being mainly an o/t at the moment and also doing a fair amount of heroics, I also find that due to me having to 'gather mobs up' I am generally using DnD whenever available, sometimes at the cost of passing on an OB. Indeed I will generally open with a DnD to get the initial group aggro, hit with IT > PS > Pestilence > BS and wait for my next DnD cooldown.
    My current dps is circa 950-1000 while using this style and I'm actually wondering if it's enough? Again, should I be swapping out some of the dodge gear/gems for str/expertise ones?

    Again, any feedback or advice, both positive or negative is well received and I therefore offer my thanks in advance.

    Greets

    Wke

  13. #53
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    (one small thing, could someone with mod privileges split Wake's post into its own thread? kthxluvu =D)

    And Wake! You clearly have a good idea what you're doing with your toon, and while I can see your choices clearly there are several things that I (personally) would change or avoid.

    1.) In general, I would be VERY careful about using the Sigil to become uncrittable to everything over 80. That can be a big risk depending on circumstances. It may not be hard to maintain but it is a concern. If you were to adjust other things to get you up to at least 535 defense skill (uncrittable to all but raid bosses) or 540, the sigil would then just be a happy avoidance/IBF buff, instead of a potential liability. This isn't necessary, just for thinking.

    2.) Hit capping is all well and good for threat (though I should point out IT, HB, and DnD are not hit capped, though in your single target rotation that's less of a concern), however, and this is a very big deal, Expertise is FAR more important than hit for a good measure. Until you reach 26 Expertise it will give you DOUBLE the improvement in chance to hit with all of your melee attacks (for you, everything but IT, FS, RS, and HB). In addition to that, it will also reduce incoming damage by a margin by reducing the amount you are parried by mobs, which in turn keeps them from swinging more often. I would spend a lot less trying to be hit capped, and alot more attention on increasing your expertise, especially when you rely and spec for OB and BS.

    3.) You've geared a lot for dodge, and I don't mean to say that is bad, though you should be wary as a DK with focusing TOO much on a single survival component. We are avoidance tanks, yes, and your avoidance will be very high without even gemming or enchanting for it. Be careful not to neglect your other stats. Stamina is an easy one for us to get a lot of benefit from with our +% stam talents and our Frost Presence health buff. This is really only a matter with a couple of enchants, specifically bracers and boots. You can pick up 62 stam from those two spots at the expense of 12 def rating, 12 hit rating, and 12 crit rating. The defense is easy to make up elsewhere and I would think the extra ~700 health would be more noticeable in your tanking than a little bit of hit rating.

    4.) My last bit of input is on talents. My disclaimor is this, you should make the final decisions on where points go careful, and deliberately, but you should decide yourself. Someone who specs deliberately will always surpass the person who just copies the cookie cutter spec and doesn't understand why. There are a couple of things I think could make noticeable changes:

    Cuttable:
    1.) Merciless Combat (Frost) = you only have 1 pt here, but this is one of the last places I'd put points as a tank. My rationale is simply that this is a threat talent for us, and only in very specific situations (namely boss with less than 35% health, everything else dies too fast). This talent is designed to be an anti-enrage, if you need bonus threat at this point, you have bigger problems. This would be my first cut.
    2.) Endless Winter (Frost) = this can be great for PvP, and has some value in PvE to be sure. That being said this is really neither a tanking buff, nor a threat buff in a regular sense. While it has its uses, this would be my second cut in favor of talents that will give you a LOT more positive feedback.
    3.) 2-hand Specialization (Blood) = this is a fine talent, it will buff your single target threat, to be sure. That being said, it is a single element buff and has no other value, and as such it would be one of the early on the cut list.
    4.) Morbidity (Unholy) = this is very popular to take with Frost tanks because, as I understand it, they want to rely no DnD for aoe threat, not trust to HB. Now, on careful examination there are 2 big reasons I do not take this as a tank: first, half the itemization is wasted on Death Coil which you will almost never use, and second, the only reason to take this is to use DnD on CD. As Frost I do not, would not, use DnD on CD. If you want to set it early on a pull to ensure foundation threat, fine, that works, but I would not be trying to play out rune CD's in combat to get DnD out as soon as you can, you are better suited using those runes for your other abilities, to be sure. I would snip this. If you DnD on CD, I'd reconsider that aspect of your rotation, try an extra pestilence/BB/BS and a HB instead, and if you don't DnD on CD recognize that this is essentially 3 pts wasted for no effect.
    5.) Epidemic (Unholy) = This is a fine talent, again, don't get me wrong. However, as Frost I frequently will go without this because I will IT often, and Pest to disease juggle rather than letting diseases run longer. This is by no means a bad choice, but it is one of the last places that I would pull points if I were trying to optimize some other stuff.

    Talents to check out:
    1.) Bladed Armor (Blood) = I can't say this enough, as a DK tank, you will have upwards of 27-30k armor. 5 pts in this talent with 28k armor is worth ~780 AP, and that is a HUGE buff that will trickle down to every move and threat causing ability. There is very little that doesn't get buffed by AP one way or another. The way Unbreakable Armor works, this also has a big synergy. If you have 28k armor, and glyphed UA, UA on top of the Strength=AP buff, also will give you another ~300 AP from the armor buff. This is a very powerful talent as a tank, and should not be overlooked without careful deliberation.

    2.) Killing Machine (Frost) = this talent is expensive at 5 points, and on the surface crits may seem like something you wouldn't normally bank on as a tank. However, this is significant buff for a tank. The recently re-worked mechanism makes it so that tanks actually get noticeable value out of it, and it is a lot more than a small threat buff. I've had people saying this is worth anywhere from 20-40% crit buffing to HB, FS, and IT, 3 of your major dmg dealers.

    3.) Chill of the Grave (Frost) = this is often overlooked, but severely underestimated in my recollection. First off, the bonus RP generated is a threat buff. Second, the more RP you can generate, the more you can use your FS on top of RS while tanking. FS is a move not to be underestimated as it cannot be dodged/parried/blocked, making it a substantially higher threat value with minimal survival concern (parries are always a factor to be controlled when possible). This isn't high on my list as a must-have, especially not if you routinely have BoSanc, but it is worth trying out.

    4.) Deathchill (Frost) = this is one, like Killing Machine, that you may think of as kind of a "why would I rely on crits as a tank" sort of deal. The key to recognize is that for 1 pt you can guarantee a crit on the move of your choice, once every 2 min. This has significant control value if you use it smartly and on CD. Personally, I like to use it as a HB buff on group pulls, or a solid cementing early hit on a boss. That guaranteed crit can give you a great head start on the threat game, and it comes at the cost of only 1 talent pt.

    Notice I did not try to give this as a step by step, move these points here, kind of feedback. I think the best thing is simply to consider any points I, or others, have made that you may not have considered, and adjust your spec as YOU see fit. Your DK is your own, if you're going to let other people pick your spec/gear/rotation you may as well let them play your toon as well. Make it your own, always. =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  14. #54
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    Hi Satorri and thank you very much for your feedback. Firstly, my apologies for not responding sooner but it's been a hell of a week with one thing and another.

    It's nice to be able to return to this kind of response rather than the usual "why are you doing that you muppet, do it like this, my way is pr0!1!!!".

    Anyway, taken on board your suggestions and have actually gone away and put a few of them into practise; some I found effective, some I didn't, or rather decided on an alternative route.

    You can view my current build, which I'm very happy with atm, as per the original post.

    Firstly, Bladed Armour - How the hell did I miss this one?! What a difference it's made to my threat potential and dmg output, prrobably a 40-50% uplift, I can't thank you enough for pointing that one out and Id definitely deem that a must have talent.

    Hit Cap vs Expertise - For some reason I was very hung up on the hit cap thing to such an extent that I wouldn't leave the house without having the 8%. I've kind of let go of that now and while not neglecting it, I'm not prioritising it so much over other stats. While I have taken on board your comments about the Expertise, I'm still not 100% happy that I fully have my head round it, but, the penny will drop at some point in the near future and I'm sure I'll end up slapping myself I have to say, I can't imagine it's going to be easy hitting the 26 cap on this one, but, as with the hit, I'm not getting hung up about it for now, I think I'm currently sat at 16, although I do have the cauterizing band which stacks a fair bit on.

    I see your point about the DEF and relying on the sigil and for the time being have gone back to SG on weapon. This was a move I was considering anyway, just because of the difficulty I was having sacrificing other stats for the DEF. The 4% parry from Swordshattering is very nice but I think a few more gear upgrades are required before I can afford myself this 'luxury'.

    Dodge - Again, I knew I was gimping other stats for this and have swapped most of the gems out for stamina, much to my healers delight

    Morbidity - See where you're coming from on this one, however, my current gameplay revolves a lot around 5 man heroics and o/t Naxx/OS 10& 25. What this generally means is that I am relying on D&D cd, not necessarily for holding groups together, more scooping them up if you follow my meaning. An example might be Gothik; at phase 1 I'm gathering up the adds on the living side and D&D makes this so much easier. Having said that, I have chipped a point off this talent as the -10 secs is sufficient for my needs, I will review this again going forward.


    Epidemic - Tried it on the base 12 secs and having been so used to working at 18 secs I found it difficult to maintain in my current rotations; what I have therefore done is cut it to 15 which is more manageable for me at the moment and post patch 3.1 I believe that the base talent will be 15 secs anyway so hey presto! free talent point.



    Killing Machine - With the demands of my current build, this for me would be somewhat of a luxury. With that in mind, the single point I had available I decided to use in the 'guaranteed crit' of Deathchill. This was a suggestion of yours anyway, and I did try it in one of my earlier builds, again, more as a luxury, however, with my re-spec I found that it was the most useful place to put my 1 leftover point/placeholder; it's just a case now of getting used to remembering it in my rotation.



    All in all, your post has helped my understanding of the builds a great deal. so again, thank you. I look forward to 3.1 coming along and having to re-think the whole thing again but hopefully Blizz will be sparing us 'pure' tanks a thought and accomodate accordingly

    And finally, I'll finish on a little note to the guys (& possibly girls?) at Tankspot in general. Without wanting to appear sucky, good work! The site and in particular the guides/encounter videos have been a great help to myself as a 'new to the tanking scene' player, keep it up. Oh, and I do like the new look!

    Greets all

    Wake

  15. #55
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    a little help please

    Hello folks, i am in need of some advice please
    I play WOW almost since release and i played almost all classes (no warlock) but my 1st love remains the tanking and the 2nd is mele dps. In WOW i tanked as warrior, in TBC as druid and in WOTLK was time for my paladin and i geared him pretty good i may say and im happy with it but the DPS class problem came out to me and i said i need to make me a alternate toon for DPS. ok then... what to do??... aaaa there are some new toons with which i havent played with... DK and DK it was... now im at 80 with a specc i consider to be the most agresive spec on single target but here i need the little help.
    Here you have my build and please if you have time and patience to tell me if this spec is any good please do and also tell me what can i do to improve it while you look at it...

    Thanck you alot folks

  16. #56
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    Busse, you're in the completely wrong place buddy. Please read the forum guidelines and pick more carefully.

    You want to be here: Damage per second Discussion
    (I'd particularly suggest Tony's thread)

    Or if you're just looking for spec/gear/rotation feedback: Armory & Talent Suggestions
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  17. #57
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    dps rotation for frost/blood spec.

    this is my current build and killing myself trying to find the right dps rotation to maximize damage. I am DW using titansteel bonecrusher and hatestrike.

    gear is The World of Warcraft Armory
    spec is Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    Like i said just looking for a rotation. Not a good bad judgement. not sure which ends up with best dps overall. Seems to spike a lot.

  18. #58
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    Spec's wrong for dual wielding DPS. You're looking either for the 32/39 build or the 44/27 build listed in my DPS section. I wouldn't get comfortable with dual wielding either because they're gutting it in 3.1

    You're right now doing yourself a lot of harm the build you're doing because blood's so reliant on big numbers and hard damage with a two hander. Dual wielding focuses on magic damage, thus the dip in Unholy instead.

    Go to the DPS section of this website and look up my guide. It'll explain a lot more.

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  19. #59
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    Indeed, so long current cookie cutters.

    Grimjack, you're looking for the DPS Discussion Section
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  20. #60
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    Ok I am new to this site and have been reading alot of your threads. I have tanked some of 10man Naxx o/t and main.Same with OS 10 and 25. My question is if your are a frost tank why do you put more in Unholy? My setup is 23/43/5 I have no problem in holding aggro or surving longer than most. Which the 23 in blood gets me Maxed RT at my present stated with the RT glyphe gives me a 5k hp boost when buffed up to 7k and that pops every 30secs. I also get down to Veteran of the Third War for the extra Sta, Str, and Expert which would be 6. I also did the Dark Conviction to increase my crits. I do admit when not tanking i do PVP alot in this spec. I love having DC and KM for the increase and free crits they give. My dps rate with this in raids is around 1.2k dmg and in some fights been up to 1.5k. Wondering also would this spec be good for alot higher end? Also like i said I am new to the site would really appreciate the feed back. Here is my Armory if you would like to see.
    The World of Warcraft Armory

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