Damage Is A Tanking Responsibility

[Ciderhelm]

Jump To Patch 3.0 Preparedness Guides: Paladin / Warrior

Forget Threat: Blizzard wants you to deal damage. They're not going to hide it, either -- there's not a single piece of plate tanking gear in Wrath that isn't itemized with loads of Strength.

First, don't worry, you're not weaker as a result of this change once Wrath comes around. They're consciously tuning the encounters around this new gear philosophy, and they're making sure each of the classes is in the same place as far as being able to handle the incoming damage.

Second, Threat is not a helpful mechanic to base our class discussions on anymore. Yes, it's possible to lose aggro under certain circumstances, and you'll need to stay alert to incoming mobs and specific aggro mechanics.


Recount -- Some Numbers
The following are details of a Karazhan run, a mix of both multi-target and single-target pulls. During this run, I averaged 995.2 DPS during combat. I will do better next week by itemizing more pure DPS gear.

Ability Breakdown

Shield Slam     23%
Shockwave       12%
Thunder Clap    12%
Revenge         12%
Heroic Strike   11%
Damage Shield    9%
Devastate        5%

I'm happy to see how Shockwave, Thunder Clap, and Damage shield lined up. Specific to AOE encounters, the Shockwave/Thunder Clap fell closer to 20% with Damage Shield staying at approximately 10%. Damage Shield gets an advantage in that it was getting use in single target tanking, where I chose not to use either Shockwave or Thunder Clap.

Shield Slam was low thanks to the amount of AOE packs we were pulling. However, Shield Slam was getting woven in nearly all the time even in multi-target situations.

These numbers are very likely to change once I do a tuning pass on my gear and hit Karazhan again.

Shield Slam

Minimum Hit     734
Average Hit    1318
Maximum Hit    2371

Minimum Crit    894
Average Crit   2715
Maximum Crit   4354
Crit Rate       33%

The disparity you see in max hits and crits are a result of the Shield Slam macro I've been promoting. This is not something I'd recommend unless you're in T4+ gear, since it effectively removes the ability of two trinket slots and your Shield Block ability in saving you in a tight spot.


Damage Is A Tanking Responsibility
Damage and mobility is what will set you apart as an outstanding tank. Do not settle with having enough Threat just to hold aggro -- if you do this, you'll assume the skill was taken out of your class, and you'll get bored quick.

It just so happens that your new metric makes the entirety of the game more enjoyable.

[Jaonne]

Very interesting - I'll be running Karazhan tonight to test the waters and compare to pre-patch, I'm looking forward to the results.

Thanks for the info!

[Marrick]

Nice. I'm hoping to run a Kara or ZA tonight. I'm interested to see what kind of DPS I'll put out (especially in ZA with all the AoE) with T5/Badge level gear.

[Makhno]

I've got a gearing question for you, Ciderhelm (and anyone else with input). For running content I outgear, like Kara or heroics, what is better:

A pure DPS piece with lots of Strength, and Hit/Crit/ArP, or...
An "old-style" threat piece with less Strength, and Hit/Exp/SBV?

Likewise, what about gear with little to no Strength, but lots of Hit/Expertise (Brooch of Deftness comes to mind)? Is that worth anything these days?

[mero12513]

I've got a gearing question for you, Ciderhelm (and anyone else with input). For running content I outgear, like Kara or heroics, what is better:

A pure DPS piece with lots of Strength, and Hit/Crit/ArP, or...
An "old-style" threat piece with less Strength, and Hit/Exp/SBV?

Likewise, what about gear with little to no Strength, but lots of Hit/Expertise (Brooch of Deftness comes to mind)? Is that worth anything these days?

I have a feeling (but no math) that suggest that pure DPS pieces are useful, assuming you're surviving just fine, which is probably the case. Make sure your healers are feeling comfortable, and then rock out those DPS pieces.

Personally, I'm running almost everything in a set made entirely of Block Value (sitting at 1041 without trinkets or SB). I've been putting out 1.1k dps almost everywhere, and I couldn't be happier.

[Warwench]

Fantastic article and pretty much what I experienced in Kara last night.

i was a run ahead-pull-the-next-room fool.. averaging 1500 TPS on just trash packs and over 2500 on some bosses. Our DPS were over joyed and the Kara geared Pally we had along to OT was out of a job.. poor guy.. he just could not keep up with my threat.

When he would pull, i'd yank things back off him with a single SS.

I need more seat time with rotations and i am converting to 75% keybinds ATM so I am pretty sloppy.

My gear needs a good going over too and my spec, it's a little weird. I dropped cruelty and am considering dropping some of the avoidance talents.. i figure 15% for each of Parry/Dodge should be ok and if i need to keep one, it will be Parry (more threat!).

I did notice a HUGE smoothing out in the damage i was taking in boss encounters.. my healers commented I seemed much easier to heal. I think it is a combination of no more crushing blows (Prince was so much cake) and me stacking more SBR and smoothing the incoming damage out via blocking more of it.

Addons i need - S&B Alert - Vigilance Timer (be nice it it was added to Smartbuff).

on Vigilance, OH MY GOD. I LOVE THIS !. . put it on our highest DD, a mage and she was happy, and I was estatic. Anytime i lost agro on a mob, i blamed her for slacking.. LOL

all in all i am so freaking happy with these changes.

[Warwench]

Personally, I'm running almost everything in a set made entirely of Block Value (sitting at 1041 without trinkets or SB). I've been putting out 1.1k dps almost everywhere, and I couldn't be happier.

I am going for SBV and sBR aswell. SBR for mitigating incoming damage and smoothing it out and SBV for threat and DPS.

going for more health and less avoidance.

[Papahet31]

I ran heroic steamvaults last night with 4 of my raid members and I am blown away by how much easier it is to hold multiple mobs.

And the best part is I landed in the no. 2 spot on the overall damage output for the night. We had along a shaman that was specced for healing and a shadow priest. So I suspect that when we have our full raid with us complete with mage etc. it won't be as easy to be at the top of the damage meter. But, there I was...and it felt good. I'm assuming all the AOE helped boost my overall dps.

My gear is basically Kara-level gear and I am using a mildly modified version of the raid build ciderhelm posted. I took 1 point out of shield specialization (4/5) and picked up warbringer because since the dawn of time I have wanted to be able to charge during combat and in any stance

[Radhja]

I had a similar experience last night in Kara. Never have I ever full-cleared EVERY trash mob in the instance. Hell, we even went back and did the animal bosses (first time ever) for fun.

We one-shot every boss without effort.

I'm scared that this might direct the nerfbat our way, but then again, with so many people happy about these changes, it might be "overlooked".

At the end of the full-clear, I came in #1 in DPS, averaging ~960 dps. The mage and boomkin were blown away. During massive trash packs (like pulling the ENTIRE pre-moroes hall), TPS hit 3k. We didn't bother with a single Shackle the entire instance, even Moroes' adds were all firmly tanked. Hell, I solo-tanked the entire Illhoof encounter "accidentally". (I still let the OT take Kil'rek to have SOMETHING to do. I know he felt completely useless last night.)

I'm taking my guild to ZA for the first time tonight. With the 30% health nerf and the buff to the classes, I actually expect a full-clear, and half of them have never been.

...omg. Warrior tanking Dragonhawk adds. MADNESS I TELL YOU! MADNESSS!!!

[Radhja]

Here's a SS from last night. Note the TPS and overall DPS in the lower left-hand corner.

Prot ain't no joke, son.

[etakerns]

I did Kara and Za last night and let me say IT WAS UBBER, and yes i aggree cider if u'r not pulling faster and doing more dmg than u'r not doing something right. It was a pug grp and every1 understood what needed to happen w/o ever marking once the entire time b/c it didn't matter, I was holding Aggro like a MF'er and nothing could take it. Although i would watch the Omen3 and if it looked like some1 was getting close to me i put vigilance on them and close the gapp, Especially the pally beside me, she never had a clue she was giving me aggro.

[whirlo]

My biggest problem so far is the utter lack of rhyme or reason in my tanking. It's a little bit along the lines of:

"ooo shield slam is up! oh hey revenge! oh the glyph! is thunderclap up? oh wait shockwave! shield slam is up again! did i do devastate yet? is thunderclap up? oh wait, revenge! oh snap i forgot to heroic strike, is that on my bar? conc blow weee!"

all this is going on in my head while i frantically press buttons waiting for the GCD to be done. the group just sees me with 40k threat more than the next DPS and the mobs dying in 2.2 seconds.

[Armstrong]

Damage Is A Tanking Responsibility
Damage and mobility is what will set you apart as an outstanding tank. Do not settle with having enough Threat just to hold aggro -- if you do this, you'll assume the skill was taken out of your class, and you'll get bored quick.

It just so happens that your new metric makes the entirety of the game more enjoyable.

This it pretty much how I had been looking at the overall direction 3.0 is taking tanks specs. Good call on "putting the message out" though.

Nice haircut btw. I'm sticking with the bald look myself.

[Ukk]

Wow, I was happy doing 500-600 dps in heroics. So can someone comment on gearing for 900+dps? I have struggled to keep defense up so have been focused on that rather than gear for dps. Or is it just a by-product of having multi-mob trash pulls rather than gear?

[rhubarb]

Last night my guild went into UBRS and tried to get the jenkins achievement, once i finally showed up we managed to get it.
It was the first time I tried out my new warrior abilities...
damage shield + shockwave + thunderclap + whelps = LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[mero12513]

I've been pulling over a thousand dps consistantly, even on single targets, in my Block Value set. That's a set with at least some block value on every single piece but my belt (which will soon be corrected), weapon, and neck. I've got 1041 block value without trinkets or shield block.

The deal is that I only have 470 defense in it. I'll have even less when I put on my BV belt tonight. However, for some reason, I still seem to take less damage than before, even pulling tons of mobs and having significantly reduced avoidance. I think it's got a lot to do with blocking for full almost every attack I block, which is a big deal. In fact, on trash, I could pretty much add 80-90% of my block rating as pure avoidance and not be far from the truth.

And yes, pulling multiple mobs helps a ton.

[Horacio]

Awesome.

I am suprised that Revenge didn't account for more of your damage, though. Maybe not as much as SS but more than 50% of that of SS.

In 2 manning Ramps/BF last night I was hitting 850ish DPS on Recount with only Fort from my partner (hey, I needed someone to DE loots :P) Looking forward to Kara on Sunday...hell, loking forward to TK on Saturday, lol.

[mero12513]

Also, here is a project for those of you who want to see the highest numbers ever. I would never allow a dps to come with me when I do this, because I--personally--me--have put out the highest dps I've ever seen. Bring a *very* good healer, and head to Onyxia. Down onyxia, and run down the cave of eggs. Gather as many as your healer will feel comfortable with (which should be an absolute monster ton), and go to down. Pop Recklessness, then instantly switch to d-stance and hit Shield Block and shield wall asap. Let Damage shield rip them to shreds, then hit shockwave and thunderclap before the Reckless debuff falls off.

Congralulations. You've just killed what feels like hundreds of broodlings of the Black Dragflight putting out THOUSANDS of DPS. Your epeen will explode.

[Sparan]

I've been averaging b/w 1400-1500 dps on bosses without a specialized damage set and often beyond 2k on trash (we did sunwell and BT in 1 night last night and pretty much chain pulled 2-3 trash waves at a time and spammed seeds, so tclap and shockwave were pretty good damage dealers).

Just Spec 2/8/51, prioritize 10 strength gems in all red slots, 10 hit in yellows, and keep your stam gems in blues. Oh and consider getting surefooted and investing in some insane strength pots. I must admit it's a lot of fun tanking right now, esp. thanks to warbringer (sharp charge... look at the talent icon, you'll lol) and SnB.

[Daavos]

Kara geared Pally we had along to OT was out of a job.. poor guy.. he just could not keep up with my threat.

admit it. you put vigilance on him