WOTLK Feral Druid Guide

[Kylina3]

Sooo where's the gear guide for WOTLK? I'm just confused because it said there would be one at the beginning and I never saw one....

[Xnot]

It removes the cooldown from mangle-bear so you can spam mangle for 15 seconds non stop - 1 for a lacerate refresh.

I noticed none of your suggested talent builds include Berserk.

I am also confused about the use of FFF within the rotation. I believe you said hit it every single time it's available but you didn't include it within your '1st three rotations' list after the initial application.

[Darksend]

Sooo where's the gear guide for WOTLK? I'm just confused because it said there would be one at the beginning and I never saw one....

The guide was getting to long sooo....... http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/4...ear-guide.html

as for an updated one, I myself use a list that my friend and fellow blogger made so any list I were to post would just be a 100% copy of his list.

I noticed none of your suggested talent builds include Berserk.

I am also confused about the use of FFF within the rotation. I believe you said hit it every single time it's available but you didn't include it within your '1st three rotations' list after the initial application.

VII. Talent Builds

1. Tanking Builds
@ wowhead: Why must you hate me so. In the meantime: I'm not feral, I'm a Bear: Community Spotlight: Tentative Feral Raiding Specs for 3.1 and 3.1 Bear Specs

Had you actually read those you would have realized that all the builds that I just deleted were made BEFORE PRIMAL GORE was a talent. thus wowhead shifted all the builds by 1 point.

As for FF, my thinking is the sooner you get a 5 stack of lacerate the sooner you can use berserk.

[Losthero]

I know this thread is for feral tanking but I was wondering if you knew much about feral kitty and stat caps and all that goodness. I been playing for a long time as feral kitty and im having a heck of a time figuring out optimal numbers for my spec. I can throw out 5.7k dps almost 6k, but I mean my expertise is low and my hit rating is somewhat high and I cant seem to even it all out so im hit capped and have some good expertise. I also have the concern with my weapon and trying to figure out it a little bit of crit and AP is better then a deascent amount of haste and ArP? if you could in any way help me id very much appreciate it. If you wanna look at my armory to see what my deal is here is the link The World of Warcraft Armory

[Darksend]

I know this thread is for feral tanking but I was wondering if you knew much about feral kitty and stat caps and all that goodness. I been playing for a long time as feral kitty and im having a heck of a time figuring out optimal numbers for my spec. I can throw out 5.7k dps almost 6k, but I mean my expertise is low and my hit rating is somewhat high and I cant seem to even it all out so im hit capped and have some good expertise. I also have the concern with my weapon and trying to figure out it a little bit of crit and AP is better then a deascent amount of haste and ArP? if you could in any way help me id very much appreciate it. If you wanna look at my armory to see what my deal is here is the link The World of Warcraft Armory

This post does not belong here

HALP! I need advice This is where you go to ask for help. If you are posting a link to your armoury to ask for help or suggestions, your post belongs here. If you are asking "Am I ready to tank X?", your post belongs here. If you're asking about your talent spec, or a talent spec you came up with, your post belongs here.

As for the caps: hit is 8% and expertise is 26 skill, and ArP is now 1400 to hard cap.

[Xnot]

The guide was getting to long sooo....... http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/4...ear-guide.html

as for an updated one, I myself use a list that my friend and fellow blogger made so any list I were to post would just be a 100% copy of his list.






Had you actually read those you would have realized that all the builds that I just deleted were made BEFORE PRIMAL GORE was a talent. thus wowhead shifted all the builds by 1 point.

As for FF, my thinking is the sooner you get a 5 stack of lacerate the sooner you can use berserk.

Thank you for answering. Sorry I dind't make the connection there to the new talent specs. Plz keep up the hard work, I appreciate it.

[roovis]

Thanks for the video on the feral threat rotation guide. It is much appreciated, and I understood parts of it. However, I am hearing impaired (really!) and the part where you actually listed the rotation and rules was very difficult to understand. Could you post a written version of this portion of the guide? It would be most appreciated. Note: To the rest of the people who make TankSpot videos, having a written version to accompany the guides is most appreciated to those who are hard of hearing or deaf. Please continue doing this. We'll love you for it! Thanks...

[geros]

Transcribed:

Imp Mangle (3 rotation)

• First 4:
  • Demo Roar
  • Mangle
  • FF

• lacerate
• Mangle
• Lacerate

• Lacerate
• Mangle
• Lacerate

• Lacerate
• Mangle
• Beserk

• Remaining:
  • Mangle
  • Swipe
    • If demo roar is down, use demo roar
    • if FF is down, use FF
  • Swipe
    • If Lacerate is < 5 seconds, use lacerate

No Imp Mangle (4 rotation)

• First 3:
  • mangle
  • FF
  • lacerate
  • lacerate

• Mangle
• lacerate
• lacerate
• lacerate

• Mangle
• Beserk

• Remaining:
  • Mangle
  • FF
  • Demo Roar
    • If demo roar is up, swipe
  • Swipe
    • If lacerate < 5 seconds, lacerate

I think dark got a little screwy on the imp mangle first 4, it should probably be:

• demo
• mangle
• FF

• mangle
• lac
• lac

• mangle
• lac
• lac

• mangle
• lac
• beserk

[BearBark]

I've just recently made a tanking spec and I'm not sure if its just me or
something but i cannot seem to get my stamina very high. Unbuffed i seem to
get 29000 and people are saying my stamina should be amazing, this is
starting to get annoying mind giving me some advice?

Here's a link to my stuff: The World of Warcraft Armory

Any advice would be appreciated

[Kzanol]

I've just recently made a tanking spec and I'm not sure if its just me or
something but i cannot seem to get my stamina very high. Unbuffed i seem to
get 29000 and people are saying my stamina should be amazing, this is
starting to get annoying mind giving me some advice?

Here's a link to my stuff: The World of Warcraft Armory

Any advice would be appreciated

Hiho, Fellow Bear!

Your talent distribution looks like a leveling/questing one to me:
No boss will be impressed by brutal impact, nor should rage be a problem after 1rst 2-3 hits, which makes shreddings attacks and brutal impact obsolet. Put 2 points into primal precision to gain 10 expertise (not expertise rating!). Imp. Mark of the wild has recently turned from 'waste of points for ferals, we definitely do have some tree(s) in raid' to 'MUST HAVE!!' (1% to all stats per point). I shifted 2 points from furor to the left into IMotW. Feel free to look at my spec as basis, it's most probably my 5-10 (wo)mens spec, raid spec will shift infected wounds and King of the jungle points into resto tree's Master Shapeshifter. BTW Feral instinct pushes our one and only aoe tanking skill, take it!

You are kind of hitcapped against lvl 93 mobs.^^ 13,88 raw %, 1% darenei bonus (alliance only), 3% provided by shadow or owlkin, 8% from your glyph of growl - my calculator went off by these numbers.

Plz don't gem for hit or expertise, unless there's some URGENT need! 10Agi/15Sta, 30 Sta or 20 Agi are gems of choice for ferals, and don't run for any available socket bonus just because there is one. Boni you may want to keep/get are kind of 8Sta or 6 Agi PER SOCKET. Don't gem for dodge (shoes, shoulders), 10Agi/15Sta serves you better, when short of stamina, bonus of 4 ArP (shoulders) is not a big deal, so go for 30 stamina if you like.

Cloak enchant should be 22 Agi not XYZ Def rating. Agi rules, agi means dodge, crit and armor, let alone agi scales with blessing of kings, same goes for gloves, get rid of hit enchant, plz. Breast is good enough to go for +10 to all stats, definitely!

Think about getting pvp shoulder enchant for 10k honor (30 sta, xyz resilance rating) instead of sons of hodirs' one (15 doge/10 def).

Have a look to cloak for 25 badges (old ones), slightly better than yours, but it's small steps that make a mile.

Try to get a decent tanking weapon, yours a kitty one. Origin of nightmares comes to mind (Naxx, 2nd boss in construct quarter plus a small chance with 3rd one) or go arena and get some gladiator's one. Onyxia 10/25 drops shadowstrike, a nice kitty weapon which by use builds you a very decent tanking weapon! And again ... regem! 20 (useless) hit (+4 agi as bonus) is a waste compared to red, blue or purple gem you could put into.

Well, now we come to money can buy items:
Handmade shoes and waist (ulduar recipes) and (a lot) more expensive wrists and breast (trial of crusader recipes) will burn some pixel gold, but as I see you're herbalist, usually not known as poor chars.^^

Just an estimate, but following hints from above should gain you some 150 Sta/50Agi (points are subject to shift between these two) pre IMotW, making up for some 2.5k life, another extra 250 by BoK in raid.

Disclaimer: English's not my native language, no rudeness or name calling is intended.

[geros]

I personally don't like master shapeshifter in a bear only build, mostly what you need to do is shift two points in brutal impact into primal precision and two points into imp MOTW. You either want to go 3/3 in infected wounds or 0/3 (either you are covering the thunderclap debuff or you aren't). I wouldn't suggest the above talent spec for that reason. Darksend has a good set of bear and bearcat talent specs in the first post.

You should drop the growl glyph for a maul glyph. It'll help you in multi pack scenarios.

You probably need to gem almost exclusively for stam. When looking at socketing for a bear set I ask two questions, is it an agility or stam bonus? Are there no yellow gems for the bonus? If both answers are yes, I'll try and make it. Otherwise you're better off just going for stam. Agi enchants on cloak/gloves would be good.

Thunderstrike = bearstrike in Ony 10/25, anguish/fordragon blades is another alternative if you've got ToC 10 on farm. The champion seal reward staff actually rates pretty high as well. It's just hard to find a naxx group anymore.

[Igrado]

When you say to end your opening rotation with Berserk, do you mean Enrage?

[geros]

nope, Berserk - Spell - World of Warcraft . Gives you the threat lead.

[Igrado]

oh, DUH.

Thanks,

[Imwy]

This guide and the blog are a great resource. Thanks for your time.

[Darksend]

Look for a new video in a few days as soon as cider gets around to looking at it.

This video will basically just be an audio version of the writen guide for those who prefer to listen instead of read. It will cover talents, glyphs, and a little bit about gearing, geming, and enchanting.

[Darksend]

In the process of doing a massive update to some minor things, such as infected wounds not stacking and the new innervate mechanics, nothing that effects the content of the guide just some housekeeping that I have fallen behind on. If you notice anything still not updated to 3.2.2 (not 3.3 which I plan on updating once the PTR is finished not before) leave a reply and I will correct it. Sometimes you just miss things on talents you never use.

Edit: correction just finished the 3.2.2 updates as well as any housekeeping mistakes from 3.2 and 3.1. Should be completely up-to-date as far as descriptions but if I missed any please let me know

[Darksend]

Added a new Gear sub-section at the bottom in regards to 3.3.

4. 3.3 Best-in-Slot List

I have finished a very basic best-in-slot list for ICC. Blizzard is using a different philosophy than in ToC in regards to sockets and as such if you do not plan on doing hard modes just fill in the 264 items of the same name and the list still holds true. The write-up can be found here.

[skj91]

Hiho, Fellow Bear!

Your talent distribution looks like a leveling/questing one to me:
No boss will be impressed by brutal impact, nor should rage be a problem after 1rst 2-3 hits, which makes shreddings attacks and brutal impact obsolet. Put 2 points into primal precision to gain 10 expertise (not expertise rating!). Imp. Mark of the wild has recently turned from 'waste of points for ferals, we definitely do have some tree(s) in raid' to 'MUST HAVE!!' (1% to all stats per point). I shifted 2 points from furor to the left into IMotW. Feel free to look at my spec as basis, it's most probably my 5-10 (wo)mens spec, raid spec will shift infected wounds and King of the jungle points into resto tree's Master Shapeshifter. BTW Feral instinct pushes our one and only aoe tanking skill, take it!

You are kind of hitcapped against lvl 93 mobs.^^ 13,88 raw %, 1% darenei bonus (alliance only), 3% provided by shadow or owlkin, 8% from your glyph of growl - my calculator went off by these numbers.

Plz don't gem for hit or expertise, unless there's some URGENT need! 10Agi/15Sta, 30 Sta or 20 Agi are gems of choice for ferals, and don't run for any available socket bonus just because there is one. Boni you may want to keep/get are kind of 8Sta or 6 Agi PER SOCKET. Don't gem for dodge (shoes, shoulders), 10Agi/15Sta serves you better, when short of stamina, bonus of 4 ArP (shoulders) is not a big deal, so go for 30 stamina if you like.

Cloak enchant should be 22 Agi not XYZ Def rating. Agi rules, agi means dodge, crit and armor, let alone agi scales with blessing of kings, same goes for gloves, get rid of hit enchant, plz. Breast is good enough to go for +10 to all stats, definitely!

Think about getting pvp shoulder enchant for 10k honor (30 sta, xyz resilance rating) instead of sons of hodirs' one (15 doge/10 def).

Have a look to cloak for 25 badges (old ones), slightly better than yours, but it's small steps that make a mile.

Try to get a decent tanking weapon, yours a kitty one. Origin of nightmares comes to mind (Naxx, 2nd boss in construct quarter plus a small chance with 3rd one) or go arena and get some gladiator's one. Onyxia 10/25 drops shadowstrike, a nice kitty weapon which by use builds you a very decent tanking weapon! And again ... regem! 20 (useless) hit (+4 agi as bonus) is a waste compared to red, blue or purple gem you could put into.

Well, now we come to money can buy items:
Handmade shoes and waist (ulduar recipes) and (a lot) more expensive wrists and breast (trial of crusader recipes) will burn some pixel gold, but as I see you're herbalist, usually not known as poor chars.^^

Just an estimate, but following hints from above should gain you some 150 Sta/50Agi (points are subject to shift between these two) pre IMotW, making up for some 2.5k life, another extra 250 by BoK in raid.

Disclaimer: English's not my native language, no rudeness or name calling is intended.

[skj91]

Hiho, Fellow Bear!

Disclaimer: English's not my native language, no rudeness or name calling is intended.

Are you serious? I never would've guessed, your English is excellent. Very fluent and natural sounding. Maybe a couple mispellings here or there which anyone could just take as typo-s, but really you sound perfectly fine to this native English speaker



OK now for my question to Dark regarding the feral build stuffs. First of all I'm really a bear more than a cat, but... since WotLK (and all the bear nerfs that cam with it) my little 3-5 man BC heroic running guild (by 3-5 man i mean during BC, we used to run a few 5 man heroics w/ only 3 people, alot of them w/ only 4, but whatever the case, I tanked jthe whole way through since before BC, in the days of silithus bug farming for rep i'd been The tank. Well with Wrath came alts for me and my buds and for the first time ever, kitty-form became an option for me. Additionally, my little 3-5 man group hooked up w/ a friend's guild so some actual raiding came into our lives and is now a weekly schedule. BUT, The guild we hooked up with, of course, already had their set MT and OT and even a couple of back-up people who could filled in tanking when MT/OT couldn't be there. All in all, I'm pretty much gonna be kitty-form, end of discussion. Because of this along w/ my buddies rolling tank alts as well as my own (at the time of Wrath's release) much needed break from tanking altogether, I, like most ferals here, split my build into 2 feral builds: kitty spec, and bear spec.
Well now that blizzard has sort-of compensated for alot of the bear nerfs WotLK started with and especially since finally fixing rage generation for bears, I'm really wanting to go back to a more balanced cat/bear spec in one, like it was back before dual-speccing swas even a thought in the days of BC. My main objective is to maintain the uber-kitty DPS I have now in raids but (this is the ipoertant part) be able to shift from kitty to bear when schiess hits the fan and pick up the role of OT so OT can pick MT when MT goes down, or heck.. maybe even tank-it all when they both go down, and not get embarrassingly 1-shot wiped because i'm in my kitty spec.
Taking up tanking when original tank(s) go down is instinctive to me, I can't not do it. (shifting to bear is so much faster than brezzing the tank, and well going "OH ****"an promptly going bear is like a reflex, you know... I really need to be able to live through it or I just look stupid.

All of that said, I'm at aq loss for how to spec bear and cat both into one build. If seems that if it's a negligable or uselexss talent for one form it's a must have for the other. I looked at the hybrid build you have linked on the first page but... meh, my ferocious bite damge these days is massive, refuse to give up 5/5 Feral Aggression as my kitty DPS drops substantially (it's already dropped some from the 4% to crit lost by giving up master shapeshifter) and energy being my biggest limiter in kitty DPS output already, I hate to give up 5/5 Ferocity too. I respecced to a kitty & bear in one couple days ago and tried it out tanking a H UP pug and tried out kitty in Ulduar with my regular group. What I found was that bear did just fine in that build, no worries at all, no 'close-calls' no aggro problems, yadda, yadda, yadda (this was w/a pug, mind you) but kitty suffered ALOT (the previous 2 weeks was in top 2 of the raid in DPS in Ulduar, same group of people, same bosses, etc., but in this duo-spec build dropped to 7th in a 10-man raid) and average DPS on meter down by about 1k.

Sooooo, here's the question (finally) which of the tanking talents should I start knocking out first? What are the least vital/have least impact on tanking-capability yet at the same time do not severely impact kitty output?


P.S.(I have a big preferance for a Rake/Rip + Mangle/FB rotation over any kind of cycle using Shred, I absolutely hate shred, won't use it unless the fight goes on forever and is boring and I start getting lazy but other than that, i have to be active in a fight, adrenaline rushing, heart beating fast sorry i just can't bring myself to spam one, and only one key, once every 5 seconds, too high-strung for that.)

Here are my previous bear/cat split builds and the newly attempted bear+cat spec which is failing at cat:


Original Bear Spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGGscrzceRc0uAzby0d

Original Cat build (still have this for second build until i find a dual-role build that works):
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=000000000000000000000000000055 22020303220100531200303135112035030120000000000000 00000

Newly attampted Cat+Bear-in-one-build:
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=000000000000000000000000000044 32320303210102531203302135112035000100000000000000 00000


any input, on what bear can go without here in order to keep as much of the original cat-spec abilities as possible will be much appreciated.