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Thread: 3.0 Preparedness -- Your Tuesday Guide

  1. #1
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    3.0 Preparedness -- Your Tuesday Guide

    Making this quick and dirty, for Protection Warriors. Parts of this are updated from the older 3.0 Overview. Lore has added Paladin information in this post.

    P.S. I moved the More Dual Spec Details and Post-Blizzcon Updates from Ghostcrawler news to General Discussion for the duration of patch day.

    P.P.S. If you haven't logged in over the weekend you have a metric ton of news and discussion to read over thanks to Blizzcon.

    Rotation
    The standard "2344" is no longer useful in describing Warrior Threat. Because of Sword & Board procs, you'll need to be aware of the priority and make sure you're using the best attack available:

    1. S&B Shield Slam
    2. Revenge
    3. Shield Slam
    4. Devastate / Whatever

    There's a few different ways to look at our priority system as it relates to Shield Slam and Revenge, rage, crit, glyphs, and damage, so stay tuned if that changes. Also, I can't pretend the above is scientifically tested on my end, so if you'd like to challenge that priority, please feel free to do so.


    Warrior Tanking Specs
    Let me preface this by saying the builds I'm going to recommend aren't necessarily the best build for you. As before, Protection lends itself to builds that are unique to your situation, which is what sets it apart from many other builds in WoW. However, it's also fair to say that Protection is designed around level 80 players, and it's virtually impossible to get a streamlined 70 raiding build without big sacrifices. Bear with me, as these builds can be changed a lot depending on your situation. Feel free to ask talent-specific questions in this thread.

    Raid Main Tanking
    Three points in Improved Shield Specialization may be important to you depending on your gear level and the content you're taking. If this is the case, there's a whole lot of options for the cutting block: Shockwave, Vigilance, Concussion Blow, Gag Order, Puncture, and potentially even Improved Thunder Clap. These decisions will have to be made based on your own circumstances (i.e. don't drop Thunder Clap if you're applying the 20% slowing debuff for yourself; don't drop Vigilance, Thunder Clap, or Shockwave if you're AOE tanking Hyjal, etc).

    5-Man/Heroic/Karazhan Tanking
    Drop some Avoidance immediately! It's borderline sinful to say such a thing, but it's just not necessary at this point in the game unless you're brand new to 70. For this build, I also dropped Puncture, since the side effect of being able to pull more mobs at a time is having more damage to work with -- I've moved these points over to Cruelty. You can move those two points out of Deflection to wherever you'd like if you're willing to take a bit more damage.

    A Note on Cruelty vs. Impale/Deep Wounds
    Impale, with or without Deep Wounds, is going to be stronger as you get to 80, but it's just about impossible to get in a good 70 or 70-to-80 leveling build. Beware of this for the future, though.

    A Note on Improved Revenge
    Improved Revenge is included in my builds for the damage bonus (which is significantly more valuable since the recent Revenge buff), but it bears repeating that the stun is very good on this ability for solo grinding and leveling. Yes, you do lose a bit of rage, but your whole rotation is much cheaper and more sustainable than it has been in the past thanks to S&B.

    Regarding Damage Talents
    Threat is not turning out to be a difficult task the way it was in The Burning Crusade. So long as this remains the case, you actually have a bit of flexibility in moving points to the utility talents you want rather than sticking to a max-TPS cookie cutter. Bear in mind, though, that dealing maximum damage is now a serious contribution to your raid, and specing accordingly may be appropriate.


    Glyphs
    There's a good variety of glyphs to choose from for Warriors. Here's the full list (courtesy of Naka):

    All Major Glyphs
    Glyph of Blocking
    Glyph of Revenge
    Glyph of Heroic Strike
    Glyph of Last Stand
    Glyph of Devastate
    Glyph of Rapid Charge
    Glyph of Sunder Armor
    Glyph of Cleaving
    Glyph of Resonating Power


    All Minor Glyphs
    Glyph of Bloodrage
    Glyph of Thunder Clap
    Glyph of Charge
    Glyph of Battle


    For level 70, you'll only have access to 2 major glyphs and 3 minor glyphs. At 80 you'll get the third major glyph. There are quite a few good options here, but I'm going to recommend what I believe will bring the most utility for leveling and pre-Wrath grinding:

    Major

    Glyph of Revenge
    Glyph of Rapid Charge

    Minor
    Glyph of Battle
    Glyph of Charge
    Glyph of Bloodrage


    If you're strictly focused on tanking then Heroic Strike, and Last Stand are both very attractive. Blocking isn't available until Wrath of the Lich King or I'd have it. Finally, the reason I chose Charge is because -- yes -- I'm waiting on the Charge cooldown to refresh when grinding equal-level mobs now, and that is an awesome feeling.


    Itemization
    Your Defense is getting hit, and it's potentially getting hit hard. If you're still raiding but you're not at late T5 gear level, resocket to +Defense gems to reach 490.

    What I want to use this section for, though, is letting you in on some tips for grinding (and leveling). Here's what you need if you don't already have it:

    Felsteel Shield Spike
    Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker 600
    Figurine of the Colossus
    Petrified Lichen Guard

    I've been preaching the first three for fun Warrior tricks for over a year now, but the fourth is new to my "must have" list. Sporeggar shield is absolutely awesome for AOE grinding.

    Hopefully you grabbed Coren's Lucky Coin during Brewfest. This is not, however, an excuse not to pick up the Auto-Blocker -- they do stack. The first macro in the next section makes use of both trinkets.

    Finally, while leveling, I have made use of health recovery trinkets. Don't do this unless you're already familiar with quickly swapping trinkets. The best is Spyglass of the Hidden Fleet, but before Enraged Regeneration, I made some use of Ashtongue Talisman of Valor. Yes, it is actually useful in a small pocket of the game.


    AOE Grinding

    Head to Black Temple and see if you can find a time slot between yourself, the other Warriors, and the Paladins who will be swarming the terrace...

    [ame="http://www.veoh.com/videos/v15883774Jc7KMgcn"]TankSpot Prot AOE | Veoh Video Network[/ame]

    Per an earlier post: Do not underestimate the value of a scaling damage reduction from gear (Armor and Block), scaling multi-target damage (Shockwave, Damage Shield, Thunder Clap), and scaling healing (Enraged Regeneration). Each of these may seem small, but what you'll be able to pull off will be nothing short of spectacular. You've got a lot to look forward to at 80 and you can get started on it now.


    Grinding -- Shield Block Bonuses, Shockwave
    Shockwave should never be used while Shield Block is active. This is because the value of the Shield Block buff is seriously diminished while mobs are stunned -- Damage Shield, which has it's damage increased due to the 100% Block Value buff, will not proc, and the stun occurring during a period where you have 100% Block Chance is less effective than when your combat table is not covered.

    The solution is to stagger the two. Use Shield Block, which should be on a 40 second cooldown thanks to talents, then use Shockwave immediately after the buff has worn off. Since Shockwave is on a 20 second cooldown, it will stay staggered appropriately.

    Block Value trinkets are valuable for leveling. If you don't have both Coren's Lucky Coin and Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker, get a health regeneration or DPS usable trinket in the mix.

    You'll want to get a macro running which will allow the use of these two trinkets when Shield Block goes up. You'll also want to tie Shield Slam into this and make sure it goes off near instantly once the Shield Block and trinket bonuses are up. Here's the macro:

    Code:
    #showtooltip Shield Slam
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
    /cast Shield Block
    /use 13
    /use 14
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Show()
    /cast Shield Slam
    /startattack
    While Shield Block is active, do not use abilities that don't proc Shield Slam via Sword and Board. This means Shield Slam, then Revenge/Devastate until Shield Slam is back up again.


    Instance Run Example (Courtesy Xav)
    I'm stretching it a bit by including a Wrath-specific instance movie in here, but this is a level 70 instance and it will give you an example of how sweeping these changes are:

    [ame="http://files.filefront.com/PremoUtgardeSpeedavi/;11968603;/fileinfo.html"]PremoUtgardeSpeed.avi - FileFront.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://static4.filefront.com/ffv6/player/vp_embed.swf?v=798956@@AMEPARAM@@static4.filefront .com/ffv6/player/vp_embed.swf?v=798956[/ame]

    Of note in this video is a response from Xav that can be found here recommending this macro:
    Code:
    /cast Charge
    /cast Taunt


    Ability Changes
    This is near the bottom of the list because I expect most of you have already been following the site. However, it's good to see this brought up in a single list again:
    • Berserker Rage in all stances -- use it while grinding -- don't forget you get extra rage from damage.
    • Shield Bash is off the global cooldown and does not deal damage.
    • Shield Block is on a 40 second cooldown with talents, lasts 10 full seconds with no charges, and increases Shield Block Value by 100%.
    • Intervene has a 10% targeted Threat Reduction included (i.e. a bit of raid utility and a bit of help in 5-mans).
    • Imp Revenge deals a ton of damage.
    • Thunder Clap hits an unlimited number of targets.
    • Recklessness, Retaliation, and Shield Wall are all now 5 minute unlinked cooldowns.

    Encounter Mechanics Changes
    Another quick list:
    • Crushing Blows are gone from raid bosses.
    • Illidan's Shear is gone.
    • Sunwell Radiance has been removed.

    User Interface & Mods Questions
    Make use of our User Interface, Addons, and Macros section for any questions you have going into 3.0. It will save you a lot of hassle and you might find something unexpected and good.


    Must-Read Discussions
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f189/...-paladins.html
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/4...-thoughts.html
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/4...g-tuesday.html
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...-overview.html
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...at-values.html
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...gear-list.html
    Last edited by Lore; 10-14-2008 at 08:54 AM.

  2. #2
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    Ciderhelm...in case you didn't know it already...you da man!
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  3. #3
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    Dang your fast at that reply button Squeegiemama

  4. #4
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    Such nice work

    Quick question, how are tanking weapons looking as far as threat, rage and abilities go? Are we still looking at fast weapons or are slow ones back in fashion?
    Raid Leader, GM and Meat Shield. Shadow, Firetree Horde
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    Such nice work

    Quick question, how are tanking weapons looking as far as threat, rage and abilities go? Are we still looking at fast weapons or are slow ones back in fashion?
    Speed doesn't matter, unless you're in the fortunate position of having raid buffs that provide rage... in which case, faster is still better.

  6. #6
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    Might want to mention that Sunwell Radiance is disappearing. Blizzard confirmed it a month ago, but I'm rarely seeing it talked about, especially in reference to what the loss of avoidance to re-itemization is going to do to 25-man tanking.

    Probably should have a few words on the threat changes, too. Particularly the one with threat from passive healing like earth shields now accruing to the healer - that's going to create a few unpleasant surprises when there's not a hunter around to misdirect on a pull.

    Re: Improved Revenge, people should note that revenge's damage has been buffed - taking the talent makes more sense in that context, that 20% is added to a number that's much higher than it used to be.

  7. #7
    1% parry is better in all respects than 1% dodge, right?
    So a point in deflection trumps a point in anticipation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andomar View Post
    1% parry is better in all respects than 1% dodge, right?
    So a point in deflection trumps a point in anticipation.
    Logic hurts my brain at this hour in the morning.

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    So it doesn't matter if it's slow or fast? I've noticed a range of tanking weapons from 1.5ish to 3ish, so you're saying aim for stats? Just out of curiosity why are we not worried about speed anymore? (sorry to ask for reasoning )
    Raid Leader, GM and Meat Shield. Shadow, Firetree Horde
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    http://shadowscourge.guildportal.com

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    So it doesn't matter if it's slow or fast? I've noticed a range of tanking weapons from 1.5ish to 3ish, so you're saying aim for stats? Just out of curiosity why are we not worried about speed anymore? (sorry to ask for reasoning )
    I guess it'd be more accurate to say I'm not as worried about Threat or damage or rage anymore. The math hasn't changed and a faster weapon is better, but I wouldn't dismiss a slower weapon with great mitigation stats, since that's what we're going to need most.

  11. #11
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    Ah gotcha, thanks for the clarification Just thought maybe we had so many rage burning abilities now that HS was less weighty in a rotation but come to think of it with glyphs etc it's gonna be pretty handy. thanks mate
    Raid Leader, GM and Meat Shield. Shadow, Firetree Horde
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    In regards to Petrified Lichen Guard, I've been wondering if just using a shield such as Shield of Impenetrable Darkness (122 base block value + 33s sbv stat) would put out more aoe or at least comparable damage to it. I think their strength is close to the same, but the SoID has 93 more sbv, which is ~120 more after Shield Mastery. Shouldnt this increase Damage Shield by (120*0.2) = 24 dmg before armor reduction and will take place every block or hit you take, rather then stacking a dot when blocking. I haven't used the PLG for a while so i dont know what it stacks up to, but i think using a high SBV shield won't be a bad substitute for people without a PLG.
    Galushi - 85 Dwarf Warrior - Shadowsong US Alliance.
    Branigan - 85 Goblin Warrior - Kilrogg US Horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galushi View Post
    In regards to Petrified Lichen Guard, I've been wondering if just using a shield such as Shield of Impenetrable Darkness (122 base block value + 33s sbv stat) would put out more aoe or at least comparable damage to it. I think their strength is close to the same, but the SoID has 93 more sbv, which is ~120 more after Shield Mastery. Shouldnt this increase Damage Shield by (120*0.2) = 24 dmg before armor reduction and will take place every block or hit you take, rather then stacking a dot when blocking. I haven't used the PLG for a while so i dont know what it stacks up to, but i think using a high SBV shield won't be a bad substitute for people without a PLG.
    Wow. I hadn't even thought of this. More maths!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    Wow. I hadn't even thought of this. More maths!
    Oh, and that 24 extra raw damage can potentially crit. PLG's dmg doesnt crit.
    Galushi - 85 Dwarf Warrior - Shadowsong US Alliance.
    Branigan - 85 Goblin Warrior - Kilrogg US Horde.

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    Nor does PLG scale with Shield Block (+100% sbv)....sorry for many posts...i keep thinking things right after i hit the button. I'm done for now i swear.
    Galushi - 85 Dwarf Warrior - Shadowsong US Alliance.
    Branigan - 85 Goblin Warrior - Kilrogg US Horde.

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    Here's a quick question regarding glyphs...

    For those of us who haven't touched the beta or PTR, what will be doing to secure glyphs on Tuesday considering the fact that people need to level inscription? Am I thinking about this the correct way? I'm sure there are folks that have all the mats ready to roll for the immediate leveling of inscription, but is there anyway to acquire glyphs for your toon outside of an inscriber? Or will I be hitting the trade channel like everyone else?

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    You have to buy them from people that level the tradeskill. The glyph vendor was added to the beta just to make testing glyphs easier since no one had any incentive to actually level it (since the gold is useless over there).

    But you should note that you can tank every 5 man instance quite easily without any glyphs, as I did before the vendor was added. So there is no need to worry about securing them the day of the patch, especially considering how insane the prices will be.
    "We actually talked today about adding an item level 300 shirt that did absolutely nothing but mess with mods that attempt to boil down players to gear scores. " -Ghostcrawler

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    Iīm a bit confused about the shield spike at the moment. Iīm also using my PLG with a felsteel shield spike for the occasional AOE tanking. As galushi already mentioned, with the upcoming damage shield a high block value shield might be better then the PLG. But the enchant Enchant Shield - Tough Shield - Spell - World of Warcraft might be a not too bad alternative to a felsteel shield spike.

    Letīs assume we have a about 25% chance to block. Now letīs also assume we have about 35-45% avoidance(because we might partly spec out of anticipation and deflection at 70), including dodge/parry, base miss and miss through our defense skill. To make this simple letīs call it a rest chance to suffer a normal hit or block an attack of 60%, or in other words, to proc damage shield.

    With the shield spike this would translate to 1 proc every 4 enemy swings, for about 32 damage before armor. Averaged out 8 damage per swing. And if we use our Shield block Skill, we would block 60% of all incoming swings for 10 seconds, which would raise it to 19 damage per swing before armor.

    Now with the shield block value enchant we gain about 23 Block rating, including Shield mastery. This translates to about 4-5 damage per damage shield proc, that occurs 3 out of 5 enemy swings. It would translate to about 3 added damage before armor per swing. This enchant would also potentially scale with Metagems and Glyphs that increase your shield block value, but I guess you will use a better enchant for your shield, when these get available.

    Now, while this for itself is clearly inferior, the shield block value enchant will scale with our Shield Block Skill (+100% block value). It will also cause us to block a higher amount of damage (naturally), boost shield slam and is able to crit, which I donīt know for the shield spike. At last, the enchant is cheaper than the shield spike, which makes it a bit better for leveling content.

    The bottom line, if my math is correct:

    Shield spikes benefit a lot from block rating, so if you have a high block rating this might be the better one.

    The block value enchant benefits from reduced avoidance, due to the damage shield mechanic.

    Another thing that slipped my mind: A shield spike doesnīt proc while you are stunned and attacked, damage shield does.

    I canīt really decide which one would be better, but in the end it will end I guess I will go for the cheaper echant while leveling.

  19. #19
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    Outstanding work, Cider, once again. Thanks.

    To Galushi's point: That's actually a relief because PLG is a mid 60's itemized shield and eats into your EH significantly. Granted, in some situations it really doesn't matter but I expect most of us are going to be playing with higher level mobs and trying to see what we can handle. In those AoE grind situations, like on top of BT, you can just sit back and eat a sammich while the mobs kill themselves on your shield but it makes it go faster burning them down at the same time with SS's and such. And you're literally swimming in rage...a 'better' shield will help there as well.

    As for the specs....yeah, most talent calculators are set up to go to 80 and its hard to stop adding points, lol. Personally, not raiding cutting edge, I'll pick up more crit/damage stats and maybe drop the avoidance. T5 while I'm running Kara means it really doesn't matter though Prince might be an adventure....
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  20. #20
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    From a pure levelling standpoint, I dumped Deflection & Anticipation for Puncture & Imp SR.

    Simply means more range intake from being hit and less rage output on core specials. If a couple % of avoidance gets you killed, you need to find a better healer

    It makes for a simple plan when levelling: 5/5 Deflection then 5/5 Anticipation.

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