I can see much conflict generated by this, lol.
Just a quick one, wanting to hear peoples thoughts on:
A guild run in say Kara with no real loot system in place, who should get priority over gear
A Main's off spec or an Alt's main spec
The Alt obviously believes they can put the item to better use being main spec, the Main thinks how can i ever build an off spec set when theres always alts to be geared up.
If you gave priority to the Main spec does this include 2 off specs, such resto and balance in feral druids case? Or limit them to one main off spec if that makes any sense lol.
my guild always does alt main spec before main offspec. however, most of our mains get filled up on offspec gear in t6 content so most kara off spec gear isnt an issue anyway, but when it is, alts main spec gets first dibs.
For kara at this point in BC, I'd have them just both roll.
I'm from Onyxia, where trade chat makes you wish you were in the barrens.
We have people declare a mainspec at the start of the run, that's the spec they can roll on.
Alt mainspec has prio. It's just the way it's always been for me.
Tanks: We like it rough.
Keep it civil.
A druid who never specs boomkin wont roll on boomkin gear etc. If people want to roll let them roll. Having an decent geared offspec allowed me to get into sunwell!!!(from mid BT) Having decent geared alts gets me nothing=\
Well this discussion can go on and on, just don't expect people who have everything to carry alts through a dungeon "when there's nothing in it" for them. Other mains however which helped you get the dungeon on farm is an entirely different story.
(And I would go as far as to say for tanks, dps gear is like half mainspec already. Especially in 25 men content, different fights require a different number of tanks so most tanks should have a dps (or for pala healing) set to avoid the hassle of going into every other fight with a different raid setup.)
I should have pointed this a bit different. But bringing alts in an equation can throw off what you can expect. I'll make an example. Zul'Jin drops [item]Berserker's Call[/item]. I would really like to have it on my tank. But it's a dps trinket. So I pass it to the rogue, pass it to the enhancement shaman and pass it to the hunter.Fine you think now all physical dps has the trinket now I at least get a chance to get it and roll against other offspecs. But hey what happens here, mr shaman mr hunter and mr rogue are happy to give up their spot for other people because they have what they need. It even goes so far they bring in people just for Zul'Jin. What I expected was a chance for the trinket after the other mainspecs got it. What I got was a flood of mainspecs which never ended, giving me no chance at all for the trinket.
Last edited by orcstar; 10-12-2008 at 03:35 AM.
Yeah, I'd go with the alt mainspec first. Main offspec... that's why Kara gives badges.
Orcstar, in the situation you give, you simply let people know ahead of time. "Hey, guys, if X drops, I'm rolling on it".
Last edited by tobarstep; 10-12-2008 at 06:18 AM. Reason: added stuff
see as a feral druid i opposed to this simply because an alt rogue who hit 70 2 days ago is not going to come in on Zul'jin and take my Berserkers Call that i will use in sunwell simply because i tanked the run.
that aside, it should always be main > alt no matter what spec it is. The rare exceptions being people like me who have not respeced to balance or resto in 6 months.
one thing also is that healing is being changed to spellpower so "off-set" with healing classes has very little meaning anymore. an item with crit and spellpower drops, a holy priest takes it as a "main spec healing upgrade" even though it is clearly for his DPS set. Or say nightbane drops his staff, a warlock takes it because life tap is now based off spirit instead of spellpower.
This is indeed a very grey area, but i will always feel that main > alt reguardless of if it is an offspec. My priest was full time holy, but healing gear never dropped and my shadow set was so good that when we lost some priests i got to raid BT on bosses where my druid was not needed to tank. Offspec means nothing, its relative, there is a trainer 50G away at all times.
If loot is an issue, set up some rules beforehand. If you outgear Kara generally and are bringing alts/farming badges, then with common sense and considerate players it's not a big deal. If someone needs a specific item that they "miss", agree on that at the start of the run.
The general etiquette, though, is those present in the raid roll for the role that they came to do. If they tank, they roll tank loot. If they DPS, even with the wrong spec, they roll on DPS loot. And so on. If nobody qualifies, there's a general "off specs" roll so as not to waste the item.
Another solid piece of advice is that, if you are the player who's new to the instance and has many upgrades to get from it, please be considerate and pass some exceptional or rare item to the guy who outgears the instance and still needs it.
They are making a major contribution to your success so they deserve it, and it's also one of their last chances to get the item before moving on to higher-level content. You on the other hand will have many more runs ahead of you in that instance.
In my opinion it shouldn't be based on the title of the character, rather the priority to the player.
IE me. I don't have an alt. 4 years in this game and I haven't had anything other then a main.
So offspec is second priority to me.
Then we have Joe Smith. He plays a resto Druid as his main. He has some feral gear on the side. He also has a 70 Warlock and 70 Warrior.
If my Warrior is tanking Kara and he brings his Warrior to DPS, DPS loot should prioritize to me.
This may seem off topic because sunwell is so far away from kara but i promise i have a point.
We brought alt shaman to twins on our 1st kill in pre-kara 5 man blues and some kara epics. And he outhealed the resto druid in 8/8 t6 simply because of the mechanic of the fight. The enh shaman got sat out because he had no resto gear because he had not been allowed to bid on it in his old guild even in kara and ZA because it was his offspec and alt resto shaman got it over him.
Main spec before off-spec, main toons before alts.
Off spec main ~ main spec alt. Just roll.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain - it's time to roll the dice
On our transition from Karazhan to 25 men raiding we had a lot of work to do getting enough people geared, I made a lot of kara parties to gear up guildies so we would have an easier time in SSC.
Last thing I always said was: "we roll on things but I'm the evil lootmaster and reserve the right to ignore the roll" never had any drama :P:P
As someone with 4 raiding 70's, My main sits out to allow others to be able to have a raid spot. So by that logic i should not be able to roll for my "alts" gear over someone with only one 70 who wants to do something different... thats just BS.
The char you signed up for the raid on and are attending on for that night is your "Main" and your prefered spec that your currently raiding as is your "Main spec". In Wrath my guild is dealing with duel specs by going by what your glyphed for and what the guild recognizes your char as ( ie your a dps warrior that has a tank spec for off tanking - your a DPS warrior for loot priorities)
Thats why we just use a dkp system... those willing to bid the most get the item
Judging from the replies its little wonder i was left scratching my head on this one when asked for a ruling. We are a guild formed mainly from people that started late, so this issue hadnt really raised its head before. Generally it was just Mains main spec over Alts main spec roll for the rest like many suggest here. But lately with more and more alts pushing up some players are feeling disgruntled at their lack of a ability to gain offspec items.
I was asked for a ruling on this by 2 guildies, so nothing to do with myself. But i can use myself an example of how i can understand some players frustrations. I just got my T4 offspec helm last night after being MT and RL from the beginning. We took a group that had never been in kara before and expanded into a 25 man raid guild we are today which is just hitting MH now. Having run many heroics/ kara/gruul/mags to help gear people up that ive never had time for an alt untill the last few weeks (he's still only lvl63). With all badge gear, most offspec badge gear + around 500 extras its only now i manage to get the helm. TBH its never bothered me, but i can understand how it might bother others.
Lizana, ive seen a few people just bring their main to raid nights then spend the rest of their time leveling alts. Get them to 70, get them in kara/ZA/Gruuls/Mags which we do on non core nights (hense no offical loot system) and go back to leveling. Where as others will be out running heroics on their mains, making a real effort to make sure their main is in the best possible condition for raiding or simply helping guildies. Plus any item upgrade we can get for someones main raiding toon helps everyone in the raid, for these reasons, in our guild at least, Main will always have priotity over an alt for main spec items.
Last edited by Wartank; 10-12-2008 at 06:17 PM.