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Thread: Brooch of Deftness vs Barbed Choker of Discipline

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    Brooch of Deftness vs Barbed Choker of Discipline

    Ok, I was getting ready to trade my Barbed Choker of Discipline for the Brooch of Deftness to raise my expertise, but am having 2nd thoughts. Trading dodge & Def (don't really need def, but do need dodge) for hit and expertise doesn't quite sit right. Is it worthwhile to trade dodge for expertise? I am light on expertise and dodge both (expertise = 11; Dodge = 19.11) Thanks in advance for your insight.

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  2. #2
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    I would go with the brooch if I were you. I have found occasion to use the barbed choker but that's only when I'm shooting for passive uncrushability and not a real gear set.

    The expertise and hit rating improve your threat straight off which is good, but the real benefit of expertise is lowering the enemy's ability to parry. It's too nice to ignore that as a bonus, 1% fewer parries is going to benefit your more than 1% more dodges in most circumstances on a boss. It's back to back to back boss hits that kill tanks. >

  3. #3
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    definatly keep the barbed chocker for now atleast untill after patch 3.0 comes out. With the loss of anticipation and trading in defence for strenght on several items you may not be able to afford the loss of defence by switching necks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maros_vek View Post
    Ok, I was getting ready to trade my Barbed Choker of Discipline for the Brooch of Deftness to raise my expertise, but am having 2nd thoughts. Trading dodge & Def (don't really need def, but do need dodge) for hit and expertise doesn't quite sit right. Is it worthwhile to trade dodge for expertise? I am light on expertise and dodge both (expertise = 11; Dodge = 19.11) Thanks in advance for your insight.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Considering how closely Dodge and Defense are for pure avoidance it's not really a good idea to draw a line between the two. Stacking defense is never a bad thing (Dodge is better for pure avoidance albeit). I didn't replace my barbed choker of discipline in my avoidance set until the Pendant of the Titans off of RoS. That being said - Keep them both, ESPECIALLY with 3.0 coming out.

    Like was earlier said, expertise is phenominal for reducing parries and thus incoming burst damage - but, dont discount defense as avoidance aswell.

  5. #5
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    Whenever I unequip my Brooch I notice a large difference in the number of misses and parries I get. This is probably just my perception but take it for what you will. I have both necks in question but I rarely if ever use anything other than my Brooch.
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    It's simple really, keep them both and use them when they are most needed. If you need more avoidance use the choker and if you need threat use the brooch. It's not rocket science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurmeli View Post
    It's simple really, keep them both and use them when they are most needed. If you need more avoidance use the choker and if you need threat use the brooch. It's not rocket science.
    Exactly.

  8. #8
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    I did keep both after I got the brooch a while back, and the majority of the time I use the brooch for the little extra stamina and expertise, but after the patch I am just wavering above 490 def and there might be an occasion where I have to switch something else and need to get back some defense so the choker will stay in my bags for now.

    Basically the same answer as above now that I have read them all.
    Last edited by Mordigen; 10-15-2008 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurmeli View Post
    It's simple really, keep them both and use them when they are most needed. If you need more avoidance use the choker and if you need threat use the brooch.
    This bears repeating. The EH versus Avoidance arguments are really a thing of the past, stay versatile and do everyone a favor =]

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  10. #10
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    I dropped my brooch like a rock when 3.02 hit. The chocker is simply better now that we generate so much threat.
    Playing a warrior tank well is its own reward.

  11. #11
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    pft, i still like the reduction of parries AND the HP >:T

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  12. #12
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    What about the Neckless of the Juggernaut? This is what I've been using lately to get me defense up without changing rings (I've already put defense gems in my yellow sockets).

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    yea what about it, hmn ?

    Its all about flexibility, if youre tanking a threat fight Brooch is way to go. If youre doing a avoidance encounter go for juggernaught or whichever avoidance neck you have...

    Brooch is still my main necklace, pendant of titans just when the avoidance is really needed... cant think of any encounter pre sunwell in 3.0.2. where i wouldnt wear my brooch

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath View Post


    yea what about it, hmn ?

    Its all about flexibility, if youre tanking a threat fight Brooch is way to go. If youre doing a avoidance encounter go for juggernaught or whichever avoidance neck you have...
    This. Imo 90% of an encounter for a prot warrior is gearselection. 50% of it is the actual fight: threat rotations, hitting LS/SW/potion/etc at the right time. I carry about 10 trinkets and 2+pieces of gear for each slot with me at all times.

    example:
    I sometimes am asked to OT stuff like felmyst which means I have skeleton duty. I can stack my SBV high for both dmg shield and almost full dmg reduction by putting on some t4/5 pieces with SBV....

  15. #15
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    exactly.

    Gear selection is a huge aspect of beeing a good tank.

    There is no "perfect" gear-set for every encounter... dont get me wrong of course its common to have a "default" tank set, which usually consists out of your best pieces for every slot, practically a allround set...
    This should be your base, from where you change different pieces depending on the situation...

    So think about it, what could you do regarding gear changes to make raiding "easier" for your healers to keep you alive or/and of course generate enough threat that your dps doesnt need to hold back or even give them enough room to let them go totally crazy if needed

  16. #16
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    Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve - Item - World of Warcraft

    Curious why no one mentioned this one. If you went Aldor, it procs for 100 dodge rating. Of course, if you're Scryer like everyone and their dog's dog, it's 100 expertise rating. Which, at least for me, is pretty worthless. I really don't need it up over 10%.

  17. #17
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    I'd go with the choker only if you're under 490 defense and need it to stay uncrittable. If you're over 490 without it, I'd say you and your raid would get more benefit from hitting more of your shield slams, which, after all, is your highest calling as a warrior . Threat is fine, but you can always do more damage.

    If your healers are complaining, toss on the survival piece. If they aren't, do more damage. This is the only rule I use when gearing right now.
    I. Am. Warrior.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurmeli View Post
    It's simple really, keep them both and use them when they are most needed. If you need more avoidance use the choker and if you need threat use the brooch. It's not rocket science.
    You have to remember that when a boss parries it starts attacking faster. So the real question is, does increased expertise actually help you take less damage then the dodge would?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by elapadrinar View Post
    You have to remember that when a boss parries it starts attacking faster. So the real question is, does increased expertise actually help you take less damage then the dodge would?
    Expertise means you'll reach the dodge cap and also hit more in general. Brooch is superior everyday.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by elapadrinar View Post
    You have to remember that when a boss parries it starts attacking faster. So the real question is, does increased expertise actually help you take less damage then the dodge would?
    Not even close. The survivability increase from expertise is marginal at best. The biggest danger of parries pre-3.0 was that they would eat your shield block charges and squeeze in a Crush. Since that won't happen anymore, dodge >>>>>> expertise for survival. Expertise is an amazing threat stat, and a 3rd-class pretty crappy survival stat.
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