From Patch to Wrath -- 3.0 Warriors & Paladins

[Killie]

Cool podcast guys, look forward to the instance and raid info

[brain]

Note: real information doesn't start until well after 13:00m

Was hoping it was going to be a quick concise list of important information for tanks in the patch.

[Embher]

Out of all the options, I think unhittable sounds like the best so far. From an attack table perspective, no hits are landed, which is what this applies to anyways. Even if we sometimes think of a block as a hit, the combat table differentiates between the two.

ok basics of tanking -Attack table

WIthout any stats, possible outcomes of an attack are
Normal hit
Crushing -shows (crushing) in log and is 1.5X the dmg of a normal hit
Crit-shows "crits" in log and is 2X the dmg of the normal hit.
Dodge-fully avoiding the dmg of the hit.
Parry-fully avoiding the dmg of the hit and your melee attack speed increases for your next hit.
Block-partial to full absorption of an attack. Your block value, which is a result of STR and +block value multiplied by your 30% block value increase (both prot paladins and prot warriors have this.), is the AMOUNT of dmg that is reduced from the dmg of the normal hit.
Miss-Attacker misses. Every player has 5% base miss and miss is increased by defense as much as it does for reducing crit chance.

In patch 3/WotLK, crushings will not be possible from bosses 3 levels are higher as it was in BC.

Warrior shield block in patch 3/WotLK will go to 60s cd , 40s cd with prot talent from 5 or 6s in BC.
So now warriors will fear being normally hit over the occasional crushing that shield block let through in BC (When the 1-2 blocking charges were used before the 5 or 6s cd, next unblocked hit could be a crushing or normal hit.) Now the warrior shield block cd has been increased, so normal hits are possible often. Though, critical block talent and shield block double your BV when you are blocking and shield block raises your block chance* by 100% during those 10s of the 40s cd.

Paladins still have holy shield with 8s cd but the duration increased from 8 to 10s, helping with lag. Though, I had 0 crushings in BC with holy shield of 8 charges with 8s cd/duration, spamming it, where warriors had 5 to 10% crushing occurrence in real wws reports with the shield block of 1-2 charges with 5 to 6s cd. THe good thing is that crushings are gone in WotLK and warriors have doubling BV abilities and talents to make up for the long cd of shield block.

Paladins are inheritently unhittable.
Warriors are hittable but with doubling BV talents.

This is roughly equal in dmg mitigation and has its pros and cons.

Healers will see a predictable dmg intake on apaladin where warriors will have spiky dmg with normal hits. Though warriors can save their shield block for certain predictable parts of the fights, where paladins can be consistently mitigating to help with special attacks that are random and not predictable.

(By the way, I am paladin tank on Burning Blade, have experience with SSC and Hyjal but I took a break from WoW for the past few months and I have been playing on my paladin on Public Test realm for patch 3 the last few weeks and going crazy researching all the new changes for protection paladins and protection warriors. Please don't hate me cause I am paladin. :/ )

[Worldie]

That's indeed the common opinion currently about the "flavour difference" between the paladin and warrior.

For once it'll be relatively fun to see healers telling the warrior "you take more damage!1111oneone", even if in fact it's not true, but we all know healers just look how much you spike rather than the actual stats :P

[Embher]

That's indeed the common opinion currently about the "flavour difference" between the paladin and warrior.

For once it'll be relatively fun to see healers telling the warrior "you take more damage!1111oneone", even if in fact it's not true, but we all know healers just look how much you spike rather than the actual stats :P

Wow, there are paladins from maintankadin on this site.. Heya, pal, wave...

[jere]

ok basics of tanking -Attack table

WIthout any stats, possible outcomes of an attack are
Normal hit
Crushing -shows (crushing) in log and is 1.5X the dmg of a normal hit
Crit-shows "crits" in log and is 2X the dmg of the normal hit.
Dodge-fully avoiding the dmg of the hit.
Parry-fully avoiding the dmg of the hit and your melee attack speed increases for your next hit.
Block-partial to full absorption of an attack. Your block value, which is a result of STR and +block value multiplied by your 30% block value increase (both prot paladins and prot warriors have this.), is the AMOUNT of dmg that is reduced from the dmg of the normal hit.
Miss-Attacker misses. Every player has 5% base miss and miss is increased by defense as much as it does for reducing crit chance.

In patch 3/WotLK, crushings will not be possible from bosses 3 levels are higher as it was in BC.

Umm, I already knew about the attack table, and being a paladin, I am familiar with the mechanics.

Though your combat table is a bit off. Block should be right after crush and before any pure avoidance.

As I said, the combat table differentiates between hits and blocks. Even the table you posted shows that.

[Embher]

Umm, I already knew about the attack table, and being a paladin, I am familiar with the mechanics.

Though your combat table is a bit off. Block should be right after crush and before any pure avoidance.

As I said, the combat table differentiates between hits and blocks. Even the table you posted shows that.

Basics were not directed at you. Your quote mentioned attack table. I was expanding on it for other people on the discussion. Thanks for ordering it up about which one is considered first. My list is not ordered in any way, to be clear, to others.

[Radhja]

that's... something entirely different.

Defense Capped would work just fine.

[phaze]

Defense Capped would work just fine.

That's also something different. Defense itself does not cap in effectiveness (under normal gearing), just the -crit contribution.

[Waal]

Another phrase for your consideration:

Worst Case: Block.

As in, "I've reached Worst Case: Block on this set of gear..." or, "I'm at WC:B."


(As this is my first post, let me also say that I love this site almost as much as I love this community. Keep up the great work!)

[Ciderhelm]

Another phrase for your consideration:

Worst Case: Block.

As in, "I've reached Worst Case: Block on this set of gear..." or, "I'm at WC:B."


(As this is my first post, let me also say that I love this site almost as much as I love this community. Keep up the great work!)

That's not bad, and it could be catchy.

[Nez]

All joking aside, have you ever tried to hit a marmot with a stick? They have to be running some serious avoid numbers...

[Bigunns]

I really like the pod cast. However, give us more meat baby. I want details. Don't worry about it being to smart.

Thanks

[Plzdontpunt]

You scared the kangaroos ! (I might have had the volume up too loud hehe)

Thanks for another great podcast! I listen to them during my long road trips in the Country and have enjoyed them so much (both the meaningless banter and the good info) that I have now registered here on Tankspot and yes, I promise, I will click on the donation button that you mentioned once or twice or maybe three times haha

Thanks again! Can't wait for the next one.


B.

[Jock]

I'm still with ciderhelm's original though process on this. Being "unhittable" doesn't mean your are immune to damage. For the entire length of this game, we have been emphasizing to all new tanks that being "HIT" and "BLOCKING" an attack are two separate things. Why suddenly do we need to change the way we have discussed this issue?


For the purposes of theorycrafting in the tanking community, we should all be able to understand a basic hit table and the fact that pushing "hit" off the table doesn't make you immune to physical damage. If not, we need to get another job in game.



As a side note, unless I am reading incorrectly, def/dodge/parry all cap out now correct? This was actually to help prevent rogues or cat druids from tanking bosses like Mother (in BT) was it not?

[ussnorway]

Can any 1 confirm or deny if damage shield is working? I know Improved disarm & spell reflection are not working but damage shield is harder to test.

[Kazeyonoma]

Damage shield definitely works. Spell reflection and improved disarm are working as well, I don't know who told you they aren't.

[ussnorway]

can you post a screen shot of a mob taking 10% more damage while it is disarmed?

[Leytur]

Blocked hittable.

[Khayra]

Can any 1 confirm or deny if damage shield is working? I know Improved disarm & spell reflection are not working but damage shield is harder to test.

Improved spell reflection works like a charm. And why should damage shield be hard to test? Put on your tanking gear, pull a mob, stop your auto attack and go get some coffee. You should know if it works when you come back.