From Patch to Wrath -- 3.0 Warriors & Paladins

[Ciderhelm]

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This podcast is an overview of what you need to pay attention to and prepare for once 3.0 launches and up through the release of Wrath of the Lich King. This details the extensive changes for Protection Warriors and Paladins.

[Duzzit]

spotted tanking...with spots lol.

[Galushi]

Cider, you are correct about shield block. increases by +100% sbv pre modifers. Just tested it with my dps gear on beta.

593 SBV with Shield Mastery (130%)
456 SBV without (100%)
1049 SBV with SM and Shield Block (230%)

[Darksend]

Thanks cider, i actually have most of the guide writen but because of the way things change (the notorious druid nerf patch early on in BC) i want to hold off on posting it till people start getting 80 on live and really see how things work. most of what i have done is the explainations of talents, listening various builds, talking about how builds will be very differnt simply because of 5 and 10 mans you wont always have a warrior or a DK for thunderclap/demo.

what i really need help with is the numbers, threat values, things like that. ive been talking to toskk (a very well know druid theorycrafter about trying to get him involved here) and hes gona help me when he has the time but hes usually pretty busy with his other projects. last time i spoke to him he was working on the 3.0 dps cycles and numbers and when he finishes with that hes going to start his level 80 tanking analysis so once hes done with that ill try to get him to post that stuff here as well.

[Zelgius]

I don't consider myself overly serious but getting passed the beginning was very difficult for me.

[Alent]

Cider. Passive unhittable?

Say it: "guaranteed block."

[Ciderhelm]

Say it: "guaranteed block."

That's not accurate.

[mero12513]

Unhittable is not accurate either: you can still be hit.

The combat log will read: Boss hits tank for 4000 damage (2000 blocked).

[Lore]

Unhittable is not accurate either: you can still be hit.

The combat log will read: Boss hits tank for 4000 damage (2000 blocked).

Speaking from a mechanics perspective though, that's a block, not a hit :P

[veneretio]

Unhittable is not accurate either: you can still be hit.

The combat log will read: Boss hits tank for 4000 damage (2000 blocked).

...

Let's be honest... that's a block.

Guaranteed Block doesn't make sense because you can have an attack dodged, parried or missed.

Unhittable makes logical sense.

[Lore]

The only problem with "Unhittable" is that then we'll get tons of threads of people saying "I have 102.4% miss, dodge, parry, and block... and the boss hit me! EVERYTHING I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT IS A LIE"

[jere]

Out of all the options, I think unhittable sounds like the best so far. From an attack table perspective, no hits are landed, which is what this applies to anyways. Even if we sometimes think of a block as a hit, the combat table differentiates between the two.

[mero12513]

No matter what, we're still going to have to retrain the non-tank community about the terminology. If I were to tell my healer "I'm unhittable", he would promptly respond with "Bullshit, you get hit all the time".

[adenosine]

On dual wield devastate, you mentioned this was not a good way to go about killing things. Could you give some clarification on this point?

Do you need to be pulling larger packs in order for the shield using style to be better, or does sword and board and revenge simply make it better than the 3% crit and whirlwind that one would get in berserker stance?

Related to this, in a fight where you are a pure dps role are you still going to be using a shield to dps or will the rage generation just not be there without incoming damage?

[Ciderhelm]

On dual wield devastate, you mentioned this was not a good way to go about killing things. Could you give some clarification on this point?

Do you need to be pulling larger packs in order for the shield using style to be better, or does sword and board and revenge simply make it better than the 3% crit and whirlwind that one would get in berserker stance?

Related to this, in a fight where you are a pure dps role are you still going to be using a shield to dps or will the rage generation just not be there without incoming damage?

I was hoping to emphasize the point a little more clearly than I must have.

Rage generation with 1h/shield is not a restriction on your 1h/shield rotation. Sword and Board procs so often that it's not hard at all to have the rage.

This isn't scientific because I haven't run the math, but I'd wager that 1h/shield -- even when not tanking and not proccing revenge -- will be dealing significantly more single-target damage than DW Devastate. I can't say this for sure because Heroic Strike usage does factor into this.

[Kossaks]

could use uncritable since its more specific

[Stubbi]

Based on your podcast, does this make sense for 70 spec then building up the missing parry/dodge (deflection/anticipation talents) ?


WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator


I think I grabbed everything there was to boost damage while ensuring enough rage intake with lower defenses.

I am still pretty puzzled about the value of Incite (3/3) vs Imp Heroic Strike (3/3) ... Guess I'll just have to see how much time I spend starved for rage.

[Lore]

could use uncritable since its more specific

that's... something entirely different.

[loquatious]

We are debating the term for the condition where we can block all (or damn near all) incoming damage so that the mobs are effictively unable to hurt us.

Uncrittable= wrong because they may be able to crit
Unhittable is wrong because they obviously hit.


The term you are all missing is "Nigh-Invulnerable" made famous by The Tick.

Obviously you can slam him through a brik wall but he will simply dust himself off and continue to battle for justice!

[Norrath]

"Pushed hit off the attack table" >_>