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Thread: WOTLK spec

  1. #1
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    WOTLK spec

    I have been looking carefully at the changes to warriors for wrath because currently I am playing a hunter in T6 content but have been asked by friends to switch to my warrior for tanking in wrath. The spec I had come up with is summarized as such

    Arms (12 points)

    3/3 Improved Heroic Strike
    5/5 Deflection
    2/2 Improved Charge
    2/2 Impale

    Fury (8 points)

    3/3 Armored to the Teeth
    5/5 Cruelty

    Protection (51 points)

    5/5 Shield Specialization
    3/3 Improved Thunder Clap
    3/3 Incite
    5/5 Anticipation
    1/1 Last Stand
    2/2 Shield Mastery
    5/5 Toughness
    3/3 Puncture
    5/5 One-Handed Weapon Specialization
    2/2 Improved Defensive Stance
    3/3 Focused Rage
    3/3 Vitality
    1/1 Warbringer
    1/1 Devastate
    3/3 Critical Block
    3/3 Sword and Board
    2/2 Damage Shield
    1/1 Shockwave

    My question now that they have changed armored to the teeth away
    from str to AP, is the threat increase really worth the 3 points
    since it no longer affects BV?

    P.S.: I do have experience tanking in T4/ZA content, but that was before the AP based threat changes. Any suggestions on how to improve my spec would be greatly appreciated as well.
    Last edited by Snugglasaur; 10-02-2008 at 03:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    Armored to the teeth isn't that terrible; it still benefits shockwave, heroic strikes, and Thunderclap.

    Just a bit of quick math...

    Say you have 16000 armor (at 70), that'll be about 267 AP for you. Sure, it's no str, but it'll still help with your TPS. At 80, I wouldn't be surprised if warriors were hitting 30k+, which will be 500+ AP.

    As for your build, it's...well, let's just say it's a bit different than what I'm used to. The lack of concussion blow kinda threw me off a bit and with the new vigilance, it's kinda hard to pass up.

    In my opinion, you could sacrifice 1% to crit to grab concussion blow. It's too good of a utility to pass up.

    Everything else is solid where it is. If you find other things that are appealling or needed for specific content (such as imp. spell reflect, vigiliance, etc.), take points out of cruelty and put it wherever you like.

  3. #3
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    i suppose my immediate 5/5 into cruelty are from pre 3.0 habits. 11% crit ftw!!!! thank you for the input though i will have to take a second look at vigilance since the change.

  4. #4
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    In my opinion, you could sacrifice 1% to crit to grab concussion blow.
    THIS.
    concussion blow went from a stun to keep caster mobs chill, to a nice threat burst if chained with a shield slam.. it's amazing

  5. #5
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    Your build is pretty much where I think I am headed, though with CB as others have mentioned. At least as a baseline and will fine tune once I hit 80 and have a solid feel for all the new talents.

    For the time being, I'm going to fore go Vigilance, even with the change I don't find it compelling enough to spend the point there...maybe in practice it will be different, but for now, at least, I won't have it.

    Imp Spell Reflect looks interesting and may be worth getting, but I guess it depends on the content.

    I do agree with kpxneophyte about Cruelty being a place we can siphon a point or to from if needed.

  6. #6
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    Here's how my talents look like.

    In general, I chose:

    3/3 Imp Heroic Strike - reduces Heroic Strike rage cost by 3.
    3/3 Puncture - reduces Devastate and Sunder rage cost by 3.
    3/3 Focused Rage - reduces all offensive abilities rage cost by 3.

    Technically, glyphs and S&B will free up a lot of rage cost but we'll see how much we'll be able to spam "next melee" abilities without going out of rage. If rage isn't an issue, I may move some of the points I posted from above to another tier / talent.

  7. #7
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    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    This is the spec I'm going to go with. We'll see how it does.

  8. #8

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coro View Post
    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    This is the spec I'm going to go with. We'll see how it does.
    If that's going to be your tanking build, you're going to be hurting without anticipation and focused rage. If not, then more power to ya.

    The leveling stuff I could really care less. However, for your raiding specs, survivability and rage conservation are key. Stuff like shield spec, focused rage, puncture, etc. will help with your survivability and help you save rage. Remember, you can't generate threat when you don't have enough rage and you sure as hell can't generate threat when you're dead.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpxneophyte View Post
    If that's going to be your tanking build, you're going to be hurting without anticipation
    I was reading somewhere about diminishing returns but haven't yet gotten the full story, is it your total dodge/parry that is subject to diminishing returns or only your dodge/parry from items?


    Edit: Found answer two threads down.

  11. #11
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    Back and forth on specs...

    From what I've heard rage is less of an issue with the new mechanics. This may play out differently, and I was certainly going to err on the side of having tons of rage; but, this may have been why he ignored the rage-saving abilities. Then again, if they aren't useful, why are they still in there, eh?

    The change to vigilance had made me pick it up, but I'm not sure if it's a must have. I had originally picked up imp spell reflect...thinking about being able to replace a pally in Hyjal, I suppose...but I think there are more useful ways to spend those points now that I think about it. I hadn't considered cruelty a must-have like it was pre 3.0, with the increases to crit of our major abilities in the prot tree. With crit block, Sw/Bd, and incite...I'm not sure how necessary it is. In all of my builds, I've only put 2 in puncture, cause I'm just not sure where to give up that point to get the third one.

    So, I was looking at more like:

    70 Tanking

    with an open mind to moving something around to pick up that last point in incite...

    At 80, I've seen several builds that ignore cruelty and go straight to impale/deep wounds...I can imagine plenty of boss mechanics where having a bleed on the boss would help you keep aggro...and no tank rotation includes rend.

    80 tanking?

    Then again, there's a bunch of stuff to do in between 70 and 80, and I hear a lot of it is AOE, which may make a more AOE centered build make sense once wrath hits. I did notice that no one is picking up improved demo shout--and I have a feeling it may become more valuable when we get to the shorter, more intense boss fights of wrath. I just don't know what to toss, because impale is teh sexy.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kpxneophyte View Post
    The leveling stuff I could really care less. However, for your raiding specs, survivability and rage conservation are key. Stuff like shield spec, focused rage, puncture, etc. will help with your survivability and help you save rage. Remember, you can't generate threat when you don't have enough rage and you sure as hell can't generate threat when you're dead.
    I don't think rage conservation can be considered separately from threat per second, and puncture is just not measuring up in that department. It'll be easy to pop a couple points over from cruelty or spell reflect if they're needed - we shall see. Hopefully when we end up in low rage situations in the future we can just use our AoE threat and pull more mobs.

    I'm not sure why you mentioned focused rage as it's present in all my builds. It's many many times more valuable than puncture, too.

    I decided to fill out shield spec at 80 to make sure I'm at max mitigation, and because threat doesn't look like a big problem, but it's really not a very valuable talent. Especially at 70 (where I'm skipping several points in it), the itemization is not there yet to support it. If I find I need more threat, shield spec is first on the chopping block.

  13. #13
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    I actually found that puncture is completely not worth it the points are better spent in something else.

    Most of the time the rotation I was noticing on the ptr was SS>Rev and if a S&B procced SS again boviously then I'd only have what 2 seconds left until rev came up again so I could probably only get 1 Devastate in that time which did not warrant 3 points for 3 rage because I was maybe 30% of the time hitting devastate due to the buff to Revenge.

    Also Optimoos' threat simulator showed that Impale was around a 100 tps increase. Now 100 tps over time is ALOT but for 10 points it is quite a hefty point hog for better and niftier things in prot.


    This is the current 80 spec I plan on going with the current talents is this

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    There are a few points you can change around like the 2 in booming voice but the way I see it is the longer a shout lasts the less GCD's and rage used for it even though that amount is neglegable.

    Depending if and what disarm can be used on those points are up in the air. Right now like everyone still says the threat from Vigilance is not needed and the 3% dr is miniscule.

    So overall there are 4 total points you can move around in that spec but as of now thats the spec I'd probably be using.



    You could spec something like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for Impale but like I said it's showing up to not truthfully be worth all those points. It may be a dps and tps increase but it is not by alot.
    Last edited by Mefear; 10-05-2008 at 06:26 PM. Reason: edit*

  14. #14
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    I think I"m going to go with this tanking build at 80:

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    While Impale is very nice, especially with things some of the extra crit on abilities from the prot tree, I just don't think improved charge is really worth the talent points to reach Impale. With as rage efficient as this build is I don't anticipate needing the extra bit of rage, and I honestly don't forsee using the ability regularily enough to make a terribly significant difference.

    The 3 points in Armored to the Teeth could go to Cruelty if that proved to be the more valuable choice in terms of threat/dps.

    You never know how these encounters are going to be designed though. Maybe Bliz will throw us a curveball and make a lot of raid bosses disarmable, making those two points in improved disarm mandatory.

  15. #15
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    70 = now

    Well, 70 tanking seems to be the more pressing concern, methinks. Plenty of time to fiddle with the 80 spec. We're 70 NOW afterall, and and 3.0 hits before xpac.

    So, you say puncture/vigilance aren't worth their points?

    Tanking at 70 should look something like this then, no?

  16. #16
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    Yea I actually find myself hitting devastate not even close to what we do now because of Rev+S&B procs.

    I think Optimoos will post his threat simulator somewhere but when I ran 2 sims 1 with and 1 without Impale it seemed to not make up the TPS for the hefty amount of points to get to it.

    I think a 70 spec would look something like this.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    You 'Could' put the points from cruelty into Imp spell reflect, I don't see why not 4% spell miss from a boss should be quite nice but I see a bunch of tank builds without it for whatever reason, maybe it does not make the bosses spell miss 4% of the time I do not completely know but the way the talent says it 4% spell miss is 4% spell miss I would assume.
    Last edited by Mefear; 10-06-2008 at 05:11 AM. Reason: more

  17. #17
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    I think I'm gonna roll this one until wotlk starts:
    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    I will test it and maybe change ATT with Incite. The rest of points stay in place.

    In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire.
    Panda Cub with a Gnome pet!

  18. #18
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    This site seems to be something similar to WWS in what it shows but this one actually shows threat.

    Though I found something very interesting about what abilities are generating the bulk of the threat in WotLK atm.

    WOW Meter Online - More logs!!!!!!

    Click on Imbamoo he is the protection warrior tank and click his name then click Details and above the red bar there is a 'View Threat Stats' you can click on.

    From what this chart says Heroic strike is currently generating 1/3 of our threat followed by Shield slam then revenge.

    Take a look at this his Damage out Table it shows Devastate hit 20 times while Shockwave hit ONLY 6 times. Now go to the Threat table with 14 more hits Devastate was STILL beaten by shockwave in total generated threat.


    With the information provided from this awesome website you can EASILY tell what points you can and cannot sacrifice and what abilities and even glyphs you should use and focus on now.

    I think this link from a user on the WotLK BETA warrior forums is very very very useful tool to help out us tanks to see what is happening and what we should look to prepare for.

  19. #19
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    Oh yea it is patchwerk. Which is definitely an infinite rage situation but like I said the information from this should help Immensely.

  20. #20
    Useful tool, but keep in mind that meters like that will make heroic strike look a little better than it is. Heroic strike takes over a white swing that would have caused some threat without being heroic.

    However it's true that we are going to have lots of rage and will be hitting a lot of heroic strikes. So a quick weapon is going to be as important as ever, and talents like Incite will be well worth it.

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