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Thread: Slam changes

  1. #1
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    Slam changes

    Gamnin's recent post about upcoming Warrior changes included something that caught my eye:

    Slam – We’re working to change this ability to suspend the swing timer when you are using the ability. In other words, if you’re .5 sec away from swinging your weapon when you start using Slam you’ll be .5 sec from swinging your weapon after Slam goes off.
    This is pretty clearly a huge mechanic change - first, it doesn't require the careful timing that the current version does. Second, it allows it to be used more than once in a rotation without sending DPS spiraling down. This adds a lot more complexity to the ability, which I'm going to start (and hopefully continue ) analyzing here.

    Math (Not painful, but you can skip the section if you'd like)
    Using Slam x number of times will reduce your white DPS according to this equation:
    Code:
    white DPS lost = weapon_damage/(weapon_speed + 0.5 * x) - weapon_damage/weapon_speed
    Using Slam x number of times will increase your yellow DPS as follows:
    Code:
    yellow dps gained = (weapon_damage * x)/(weapon_speed + 0.5 * x)
    English
    In simple terms, the functions above show that there are diminishing returns on both the damage gained slamming (each subsequent slam will add less dps than the last) and the white damage lost by slamming (each slam reduces less white damage than the last).

    There's a lot that can be analyzed here, and I've only just started putting my head to it. I thought I'd post this here to see if anyone else has any thoughts, or in hopes that someone might have already done some of the maths for me

    When I get the time, I'd like to look at the new Slam vs. Heroic Strike as a rage dump. I'd also like to see if I can determine its optimal use in an Arms rotation relative to other abilities like MS or WW (for example, how many slams should be fired off inbetween each swing before it becomes more effective to MS?). I'll end up getting some more useful equations along the way, such as a merged equation taking the place of the two above.

    This post will be updated as I get more done on this.

  2. #2
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    sounds like a good start. I'm normally terribad at consistent math so i'll try my best to help you out but don't expect much. Yeh it's something I've thought about. With slam being changed like this.... would you rather spend the 20 rage and slam twice in a rotation rather than heroic strike?

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  3. #3
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    Slam got changed to 10 rage? Wow I defintely missed that one.

    Even if it's still 15 rage, 2 slams>1 MS for pve since rage-wise that would work out equal.

  4. #4
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    i meant 20 rage each slam =P so 40 rage to slam twice, my bad lol.

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  5. #5
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    To me its like a way more efficient heroic strike. Basically figure out what half a second of your white dps works out to. Idk...400 white dps. So your gonna pause your attack timer for half a second, giving up 200 dmg (and some rage of course) to get the full dmg of an attack + 200ish dmg. Id say thats very worth it. Id almost say thats more efficient then Mortal strike, tho the seller on mortal strike is it doesnt delay your white attacks at all and gets a 10% talented dmg bonus.

    I see Arms becomeing a whole lot more fun with the slam change.

  6. #6
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    but mortal strike is also normalized so it will almost always hit less than slam which isn't normalized. big 3.8 speed weapon? BIG slams.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    i meant 20 rage each slam =P so 40 rage to slam twice, my bad lol.
    Are you messing with me? Isn't slam 15 rage currently?

  8. #8
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    I'm a bleeding retard, you are correct sir, 15 rage O_o.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  9. #9
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    With the new changes, I see a lot of potential in a slam<>HS<>Overpower<>slam rotation with >50 rage, and slam<>whitehit<>Overpower<>Slam under 50 rage. You sub in rend for that second slam every few rotations to keep it on the mob for the overpower procs.

    Unfortunately we are still in a situation where the best instant attack available to an arms warrior is still not worth using in pve.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    but mortal strike is also normalized so it will almost always hit less than slam which isn't normalized. big 3.8 speed weapon? BIG slams.
    Uggh, I just thought of something not pleasent...

    What if now slam wont be considered a "next swing" attack so:

    1) it gets normalized

    2) it activates the GCD

  11. #11
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    if that happens it becomes useless, we present it to blizz they fix it or watch as imp slam never gets spec'd ever again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  12. #12
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    1) it gets normalized

    2) it activates the GCD
    1) It shouldn't - Slam has a 1.5s cast time, and AP normalization only applies to instants.

    2) Doesn't it do that already?

    I was looking around MMOC for the ability descriptions, and it looks like Slam adds 250 bonus damage at level 80. I thought that the bonus damage component was removed - am I confusing this with the Overpower change?

    Heroic Strike
    The key thing here is to take into account our old friend, the glancing blow. A glancing blow has a 25% chance to occur, and reduces damage by 76%. This equates to white hits doing 94% of weapon damage, on average.

    So, the factors to consider when comparing Slam to HS as follows:

    - HS creates a yellow hit, which will increase white damage by 6.4%.
    - Slam slows the next white hit, which effectively reduces its damage by a % relative to the player's attack speed

    Here are the relevant equations:
    Code:
    HS bonus = 495 + 6.4% of white_damage
    Slam bonus = weapon damage + 250 - white_damage * [1-(weapon_speed)/(weaponspeed + 0.5)]
    Solving the system with a 3.6s swing shows that if you're hitting for over 320 weapon damage, you're better off using Slam. The slower your swing, the better Slam gets compared to HS.

    It looks like Slam is better in almost every way than HS - it costs less rage, will do more damage for any reasonable gear level, and produces less threat. Even if the 250 bonus damage gets removed (or is removed? it's hard to follow the ability changes...), Slam will be better for anyone who isn't running around naked.

    Slam vs. Mortal Strike

    Spending 30 rage will result in
    Code:
    MS = weapon_damage + 380
    Slam = 2 * weapon_damage + 500 - weapon_damage * [1-(weapon_speed)/(weaponspeed + 1)]
    With a 3.6s weapon, the Slam equation becomes
    Code:
    1.77 * weapon_damage + 500
    Which absolutely knocks the stuffing out of MS. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure this is going to be true for any reasonable swing speed.

    However, consider that two Slams cost more than 30 rage because they slow down your swing, which will lower you rage intake. In fact, with a 3.6s weapon it's equivalent to only getting 78% of what you normally would.

    Hopefully I'll be able to follow this up with some optimization stuff soon.

    Keep in mind that I haven't accounted for Slam's non-normalized damage, so things are tilted slightly against it in this post.

    Edit: Just as a heads up, it could be a while before I get to the next part. The math gets interesting
    Last edited by shiz98; 09-04-2008 at 06:51 PM.

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