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Thread: Commendation of Kael'thas....tanking you say??

  1. #41
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    That's assuming you haven't gotten low outside of a silence and had it proc meaning it's on cooldown every time he silences.
    Heh, good point. But at least you see where I'm going with it

  2. #42
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    It was a joke and i'm pretty sure Kazey got over it. If you don't have anything on topic to add to the conversation then aren't you being as "blizz forums" as I am if not moreso? No offence, just seems like trolling to me for something that's obviously fizzled out....

    Edit: lol Rev, i'll go so far as to say it's maybe not as bad as I make it out to be but we're still entitled to our opinions (and to the right to fail at expressing them )

  3. #43
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    true, but if you're gonna be tossing out hypothetical scenarios, try to account for variables present on both sides of an argument.

    The scenario I described is possible, as is the one you described. Both highlight the aspect of the trinket that makes it draw your ire, and that is that you do not control the activation of the trinket, outside factors do. When it comes to an item like that, I firmly believe it comes down to playstyle preference, confidence in healers, the encounter, etc.

    Do you like the idea of controlling your own dodge trinket, and having it available every 2 minutes, no matter the situation? Keeping in mind that once its burned, you're without it for 2 whole minutes? (which is anywhere from 20-33% of a boss fight, thats a lot)

    or, do you like riding the adrenaline pumping, roller coaster of a dodge trinket, which could or could not out-perform the above mentioned stable guys trinket?

  4. #44
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    You need both stam and avoidance to be an effective tank. Just because a tank uses CoK, doesn't mean they have forsaken their avoidance. Most BT level gear has a lot of red/yellow slots. Ill get back to this in a bit.

    57 stamina= 3.8 blue sockets
    38 dodge rating= 3.8 red sockets

    So the 2 trinkets are about even in terms of passive ilevel. Why do I use CoK over pocket watch almost every time? Because avoidance is situational. There are times when I want to avoid every attack for 10 seconds and there are times I want to get hit so I can generate threat.

    Now back to sockets. Most BT level gear has red and yellow sockets. Assuming you want to hit X health(and 19000 buffed is way too low for where you are), you can either do it by socketing some 15 stams and using a pocket watch or you can socket some avoidance/hybrid gems(get socket bonus) with a CoK. You'll end up with better overall stats that way.

  5. #45
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    Sorry that was something else I should have clarified, I was talking about a hypothetical tank in SSC/TK plus, personally i'm pushing 22K buffed HP with a mix of stam and hybrid gems.

    I have a good rapport with my healers and when I spike low I can usually tell if i'm going to get a heal or not (sure there's times when I don't but usually...) so in most situations yes I do like to have the pocket watch button under my control. I'm very much a stable guy, I like the solid avoidance with the option to boost it when I feel it's needed. I'm realising here though that you're dead right in that everyone's different and has their own playstyle, I guess mines a little different to the majority

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebug View Post
    [item]Ancient Aqir Artifact[/item] Useless? Well its almost the same passive avoidance as Moroes (nevermind that parry increases your threat) So really we should be comparing the procs.

    Moroes: Increases dodge rating by 300 (15.85% @ L70) for 10 seconds. (2 minute cooldown)
    Aqir: Increases armor by 2500 for 20 seconds. (2 minute cooldown)

    * As the cooldowns are the same we can ignore them and just look at the effect.
    * Aqir's duration is 20 seconds compared to 10 seconds on Moroes, so in this regard it is twice as effective (to be noted again later)

    300 dodge rating vs 2500 armor:
    300 dodge rating = 15.85% reduction in damage taken overall (someone will probably argue this point, but... sue me)
    2500 armor = (Well I know I am at 18k armor in mostly t5/badge so we'll start there) vs a lvl 73 attacker 18k armor is 60.08% reduction. 20.5k is 63.155%. Not much eh? well you forget how armor works. With 18k armor you are taking 39.92% damage and with 20.5k you are taking 36.845% or a difference of 8.43%.

    Moroes wins! Except it lasts half as long... meaning we double the 'worth' of Aqir or a comparable 16.86% reduction vs 15.85% on Moroes.

    Edit: Oh, and you still get the rage of being hit with the Aqir compared to zero rage from the Moroes.
    My point is, it that I use Ironshield pots which last for 2mins and give me the same armor and parry is not a stat that you would stack by any means, its just something that you have. I can use so many other trinkets that give me such a better return. So yes it is useless especially if you have much better options as far as trinkets are concerned.

  7. #47
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    If it's that much of an issue why not have both? On most bosses, especially in BT I use both, kinda neccessary on one like Bloodboil where your armour gets a serious panning, especially if you get a refresh.

    Commendation for Stam & oh sh!t avoidance, with watch and stoneshield pots for controlled mitigation.

    Usually I have the furies deck with the commendation for a threat/stam combo, with option on blocker. Romulos vial never dropped, or RL's had a brainfart on the roll, Shard roll is always lost, but after seeing the tanking trinket that Bloodboil dropped, hoovered up by the other warrior on DKP then I'd be tempted to use the commendation and that, if I could get grubby mitts on one.
    Former TBC/LK Tank
    Waiting for Dunmail Jnr to sleep to enable online gaming.

  8. #48
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    One point I haven't seen made:

    You can swap items other than your trinkets. What I love about the commendation is that it lets me put on lower-EH gear for more avoidance (I don't have the pocketwatch, because Moroes is a stingy SOB who hasn't dropped it in 4 months of full clears).

    The 57sta is so attractive because I can put it on in an avoidance fight, and put on my avoidance gear, and still keep my EH high. If I swapped in an avoidance trinket in its place, I lose 57sta which is hard to make up for in a single piece. The same goes for my Shard of Contempt; there are no other pieces with 44expertise, so when I'm swapping out expertise items but still need to be mindful of my expertise, the shard goes up so I can keep my stats respectable.

    So from a "balancing act" perspective, the commendation just rocks.
    Last edited by ebs2002; 07-14-2008 at 10:15 AM.

  9. #49
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    I think you meant Shard of Contempt curnguz, mixed up your words thar.

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  10. #50
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    *looks up* that's what it says! I think you're just going crazy, Kaz... ;-)

  11. #51
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    Last edited by ebs2002; Today at 10:15 AM.
    Busted!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  12. #52
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    I like the way you say 'stam whore' as if that's a bad thing.

  13. #53
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    As much as I agree with a lot of peoples comments in here now (pains me to say it) I still have a peeve with people calling the commendation an "oh shit" trinket. It's value lies in the stam and the average amount of avoidance it provides across a fight. Relying on this as an 'oh shit' button is like a pally relying solely on crit heals for mana regen. Sure there's a chance it's effective but there's also a good chance it's not. Yes your commendation may save you if it's on cooldown at the right time but there's no guarantees. And "oh shit" button to me is an ability or item use/proc that can be activated when you need it, commendation to me doesn't provide this. I guess i'm slashing at my initial argument and agreeing that the commendation is less a crap trinket like I said it was and more a situational choice. But counting on it to save you seems foolish to me (even though I know many of you will say it HAS saved you before). You wouldn't plan to have a picnic on a day that's forecast for rain even though there's a strong chance the weather service got it wrong (as they're totally useless)

    edit: apologies for /walloftextcrit

  14. #54
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    It's clearly not an oh shit button. Especially since... you know... it isn't a button. Clicking it won't do much.
    "We actually talked today about adding an item level 300 shirt that did absolutely nothing but mess with mods that attempt to boil down players to gear scores. " -Ghostcrawler

  15. #55
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    But counting on it to save you seems foolish to me (even though I know many of you will say it HAS saved you before).
    I don't "count on it to save me", but I certainly don't ignore it's effect. I never die and go "WTF, *looks at combat log to see if my trinket was on cooldown*". Surely if I'm planning for an "Oh-Shit" button, I put on something with more oh-shit buttons (or usually, I pop last stand or an ironshield potion + healthstone/seed). But I'm not going to pretend that my trinket doesn't give me avoidance, because it does.

  16. #56
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    I don't rely on it for an on shit button, but bad things do happen, and when they do it's a nice buffer to have. 8% dodge when you need it most is good, but the huge ass stam is the reason you wear it. People wear the darkmoon cards for stam for some item sets, this is just insanely better.

  17. #57
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    Relying on this as an 'oh shit' button is like a pally relying solely on crit heals for mana regen. Sure there's a chance it's effective but there's also a good chance it's not.
    Valid point. Using the pocketwatch instead of the commendation gives you more control over your survivability; I don't think anyone would argue against that. That doesn't mean it will save you more times than the commendation though.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    Relying on this as an 'oh shit' button is like a pally relying solely on crit heals for mana regen.

    Pallies should be able to get over 30% crit in decent gear, 1 in 3 sounds pretty reliable imo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    Sure there's a chance it's effective but there's also a good chance it's not. Yes your commendation may save you if it's on cooldown at the right time but there's no guarantees.
    Who cares? It could say chance on hit to increase spirit by 50, wouldn't change the fact that it has 57stam.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    And "oh shit" button to me is an ability or item use/proc that can be activated when you need it, commendation to me doesn't provide this.
    It provides 57stam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    I guess i'm slashing at my initial argument and agreeing that the commendation is less a crap trinket like I said it was and more a situational choice.
    No, its not situational, in t6 content you'd be wanting to equip this trinket far more often then not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    But counting on it to save you seems foolish to me (even though I know many of you will say it HAS saved you before).

    Forget the proc, 57stam saves you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slobash View Post
    You wouldn't plan to have a picnic on a day that's forecast for rain even though there's a strong chance the weather service got it wrong (as they're totally useless)

    If I was going on a picnic I'd equip double stam trinkets imo.

  19. #59
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    Wow, ya really got me there! I feel suitably admonished and will now go and find some green stam gear to make up for my obvious lack of stam. Did I say stam more than twice? No? STAM. Just in case I missed it. Thanks again for putting me in my place

  20. #60
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    I use this trinket mostly for the health that it gives, the dodge rating that comes without me having to do anything to activate it is just a bonus. I have an avoidance set, and EH set. and a bunch of other pre-sets on item rack that put me somewhere in-between for various situations. Agreeing with what has been said previously, this is just another tool at your disposal for various situations.

    I find it amazingly useful on hyjal trash for example, where I wear my best mix of effective health + spell damage to survive tanking 6 abominations + god knows what else beating on me and keep aoe aggro. I get into ardent defender range (below 35% health) quite often after a stun, and the avoidance that it procs goes a long way to prevent me from getting chain stunned during the abomination heavy waves.

    There are plenty of scenarios where this trinket and ardent defender won't prevent me from going splat, but there are also plenty of scenarios where it will. Really, I think thats all that can be asked/expected from any piece of tanking gear/talent.

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