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Thread: Another mongoose vs executioner thread...

  1. #1
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    Another mongoose vs executioner thread...

    Firstly, I've looked at the forums and read all the previous Executioner vs Mongoose threads out there, so don't bash me for making another thread about this. Unfortunately, the predicament I'm in looks to be uncommon on these boards, so I'll go ahead and post.

    I'm currently tanking with a Brutilizer with mongoose on it, and really thats the only thing I have. I mean i have a Syphon of the Nathreziem, but that's just for fun. My guild killed Brut this week for the first time (woot), and with that fight comes alot of tweaking to your threat rotation, so I'm starting to notice things about my threat that I haven't before.

    As all tanks should, I'm looking for little ways to improve my abilities wherever I can. Lately I've been looking to upgrade my TPS a little bit, mainly by picking up the Longblade (Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade - Item - World of Warcraft) from Kalecgos. Assuming this drops and I get it (I'm the only one who will bid, I'm sure), what enchant should I put on it?

    IMO, if I had it my way, I'd enchant the longblade with executioner, and pick up an unbreakable will from hyjal and put mongoose on it. That way, I would have the best threat weapon in the game with a threat enchant on it, and the best mitagation/avoidance weapon with an mitigation/avoidance enchant.

    Much to their respect, a few of my guildies are not as warm to the idea of putting executioner on a weapon as I am. I personally don't see it being that big of a deal to swich out weapons in the middle of fights. Eg, I think if I were to have both weapons on Brut, I would put on the longblade for the first ~2-3 minutes of the fight, then swap out. For kalecgos, I would use longblade downstairs, unbreakable will upstairs. For Illidan, if I was tanking the first flame I would use longblade, and if I was tanking the second I'd use unbreakable. If I'm tanking the pally on council, I would use longblade, if I tank the mob that heals and divine wraths (the name eludes me) I would use unbreakable will.

    Anyhow, you get the picture-Basically if my threat is getting pushed then I'll use a threat weapon. If me staying alive is more important than the threat I do (I know the cliche answer to this is that if youre dead you can't generate threat, but go with me here), then I'd use unbreakable.

    Is this idea of maximizing the stat on the weapon through the enchant corrent? Are there enough encounters to come where I need the best of both worlds?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opacita View Post
    Firstly, I've looked at the forums and read all the previous Executioner vs Mongoose threads out there, so don't bash me for making another thread about this. Unfortunately, the predicament I'm in looks to be uncommon on these boards, so I'll go ahead and post.

    I'm currently tanking with a Brutilizer with mongoose on it, and really thats the only thing I have. I mean i have a Syphon of the Nathreziem, but that's just for fun. My guild killed Brut this week for the first time (woot), and with that fight comes alot of tweaking to your threat rotation, so I'm starting to notice things about my threat that I haven't before.

    As all tanks should, I'm looking for little ways to improve my abilities wherever I can. Lately I've been looking to upgrade my TPS a little bit, mainly by picking up the Longblade (Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade - Item - World of Warcraft) from Kalecgos. Assuming this drops and I get it (I'm the only one who will bid, I'm sure), what enchant should I put on it?

    IMO, if I had it my way, I'd enchant the longblade with executioner, and pick up an unbreakable will from hyjal and put mongoose on it. That way, I would have the best threat weapon in the game with a threat enchant on it, and the best mitagation/avoidance weapon with an mitigation/avoidance enchant.

    Much to their respect, a few of my guildies are not as warm to the idea of putting executioner on a weapon as I am. I personally don't see it being that big of a deal to swich out weapons in the middle of fights. Eg, I think if I were to have both weapons on Brut, I would put on the longblade for the first ~2-3 minutes of the fight, then swap out. For kalecgos, I would use longblade downstairs, unbreakable will upstairs. For Illidan, if I was tanking the first flame I would use longblade, and if I was tanking the second I'd use unbreakable. If I'm tanking the pally on council, I would use longblade, if I tank the mob that heals and divine wraths (the name eludes me) I would use unbreakable will.

    Anyhow, you get the picture-Basically if my threat is getting pushed then I'll use a threat weapon. If me staying alive is more important than the threat I do (I know the cliche answer to this is that if youre dead you can't generate threat, but go with me here), then I'd use unbreakable.

    Is this idea of maximizing the stat on the weapon through the enchant corrent? Are there enough encounters to come where I need the best of both worlds?

    Thanks.
    You're quite right in my opinion. I may not be in a Sunwell guild but it doesn't take T6 to know to enchant a weapon to maximise its strengths. Let's think about it: would you prefer to have one great threat weapon and one great EH/avoidance weapon or one weapon that tries to do both and is great at neither?

    As for switching weapons, if your DPS won't be threat capped by you switching to an EH weapon after a few minutes, then what's the harm? It helps your healers out a little more, which is always good.
    Why use big words when a diminutive alternative will suffice?
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  3. #3
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    You don't tell your guildmates how to play, they don't tell you how to play.

    Executioner is superior threat, Mongoose is superior avoidance and average threat. If you have two weapons, and one has better survivability and one has better threat, put Exe on the threat weapon and mongoose on the survivability one. If you have a third weapon, put deathfrost on it; it has its uses (Fathom Lord priest tanking comes to mind; we just used it last night and it seemed to help).

    Switching weapons mid-fight isn't a big deal, so long as there's not such a crucial difference in your stats that it could mess with the healers; in that case, tell them beforehand, and then tell them when you're about to switch so they know.

    Lastly, ignore anyone who tells you that you should just use one weapon and swap gear around for threat; your weapon and to a lesser extent your shield are the two main sources of your threat, and when you need to up your threat the first changes you should consider making are those two.

  4. #4
    Yes. Executioner on DEL, Mongoose on Brut/UW.

    If any of these ever drop for me (sigh) that is what I will be doing.

  5. #5
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    Crusty Longblade ftw, executioner it and tell em that it's the new age thing to do =P j/k

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  6. #6
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    double post lolololol
    Last edited by Opacita; 07-02-2008 at 11:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    As were only killing brut, are there fights in sunwell where a longblade with executioner for pushing threat would be bad? perhapps because i need threat and to stay alive. the more i think about it, we can kill brut with me tanking with a mongoose'd brutalizer, is extra threat even needed? the only time I've heard people in guild talk about threat is during the first 30 or so seconds of the fight.

  8. #8
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    Felmyst and Twins have definite threat issues at points.
    "We actually talked today about adding an item level 300 shirt that did absolutely nothing but mess with mods that attempt to boil down players to gear scores. " -Ghostcrawler

  9. #9
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    The idea seems good, I am currently equipped with the Mallet of the Tides with an Executionner on it; I'm waiting for the Brutalizer (executioner, I'm an orc) and the Unbreakable Will (mongoose), and I'm ready to switch during the fight exactly as you stated: threat weapon in the beginning, then switch with the avoidance weapon.
    I'm doing the same dance with my shields, if needed.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Grakzul Slaughtbringer View Post
    The idea seems good, I am currently equipped with the Mallet of the Tides with an Executionner on it; I'm waiting for the Brutalizer (executioner, I'm an orc) and the Unbreakable Will (mongoose), and I'm ready to switch during the fight exactly as you stated: threat weapon in the beginning, then switch with the avoidance weapon.
    I'm doing the same dance with my shields, if needed.
    Brutalizer is alot better for survivability for an Orc then UBW. Get two of em and throw Ex on one and Mon on the other.

  11. #11
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    At best a good mitigation or avoidance weapon (Unbreakable Will in this case) is going to be a very miniscule contributor to your survivability (when compared to the differences b/w items of another slot, e.g. T6 gloves vs. Gauntlets of Enforcement), and at best the mongoose enchant is going to provide you with unpredictable and periodic increases in avoidance/mit. So, it seems to me that the clear choice for any tank is to gun for the longblade with executioner for almost any encounter in order to maximize the effectiveness of the weapon slot and to structure your armor pieces around 2 (or so) sets; one which prioritized survivability, and one which prioritizes threat. On fights such as Kalecgos I suppose if you really wanted to min/max as much as possible swapping weapons would be okay, but honestly aside from that I don't see much point in the exercise. Once you and your guildmates gain access to all of the gear in sunwell it's going to be abundantly obvious that there's no such thing as a high enough threat ceiling, so swapping weapons midfight will not be practical.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamani View Post
    Brutalizer is alot better for survivability for an Orc then UBW. Get two of em and throw Ex on one and Mon on the other.
    this isn't true, UBW is the best survival weapon in the game for any warrior
    Xav
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
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    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    this isn't true, UBW is the best survival weapon in the game for any warrior
    40 expertise rating is superior to 308 armor for survivability on an average boss (1.5 to 2 second swing timer) with parry haste.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamani View Post
    40 expertise rating is superior to 308 armor for survivability on an average boss (1.5 to 2 second swing timer) with parry haste.
    going to disagree, because the armor provides mitigation from all attacks the boss will make against you (that are physical), rather than just those caused from parries. also the expertise does nothing to prevent parries that other sources may cause for the boss, while the armor does. this is more relevant than you may think!
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  15. #15
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    well the blades / weapons being mentioned are still somewhat far to be achieved ( but not that far since we are starting T5 instances, you know those instances so im not going to mention lol).

    Im currently equipped with KD, and plan to get SE which only drops 1 time from the so many runs and to make things worst, 2 warriors and 1 pally. although i want the SE badly, still i dont mind passing it to the warrior, instead a noob pally just ninjad it lol... ok end of commercial

    i was thinking of putting executioner on KD and mongoose on SE (if i can get it again) and a side note, OT for 25 man and MT for other instances...

    any advice would be really appreciated

  16. #16
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    This like so many other things comes down to preferance. ie. what you like.

    Personally I like Mallet of the Tides (Human Warr) and Mongoose. For me its the best wepon period till Sunwell's Longblade.

    I like Mongoose beacuse you get a 3 for 1.

    1) Dodge
    2) Crit
    3) Armor

    Executioner only gives threat and I belive I do just fine in that dept. as is, so it loses.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    going to disagree, because the armor provides mitigation from all attacks the boss will make against you (that are physical), rather than just those caused from parries. also the expertise does nothing to prevent parries that other sources may cause for the boss, while the armor does. this is more relevant than you may think!
    I played around with numbers for expertise and calculated how much was needed to reach 1% damage reduction.

    On an average boss, 25(rounding due to the varying nature of expertise) expertise rating yielded 1% damage reduction.

    And expertise always reduces burst damage, whereas armor always takes a little bit off the top.

    That plus there isn't many fights where I'm willing to give 40 expertise rating worth of threat and damage reduction for 308 armor, not many pure survival fights.

    Also, expertise' usefulness increases as your attackers swings get slower. (The amount of Parry-hastes is determined by the attackers attack speed and applied to the attackees attack speed)

    So the only pure no threat all survival fight that comes to mind is Kalecgos while tanking the demon. (Not including Felmyst->Kil'Jaeden) But due to the fact that he swings once a week for about 3 kilotons of damage, stopping parry-haste is pretty damn effective.

  18. #18
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    I'm aware of all that, and it's why I gave further examples past Kalecgos
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  19. #19
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    bosses that drop t6 dont parry haste (i.e. kalec, brut, felmyst, mother, council, illidan, azgalor, archi), thus, expertise gives 0 damage reduction for those bosses.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opacita View Post
    bosses that drop t6 dont parry haste (i.e. kalec, brut, felmyst, mother, council, illidan, azgalor, archi), thus, expertise gives 0 damage reduction for those bosses.
    Where did you hear that the bosses that drop T6 pieces don't parry haste? I've never heard that. As far as I know, it's only Brutallus and Shahraz that don't parry-haste.
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

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