Tanks that only log in for 25mans
In our guild we have 5-8 geared tanks who can tank well yet will not run heroics/kz/za if their life depended on it and would rather spend time doing other stuff in game (aka circling shatt). And only show up for ssc/tk/gruuls etc
This doesnt help some of our lesser geared dps/heals get BOJ gear and speed our progression up somewhat.
We have put in guild note for tanks to "offer" to run dps/heals 1-2 heroics a day (ie the easy ones sp/mech etc) which take around an hour of their time.
Well this hasnt really changed their veiws.
tanking trivial content as a warrior burns me out faster than anything else. I wouldn't push tanks to do something they don't want to do or you find that they stop logging in or vanish to a different server. Find an alt or a holy pally/ resto druid that is more than excited to do some heroic/kara/za tanking.
If it's not a guild event and especially a progression event... let them fly around shat.
your "undergeared" players can Pug. and the tanks won't burn out.
btw imho pugging is great :0
a bad PuG makes you happy your in a decent guild .
and a good one might recruit a good player into your guild.
Stop doing 10 mans and heroics. Move on and stop recruiting undergeared nubs.
You are in the wrong here imo not your tanks
Your "geared tanks who can tank well" most likely got the gear and the experience in the first place by running the heck out all those instances with similarly geared parties. You remember...back when you couldn't just clear Kara twice and get an autoblocker. Heck, back when you probably couldn't clear Kara period, much less as a farming run.
Telling your tanks they need to do extra work to catch up all the new people you invited to fill your raiding ranks while the geared up dps and healers pvp or fly around shat chatting themselves is just a formula for needing to find "lesser geared" tanks to match the "lesser geared" dps/heals in your 25 mans as well.
I wonder if the OP asked the same question on say... Healer.com or DPS.org would he get the same replies?
I helped a whole 150+ guilds worth of people Onyxia attune then Kara attune. Some of them stayed, some left. It burnt me out. It made me angry - people seemed to think I owed them things just for being a tank. Tanks are not guild resources, they are people who are also trying to have fun.
Tanks can have many hobbies that they enjoy: fishing, cooking, questing, collecting pets, collecting event items, lurking, chatting to friends, guarding the farm, running flags, etc. Some tanks like to respec twice a week and do arena. They also need to do farming (for resist sets, bigger bags, enchants, pots etc), and make at least enough gold for repairs and consumables for the week. If they are tanking 25-mans then they already worked very hard to get their gear.
The less people nag tanks, the more likely they are to offer to help and not go hide on alts or lurk. If they know you, and you have had some good conversations with them, then even more likely. If you helped them with something (trying out ss spec in arena, bodyguard for fishing competition, getting something weird from ZG, etc) without immediately demanding help in return, then even more likely. Sometimes they just won't help - farming 5 more primal life for their nature set before the next 25-man may be what they want to do today.
You are always free to roll a tank for yourself and see what its like. :-)
P.S. If you drag them into a wipefest then at least offer to pay their repair bill, so they don't get zero items AND pay gold to help you.
Originally Posted by Treenaa
Blame Blizzard's dazzling philosophy of here's an instance, enjoy it for the next 8 months!
Honestly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
Originally Posted by ceffo
Tanks are not property, they are players.
On both my Warrior and Mage alt I have had to primarily gear myself. By this I mean my gear came from MY efforts.
Not only did I PuG 5 mans, heroics, pvp, and drop herbalism for engineering for the trink and helm, I also gathered up a bunch of strangers, lead and PuG'd Karazhan multiple times (before it was the new UBRS).
The point I am getting at is that your undergeared dps and healers ought to get their butts moving and get into those PuGs. I found about 30% of my past guilds raiding core within PuGs.
Also, that same past guild kept bugging me for runs in all the instances i needed no items or rep in, to the point that i would spec pvp, level my bro's alliance toon, and screw around on alts, just to avoid tanking 5 mans i didn't want to.
As what was stated before: Tanks are people, not property.
P.S. We have rage bars for a reason...
Tanks: We like it rough.
Imagine you're at the point where you won't even bring an alt to heroics or Karazhan because you're so sick of them over a year later. Now consider how well being told to "offer" your services to help new and undergeared recruits would sit with you.
Originally Posted by Ringthane
I don't think that tanks mind helping guildies, it's just that there is a level of depth for their charity. i'll go clean up a stream or work in a soup kitchen when I have free time; my level of devotion for helping sea otters and trout isn't at 14 hours a week.
new recruits are far less cute than sea otters.
all i got from this post was sea otters
Originally Posted by geros
Originally Posted by Rak
Originally Posted by Magnuss
Wait till the tanks get sick of running Gruul's/Mags even and won't log on unless you are t5 or better /tear.
P.S. The Otter is not crying, the Otter is simply cleaning itself, but it does look damn cute.
I'm basically at this burn out stage. My tank is fully geared for my instance level, I even have a fair amount of badge dps gear. I have geared up my alts to the point that they could fill in on raids. I hardly log into wow anymore i have 20k gold, craptons of primals & herbs -- there is NOTHING to do.
I'd like to gear up newbies but you see them come, you see them go, raid attendence is the suck and they leave after 2-3 T6 drops.
I'm going with get the alts to tank
Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma
In all fairness, this is not really a purely Blizzard thing. It's the fairly MMORPG-typic concept of leveling and (at 70) its logical translation into a serial progression endgame. And they did try to provide parallel instances at T5 and T6 so you wouldn't just be stuck doing the same thing all the time.
Originally Posted by Satrina
I burned out on Karazhan a lot faster than I burned out on heroics, since there was a much bigger variety to be had in the latter.
There's a lot of content out there. 69 levels worth of it go largely unused.
Yes. I am this way for 5 and the 10 mans now. My gear is above what is needed for the content we are doing. There is no reason for me to be in there except to help out folks. Which I don't mind doing. But not as constantly as it is seemed to be wanted by the guildmates. I also usually end up leading, which after 3 raid nights, 1 ZA run, and usually a Kara I just get tired.
My dream kara is walking in, asking if every one knows the instance then just chain pulling for the next 2-3 hours. No explanations. No details on the pulls. Just go go go. Had it once on a spur of the moment kara and was the best time in there I have ever had.
I think that is the part that gets tanks down. Having the explain the same instance and each of the pulls over and over and over again. I am lucky in that we have two tanks that need badges and are picking up the slack for me and don't have the burn out.
Tanking... when everyone else in the raid whines about the 5g worth of reagents they have to buy to last the whole run, we cringe at the 5g repair bill - per death! - that we have to pay each time the same dps that dragged us out in the first place decides to show off and ends up wiping the group...
When it's good enough for a mage to just have a single spell (polymorph), nevermind whether or not he knows how to use it properly, while a tank has to justify his gear, spec, and stats to a group leader that probably doesn't even understand why we try to get 490 defense in the first place...
When tanks understand that the fundamental reason for a supposed 'tank shortage' isn't that there aren't enough people that would be willing to do it, but that you need a 3:1 ratio of dps to tanks in the first place, so it's actually easier to get into groups as dps than to try to compete for the few coveted tank spots...
... Then it's no wonder tanks look back at the trail of tears it took to get to the point they're at and pass on old stuff. Guild loyalty has to go both ways.