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Thread: Different rotation for warrior prot

  1. #1
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    Different rotation for warrior prot

    Hi there,

    I've been hearing from some people about this video from Kungen, where he does 2k TPS against Brutallus.

    I didn't watch the video in his pov to see what rotation he was doing, but I saw some video with a hunter or another dps (can't remember) with Omen opened and there it was, 2k threat. Not during the whole fight, but for most of the beginning at least.

    Some friends I know have told me that they watched a video in his PoV where he is using a different rotation:

    he just spams heroic strike and only uses shield slam and revenge. Devastate is only used to renew sunder on the mob (after the first 5 stacks of course)

    I know, it doesn't make any sense, since Dev is on the gc and hs is based on your swing timer so you can use both. And the number, 2k threat seems too high for even to believe a rotation without devastate.

    Some have told me that they used this, and their threat indeed increased, from 1-1.1 to 1.5 threat (though none I've seen either in action or in wws)

    I've come here with the intent of asking some people to help me test this.

    I honestly don't understand the reason for this. If anyone has tested this or can come with a better answer to this, I'd appreciate it

  2. #2
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    probably all speculative bullshit.

    If you're just spamming HS, that means you have 2 GCD's that aren't getting used. How could ignoring devastate, HELP your tps, squeezing in those 2 devastates INTO the 2 Gcd's will boost your tps, guaranteed. there's no mathematical logic to not devastating to help your threat. It's bs imo.

    And if you see 2k threat on Omen, that means he's only putting out like 1.4 or 1.5, omen only relies on the last 10 attacks or so and divides it by the time he's been sitting there, that's why it looks like he has so much threat because if he's skipping devastates, his last 10 attacks will look something like: SS, rev, hs, hs, SS, rev, hs, hs, SS, rev

    with ss and rev being the single highest threat moves it'll show up much higher than if the last 10 moves looked something like:
    SS, rev, hs, dev, hs, dev, SS, rev, dev, hs

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  3. #3
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    You can kinda cheat omen and see a huge initial threat spike if you start off by prepping a heroic strike then hitting SS as your first attack - I think you may need 2 pts in bloodrage if you start with zero rage.

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    I imagine it's possible, but only under some very stringent circumstances.

    1) You'd have to have a very very fast swing timer, one that would allow you to do more Heroic Strikes than Devestates in the same amount of time to make up for the threat difference. Since HS doesn't use a GCD like Devestate does, it might be possible with a really fast dagger and some haste.

    2) You'd have to be generating almost all your rage from damage taken, and it would have to be enough to do HS spam, SS, and Revenge, but not enough to do HS spam, SS, Revenge and Devestates. That's a fairly small margin, too.

    Theoretically, I wouldn't be surprised if such a situation can exist.

    However, I agree with Kazeyonoma. Realistically speaking, there is no reason that using up two extra GCDs for Devestate is going to lower your DPS.

    I doubt I will ever use HS over Devestate nor do I personally know someone that would. Who knows, maybe someone out there figured out something and does. Go with works - I'll stick with Devestate.
    Last edited by Kininye; 06-25-2008 at 11:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faitas View Post
    I didn't watch the video in his pov to see what rotation he was doing, but I saw some video with a hunter or another dps (can't remember) with Omen opened and there it was, 2k threat. Not during the whole fight, but for most of the beginning at least.
    I think your answer is right there, in the POV from the movie: watch when that hunter uses misdirection, count how many other hunters are in the raid, and figure if one fires off MD every 10 seconds, you may have a very clear gauge of where that huge threat lead is coming from. Logically, they all dump it on the first tank as soon as the previous MD fades. With a ~40 second window where the leadoff guy is tanking, three hunters covers "most of the beginning" fairly effectively. Even with no crits from the hunter, you're looking at probably ~4k damage added, which goes up to ~6k threat with defensive stance. In a 10 sec window, that's going to show up in Omen as 600 TPS from the hunter rotation alone.

    -Splug

    EDIT: I'm not 100% certain whose threat modifiers are used for misdirection, but I've heard both the hunter's (if he has salv) and the tank's (ie- def stance) are factored into the Omen calculation.
    Last edited by Splug; 06-25-2008 at 11:28 AM.

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    Thanks for all the replys

    I'm going to find a way to download the video and see if this is true (on his pov, to check for MDs)

  7. #7
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    The only possible reason you would not use GCD abilities while spamming HS is because you're rage starved and prioritizing HS over Devastate. On Brutallus, however, you aren't rage starved. Kungen has been known to use imperfect rotations because he's busy overseeing the entire raid while he's tanking.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    [
    And if you see 2k threat on Omen, that means he's only putting out like 1.4 or 1.5, omen only relies on the last 10 attacks or so and divides it by the time he's been sitting there, that's why it looks like he has so much threat because if he's skipping devastates, his last 10 attacks will look something like: SS, rev, hs, hs, SS, rev, hs, hs, SS, rev

    with ss and rev being the single highest threat moves it'll show up much higher than if the last 10 moves looked something like:
    SS, rev, hs, dev, hs, dev, SS, rev, dev, hs
    do you have a source for that? I mean, how Omen calculates the threat?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    The only possible reason you would not use GCD abilities while spamming HS is because you're rage starved and prioritizing HS over Devastate. On Brutallus, however, you aren't rage starved. Kungen has been known to use imperfect rotations because he's busy overseeing the entire raid while he's tanking.
    then he's bad.

  10. #10
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    Personally no, I've heard it from EJ people and from a few better mathcrafters than I here on the site. That's why Omen's TPS spikes back and forth so much. It can't possibly continuously add threat over the course of the fight and then divide by duration of the fight. That's essentially what wws parsers do.

    What omen instead does is take a short time period between attacks, and then divide by the time spent between them.

    I think the exact way it worked was it would record the last 10 attacks, and add up their threat, and then divide by the time between the first attack and the last attack.

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  11. #11
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    This is a terrible thread.

    Omen is a terrible tool to judge sustained, or even accurate TPS figures from. It takes into account misdirect, crits, and burst damage, in a very small sample period, making the listed "Threat per second" be wildly inaccurate when compared to your ending threat per second taking into account the whole fight duration.

    If Kungen was actually not using devastate except to refresh Sunder, he's terrible. I have no real interest in watching the video, since it's a moot point.

    The maximum threat rotation is SS-Rev-Dev-Dev, while permanently queuing heroic strike. This requires near-infinite rage, and thus a situation like brutallus. Period.

    The only exceptions to this are when your melee/'dps' stats are VERY high and your devastates outperform your revenges in threat, and at a certain point could outperform your shield slams too. This doesn't really count and certainly won't be the case on Brutallus, though.
    Last edited by Xav; 06-26-2008 at 09:40 AM. Reason: just wanted to note that i intentionally overused the word 'terrible'!
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    Exactly what Xav said.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    Kungen has been known to use imperfect rotations because he's busy overseeing the entire raid while he's tanking.
    It happens to me :/ my rotations have not been perfect in the past as I am the raid leader as well. I have drafted in some help for general raid leading and this enables me to better manage my rotation.

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