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Thread: TankingTips.com - Podcast #5: The Pizza is a Lie

  1. #1
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    TankingTips.com - Podcast #5: The Pizza is a Lie


    Direct Download For This Podcast

    Topics:
    * Druids and Paladins
    * The V Key
    * Tunnel Vision
    * Hunter Traps
    * The Healer to bring to your 5 man
    * And More!

  2. #2
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    Oh, Melvin...
    "We actually talked today about adding an item level 300 shirt that did absolutely nothing but mess with mods that attempt to boil down players to gear scores. " -Ghostcrawler

  3. #3
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    LOL...much <3 to you melvin.

    atleast you know now, eh?

  4. #4
    Love your podcasts Vene. This was your best one yet imo!

  5. #5
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    Epic ending

  6. #6
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    NIce job!
    What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? Buddha

  7. #7
    Great job of perpetuating the whole "What class is better for tanking?" argument.

    Can't say I got past the Paladin/Druid vs Warrior conversation where "a warrior can tank every fight" and Paladin/Druids have "peaks and valleys".

    Disappointing podcast to listen to especially at tankspot.com.

    If I wanted to hear that kind of talk without backing it up, I could just read the scinitllating conversation on the Trade Channel in Ironforge.

  8. #8
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    Yeah, if you're going to admit that you pretty much don't know anything about paladin tanks then its probably best not to discuss the topic of what class is better for tanking.

  9. #9
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    I'll admit that portion of the podcast wasn't my finest sounding 5 minutes. Still getting used to the gig and it happens. I walked into a loaded topic not super prepared. I like to just wing it. I enjoy that aspect of it and I'm not afraid to be wrong. I'm doing it to educate and to entertain. That being said, what was so wrong with basically saying warriors can do everything good whereas druids and paladins do somethings better, somethings worse and somethings about the same? True, I didn't back it up, but if it's true... should I have to? It really feels like you guys are mad because I told the truth. How is that statement grossly incorrect?

    My podcast and my site are and always will be focused towards warrior tanking. So, I'm afraid that if you are a paladin the harsh reality is that I'm simply not speaking to you. It's not that I don't value your class. I really do, but you have to understand, my audience doesn't really care about paladins. They're warriors. They want to know how all this stuff relates to them.

    My objective of that portion of the podcast was to make Warriors not feel like they are getting replaced by Paladins and Druids. The reality is that Druids and especially Paladins grossly outgearing content and running groups through are making a lot of Warriors feel like we're actually the ones that are situational only. This simply is not true.

    I want Warriors to believe in Warriors. I'm a huge advocate for confidence and that's why my podcast is the way it is and why my site is the way it is. I'll never be that Warrior on the forums QQing about how Warriors need buffs, ever even if we do. I'll be the one doing everything he can to be the best Warrior Tank I can be with the tools the game gives us and passing on as much of that information to other warriors as I can.

    So while fair is fair, I did butcher that portion, but at the same time just remember, it's a warrior podcast and while it's going to do it's best not misinform anyone, it's also going to always have a distinct bias. The agenda will always be to promote and better Warrior tanking.

    All that long winded stuff being said, criticism always welcome although I'd appreciate it if it was constructive

  10. #10
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    Lies, joana hates you and wants to eat your soul.

    I know, he ate mine =(

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  11. #11
    One of the bullet points listed for the podcast was/is "Druids and Paladins". I suppose it is my fault thinking by listing that there equated to someone actually contributing to the subject but I suppose "Druids and Paladins" could mean "Druids and Paladins - A surface level discussion regarding why tehy R teh 5uCk and warriors roxxorz."

    Here's some constructive criticism; know what you're talking about before you sit down to start a podcast.

    True, I didn't back it up, but if it's true... should I have to? It really feels like you guys are mad because I told the truth. How is that statement grossly incorrect?

    Please don't make the mistake of thinking that my irritation is caused by your "truth". Bullshit can be JUST as irritating and damaging as "the truth".

    Your brazen defense consisting of "Yeah, I was wrong but screw it. This is for warriors and no one else so sorry about your luck." is truly heart-warming.

    Up until your podcast I thought this site was spectacular. Post-podcast I decided that I'd simply forget about the podcasts and focus on the information available on the boards.

    After reading this response...I thoroughly regret being a sponsor of this site.

    I have no problem with Warrior Tanks. Nor am I insecure about playing a Paladin Tank. I get irritated when a respected source of information spews out garbage.

    Best of luck.

    S.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddygamebot View Post
    I get irritated when a respected source of information spews out garbage.
    Excuse me?
    Garbage?
    What exactly was garbage?
    Perhaps you took offense to the comment 'there are certain rolls that druids and paladins do better than us'
    lol
    I guess it was
    'paladins in my experience, I don't see a lot of fights where they're better MT's than us'

    And then he goes on to talk about demo shout, and thunder clap. He doesn't say Paladins are bad. Doesn't say they're worse that warrior tanks. He just says they're not better in a standard single mob tank situation. So what's wrong with that? Demo and TC are pretty solid, and beyond that, there's not a lot of difference between the two classes on a single mob. In most cases, they'll both do fine.

    He didn't say
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddygamebot View Post
    Druids and Paladins - A surface level discussion regarding why tehy R teh 5uCk and warriors roxxorz
    He listed advantages of paladins (aoe threat) and druids (physical mitigation)

    He expressed an opinion. Seemed to me that his message was that all tanks have advantages. Especially seeing as how he's a raid leader that uses all three tank classes in his raids.

    Let's not get carried away just because someone doesn't mention every possible connotation, variation, or detail in an informal discussion. Can we not at least give the guy the benefit of the doubt, as a respected author and contributor to the community, that his intent is not to denigrate other classes?

    Really?

    That's the first thing that comes to mind to some of you, is that Venny is disrespecting the other tanks? With out knowing him, or his intent? He mentioned a few advantages and disadvantages to each of the classes, with out going into a full thesis. To automatically assume his message is intended to be disrespectful is ridiculous. To see disrespect, listen further into the podcast, to where he talks about hunters =P. And then realize that he's joking, and teasing the hunters in his guild.

    Relax a little, and try not to assume that someone's intent is to be disrespectful, when they're just having an informal conversation. There's a heck of a lot more blatant disregard shown to Venny in the previous post than what ever nonexistent disrespect you've imagined that Venny has towards druids and paladins.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joanadark View Post
    In 99% of the raid content that matters, TC and Demo are applied by a DPS warrior anyway, even if it's a warrior tanking.
    I've done my share of both applying TC while DPSing for a pally / druid, and tanking, and I wouldn't want a DPS warrior to have to keep it up for a warrior tank. It costs the tank a lot less rage, and a lot less time, that probably isn't worth it in most situations. Demo shout should be kept up by a DPS warrior however.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddygamebot View Post
    One of the bullet points listed for the podcast was/is "Druids and Paladins". I suppose it is my fault thinking by listing that there equated to someone actually contributing to the subject but I suppose "Druids and Paladins" could mean "Druids and Paladins - A surface level discussion regarding why tehy R teh 5uCk and warriors roxxorz."

    Here's some constructive criticism; know what you're talking about before you sit down to start a podcast.

    True, I didn't back it up, but if it's true... should I have to? It really feels like you guys are mad because I told the truth. How is that statement grossly incorrect?

    Please don't make the mistake of thinking that my irritation is caused by your "truth". Bullshit can be JUST as irritating and damaging as "the truth".

    Your brazen defense consisting of "Yeah, I was wrong but screw it. This is for warriors and no one else so sorry about your luck." is truly heart-warming.

    Up until your podcast I thought this site was spectacular. Post-podcast I decided that I'd simply forget about the podcasts and focus on the information available on the boards.

    After reading this response...I thoroughly regret being a sponsor of this site.

    I have no problem with Warrior Tanks. Nor am I insecure about playing a Paladin Tank. I get irritated when a respected source of information spews out garbage.

    Best of luck.

    S.
    I apologize that you feel this way towards our site. Your contributions are greatly appreciated as are everyones. Veneretio made this podcast to voice his opinion, and maybe that got misconstrued somewhere but I assure you that he is not flaming or attacking paladin/druid tanks. I am sincerely apologetic if you feel that this came off in what you're saying but he has stated already that he really focuses on warrior tanking, and that for the most part he likes to poke fun (namely the hunters in his guild ;P). You also have to keep in mind that veneretio is not part of 'staff', he is a contributing member who has aided in the sites upbringing. If you feel that his opinion in a podcast warrants you to regret helping this site, or all of the information that has come from this site, then I have nothing more to say.

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  15. #15
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    Veneretio is a guest who I've asked to present his podcasts on our forums. I appreciate him doing so, and I imagine this has benefited both his site and ours to bring this viewpoint on board.

    While I understand the concerns, I don't sympathize. The number of times WoW developers have made asinine comments about tanking classes sets up a good example: Would it be wrong if we accepted a developer interview on our site, regardless of the overall benefit, because the guy says something like Paladins are intended to be AOE tanks? (With no offense intended, a large number of Paladins were vocally upset by this comment in the Blizzard podcast, even though it did not disclude Paladins from being good single-target tanks as well)

    The obvious counter is that Veneretio is not a developer, he's a Warrior tank. The flip side is that Veneretio is responsible for a lot of the development of TankSpot; he has given me ideas and advice every step of the way. His contribution to the community is frankly more important to our community -- and to all tanks -- than that of any Blizzard employee. Yes, he's a Warrior, so no, he might not say something you like if you're a Paladin or Druid. If you've spent any time at TankingTips.com or reading our own forums, you'd have already known this. Then again, he responded in this thread to the concerns.

    Podcasts are 100% optional additions to the site. They are not represented as guides or articles. That's what our Library and T&A forums are for.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddygamebot View Post
    This isn't a matter of "not liking what he said". I can listen to dozens of podcasts and disagree with what is said. That's one of the reason for listening to podcasts. To be educated. To be entertained. To be challenged regarding your point of view.

    There was no challenge in this.

    There was simply a blanket statement of "paladins and druids can do very well at some things and warriors do well at everything" and then some well-timed backpedaling.

    If he feels that way, take the time to talk about a couple fights that warrior tanks really shine in and paladin and druid tanks do not. Conversely, speak about fights where paladins and druids do well but warriors struggle and then theorize what a warrior could do or try to do to increase their performance. If he loves warrior tanks as much as he says he does, why not give them some advice as opposed to simply saying that warrior tanks don't need to worry because they will always be needed.

    But there was none of that.

    Although more articulate, it really was little more than Trade Channel chatter that you are bombarded with when you're unfortunate enough to be in Ironforge or Stormwind.

    I would have loved to have heard him speak about what battles a paladin or druid tank shouldn't be tanking and list the reasons because then I could have learned from it and improve upon my processes and gameplay and maybe open some eyes regarding what a Paladin or Druid tank can do.

    I don't understand your developer example. I don't care about the devs at Blizzard. They are not the ones that have progressed tanking to the science/artform/hobby that it currently is today. It's groundroots communities like this that move tanking forward and are infinitely more informative than anything Blizzard has ever provided. I don't expect great things from Blizzard in the ways of comments or how "employee X" thinks what the best class is.

    I DO expect solid contributions from a site called "tankspot.com" and I thought that it would be a place free of the constant pissing on one another's shoes regarding who's better. Did his podcast contribute to that? Yep. Not blatantly so, but it did.

    What DID irritate me was his response. "It was for warriors from a warrior so sorry you didn't like it but tough." (paraphrased of course)

    I have been to tankingtips.com. Early on when I first started tanking but upon seeing that it was generally oriented towards warrior tanks, I moved on. No harm, no foul. There were other places to research and obtain information from. If you are going to throw a one-dimensional podcast up on your main page, then say so. Then when you are listening to it, you can take it for what it is. A person with warrior-tank experience speaking to other warrior-tanks. In my case; it's not necessary because if I see Veneretio's name attached to it, now I'll know what to expect.

    The cat might have just had a bad day and a bad podcast. That's fine. Everyone is entitled to that. I didn't think he was flaming paladin or druid tanks. I thought the discussion regarding them was surface-level at best and very similar to what the mediocre-majority has to say on Blizzard's forums.

    The real issue for me was him coming back later and saying what he did but moreso, HOW he said it.

    It's garbage.

    Bleh...this was far longer than it needed to be. Anwyay...best of luck.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavtor View Post
    Excuse me?
    There's a heck of a lot more blatant disregard shown to Venny in the previous post than what ever nonexistent disrespect you've imagined that Venny has towards druids and paladins.

    "Venny" is a big boy. I'm sure he can handle it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddygamebot View Post
    "Venny" is a big boy. I'm sure he can handle it.
    Sure he can. Doesn't mean I can't defend a friend from someone who's looking for more slander than what exists.

    If he loves warrior tanks as much as he says he does, why not give them some advice as opposed to simply saying that warrior tanks don't need to worry because they will always be needed.

    But there was none of that.
    Er... there's a whole podcast, and website devoted to his advise. You're trying way to hard to express what ever bad vibe you got from the cast. Sure, it was a short, casual discussion, and not a thesis. It wasn't a bad day, or a bad podcast. Apparently it just wasn't what you were looking to hear.

  19. #19
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    What vene said, was his opinion, he stated what he said from a warriors point of view. There is no further reason for us to defend or attack him in this manner anymore. He knows what he did, and you guys can take it for whatever face value you want. I'm ending this now.

    Closed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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