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Thread: Gear Set, too much damage taken?

  1. #1

    Gear Set, too much damage taken?

    In my everyday tanking set I have the following stats (bear in mind i built this set for max hp/threat, while trying to minimize burst dmg). This is NOT an avoidance set.

    Unbuffed:

    Defenses
    Health: 16.5k
    Armor: 17451
    Defense: 511
    Dodge: 19.14%
    Parry: 17.71%
    Block Rating: 23.82%
    Block Value: stops 358dmg

    Melee
    AP: 560 (a little bit on the weapon helps a bit)
    Hit: 79
    Crit: 11.41%
    Expertise: 44 (132 expertise rating+5skill for human)
    Haste: 18

    Executioner on my main set weapon
    Mongoose on TSE avoidance weapon

    Recently, my tanking stats have been questioned and turned down, saying I 'rely too much upon tanking guides/conversions.' The reality of what they are saying is that I shouldn't focus on Expertise, hit, EH, but moreso on avoidance because I'm "taking too much damage." And not only that but "too much burst damage" speculatively by my healers.

    I would consider myself a very solid tank who tries to min/max at every chance I get. Using avoidance sets for bosses that don't require so much threat (HKM being the most obvious), i keep shield block up on bosses that crush, keep Imp TC and demo shout always on bosses, use ironshield pots on progression.

    Take a look at the Zul'jin fight that was "rough on the healers". WWS Report. Notice I do take a few crushings-- must have burned through the shield block charges.

    I do have the resources to regem and regear-- and if i don't, i'll get them.

    Am I doing anything wrong specifically with gearing? How can I improve?
    Last edited by Hollowskin; 05-30-2008 at 08:35 PM.
    80 Prot Warrior | 80 Feral/Resto Druid | 80 Enhancement Shaman
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    the people talking to you are full of it

    I've tanked plenty of t5 content and don't have problems even though i have less avoidance than you. When I need to stack more avoidance I can put it up to 51% total avoidance, but I rarely find stuff that needs that much. You're HP is solid, armor is pretty good, and the guys telling you otherwise are just retarded, they're making assumptions that "guides" aren't right when in fact they have more basis for truth than their "healers' speculation".

    I think your best bet is just to find a guild that understands tanking better. Even if you regemmed for this guild, and geared yourself the way they wanted you to, You'd be miserable because they'd be telling you how to play your class when you're the one who's done the research.

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  3. #3
    Thanks for your input there Kazeyonoma. It rests some of my insecurities that were arisen in regards to tanking stats. Normally, I would pick up and leave for a t6 progression guild, I could get in and through content quickly.

    However, I'm an officer and a leader of my current guild with my best friend IRL whom both of us started the guild. I'm a raid leader, as well as a respected tank. Not as easy as up and leaving for me.

    The speculation was from a newer healer, who has main tanked progression in BT; doesn't believe in stacking expertise since he swithed chars before 2.4 badge loot etc. So, he does have experience with tanking and I can not outright dismiss his criticisms. Normally, I would laugh at such a feeble insult by a healer that believes I'm not uncrushable with shield block[ability] because i don't have 25% shield block[stat]. o.O

    Is there any reason for me to change stats around?
    Last edited by Hollowskin; 05-30-2008 at 09:23 PM.
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  4. #4
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    I have about the same stats as you, maybe 1-2% more avoidance.

    The damage I take is just fine in ZA since you get 20-21k hp non flasked in a raid, only time I really take a lot of burst is when people take forever and I get hit too often by 5-6k flames in p5(damn pugs), which your avoidance doesnt help.

  5. #5
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    Honestly you should be fine given what your raiding and what you got. Sounds like qq from a healer who got babied. And im speaking from both ends of the stick on that one. However if avoidance is a problem perhaps get some gear to switch out for more avoidance such as a dodge set. *but yes i know dodge is bad for zuljin*

  6. #6
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    G'day first post on tank spot for me. Just want to say as I've played a healer to endgame that this "healer" who's giving you a bit of grief has no idea what he's talking about. It's about his skill as a healer. I've noticed when I'm tanking (which I'm very new to), if I don't have HOT's on me I get smashed around. HOT's are fantastic to minimise the amount of smaller heals that a healer needs to do. They also ensure that when you do get hit hard the HP loss is minimised due to the HOT ticking away. When you are tanking make sure your buff bar is stacked with HOT's. This is just my opinion and please let me know if anyone thinks different.

    Cheers,
    Necksnapper

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulianLeitch View Post
    G'day first post on tank spot for me. Just want to say as I've played a healer to endgame that this "healer" who's giving you a bit of grief has no idea what he's talking about. It's about his skill as a healer. I've noticed when I'm tanking (which I'm very new to), if I don't have HOT's on me I get smashed around. HOT's are fantastic to minimise the amount of smaller heals that a healer needs to do. They also ensure that when you do get hit hard the HP loss is minimised due to the HOT ticking away. When you are tanking make sure your buff bar is stacked with HOT's. This is just my opinion and please let me know if anyone thinks different.

    Cheers,
    Necksnapper
    Fully agree therer, with big heals to catch burst. Not to be offtopic here but it sounds like a healer issue to me. The only time ive ever complained about a tank screwup was when our mt turned his back to alar for some stupid reason on a platform

  8. #8
    Well your threat stats are high, but that is because of Blizzard's horrible itemization. Switch the Shard for Moroes' and Akilzon's for KD/MotT if you have it.

    At your gear level you won't be finding many people who push your threat cap. Threat gear exists to help you survive the bitching from T6 Warlocks.

    But aside from that, the people you are playing with are horrible.

    Recently, my tanking stats have been questioned and turned down, saying I 'rely too much upon tanking guides/conversions.'
    Anybody who believes their intuition about something is better then another persons studying, calculations and work on the subject is just an idiot. Whether it is in WoW or any other real life activity.

  9. #9
    I am going to go out on a limb and believe you are in a small guild doing Kara, ZA and possibly Gruul's. (I make this leap of faith based on the gear you have and the lack of SSC/TK gear. So if I am wrong, please forgive me.)

    That being said...

    Trinkets:
    The [item]Shard of Contempt[/item] is a great piece for both threat and mitigation. However, at the level of content you are currently in, there is no reason to close in on the parry cap. I can count on one hand the number of bosses in T5 and T6 content that I have ever worried about a parry instagib (Morogrim, Najentus, Gorefiend, and formerly Mother Sharaz). The reality is that there is no real reason to push Expertise to the parry cap when you are at your level of avoidance. You are going to see a bigger survivability increase by using [item]Moroes' Lucky Pocketwatch[/item] (or a similar avoidance trinket).

    You may argue that its more threat. Well the small increase in threat that this gives you is not worth it when you can avoid more incoming damage.

    Weapon:
    The talonblade is a great tanking weapon. Don't let anyone tell you its not. However, while I am not a number cruncher. You may actually be better served with [item]Quickening Blade of the Prince[/item]. The amount of haste on the talonblade is minimal, while the armor penetration on the sword, should more than make up for its deficiency in white dps numbers. All that being said [item]King's Defender[/item] would also serve you quite well with its balanced mitigation, eh and threat stats in one package.

    Rings
    Your healers are demanding more avoidance... Well you seem to be drowning in badges by the looks of your all epic gems. Replace your [item]Shermanar Great-Ring[/item] with [item]Ring of the Stalwart Protector[/item]. You will lose some parry and block in the deal, but you will come out in the green in all other stats by a decent % making this upgrade more than worth the badges.

    Shoulders
    A word about SBV... its a very nice thing, but do not give it up for all other things. I tanked well into Hyjal and BT with T4. [item]Warbringer Shoulderguards[/item] are a great piece of avoidance gear that you could swap in and lose a very minimal amount of TPS gear. This is purely situational, but still a great swap for some fights.

    Finally... I have to ask you if your DPS is even close to your threat ceiling. I will be blunt here. I realize with more and more DPS in the new 2.4 badge gear themselves it is easier for them to reach the ceiling. You still have to live, it may be nice for your DPS to not hit the ceiling as quick, but if you are dying its meaningless if they hit it 30 seconds in, or 5 minutes in, you won't win the battle if you are dead.

    All that being said, its a game, you want to gear your way to try and maximize your TPS as much as you can. Do not let anyone let alone me tell you what to do. The info I have spit out and all that is on this site is a "guide" for you to go by, not what you have to do.

    Merely suggestions.

  10. #10
    Well, I wasn't expecting this many returns and I'm thankful from the responders' support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamani View Post
    At your gear level you won't be finding many people who push your threat cap.
    This incite proved very useful. I'll probably end up switching some threat gear out for the time being (or at least until people start catching up to my threat).

    I do have KD with exec, swapped it out for Talonblade-- which now has earned it's keep in my execution spam set. The moroe's trinket is a myth imo. Keeps dodging my bloody paws-- scared of my wrath I'd assume. Ancient Aqir Artifact will drop.. eventually. I'll pop one of those on once I get them though.

    Appreciate all of the input!
    80 Prot Warrior | 80 Feral/Resto Druid | 80 Enhancement Shaman
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  11. #11
    jericho:

    A lot of information in there. Aye, I'm in a newer guild, formed about 2 months ago, downed a few bosses in t5 but nothing noticeable atm.

    Trinkets: Still waiting on an avoidance trinket to drop, ACK! The myths continue... ^_^

    Weapon: Waiting for the Mallet of the Tides to drop but until then I swapped back to King's Defender (was a hairline decision to use Talonblade, I have QBotP in the bank but it seems along the same lines as Talonblade)

    Rings: Aye I definitely agree here, switching to the Badge ring on Wed after the weekly Kara run- just finished up epic gemming my gear but probably should have gotton all the items 1st! I'll make minor changes and see how it works out. Thanks again!

    Shoulders: I may take ya up on this one. For me, I've looked at T4 as a sidegrade, although, looking again they are high avoidance, rivaling t5. I'll either try getting these or the T5 shoulders which are a clear upgrade (and which I could make use of the set bonus when another piece arrives).

    In response, DPS usually doesn't touch my threat ceiling. They have gotton into some bad habits from the outstanding threat though. Such as some max badge loot/ZA geared locks/epic gem (similar to me) don't bother Soul Shattering, testing their luck popping trinkets and burning as soon as i touch a mob.

    However, death isn't a problem either. If we have ever wiped on an encounter, I can honestly say, it is a very rare situation that my death was a direct cause. Indirectly, trying to keep me up when DPS needs a heal-- that's a fine line to call.

    Maybe it would be wise, atleast for normal boss encounters (not extremely threat sensitive), to switch the normal set to an oriented EH/Avoidance instead of EH/Threat.
    Last edited by Hollowskin; 06-02-2008 at 02:49 AM.
    80 Prot Warrior | 80 Feral/Resto Druid | 80 Enhancement Shaman
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    73
    Switching to avoidance because of "bursts" is nonsense. I mean, even with higher avoidance, these same bursts will still be here.
    So first, if you want to give up some threat, trade it for EH first, especially in instances like ZA.

    Secondly, in your ZJ WWS, you took 10 crushes, 7 of them that you could have avoided. Maybe you've took some on purpose, but you've waited 10 seconds of fight and 3 crushes before your first shield block that's a lot.

    I would say: choose your gear not only depending on the fight, but on your party too, even if it's a dps fight, if nobody can reach 50% of your threat, then you took too much threat gear.
    Remember that avoidance is not the only way to survive, 366 svb is kind of low, and spikes damage mainly come from crushes.. you don't need much more avoidance than what you have for things like ZA.

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