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Thread: Mah Defense! But it seems to be working...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    317
    While you're "fine" right now, you won't be once you start to hit higher content. Even if you don't do 25man raids at all, ZA will splatter you all over troll city with that kind of setup. There's a lot of burst damage in ZA and not all of it is dodge/parryable. If you don't believe me, take a walk in heroic Magister's Terrace and see how well your avoidance stacks up. Even in Kara, Prince will be a cakewalk because he simply can't hit you, but Nightbane will eat you alive.

    I don't know who your DPSers are, but if you've stacked that much avoidance and low hit/expertise/block value, along with 12.5k unbuffed hp, you're giving your raid an unnecessary workout. Try reversing it and let them challenge you for once. Instead of being healing reactively, challenge your healers to manage their mana and heal a steady stream of predictable damage. Instead of watching Omen, challenge your DPS to higher and higher levels of raid DPS. It will make it much less of a shock to transition to ZA.

    Bear in mind, gear doesn't come overnight. What works now will not work in a later raid instance. This is not about being conformist or nonconformist, this is about the known mechanics of raid tanking and you don't seem to be challenging those.

    Tanking isn't about blindly making a number go as high as you can. Gear-wise, how good a tank you are cannot be measured with a single stat. I learned this when doing research for tanking SSC. I am technically at a level of Effective Health to start Sunwell (no, I'm nowhere near that level of progression), but my avoidance in boss mitigation set fails even the Morogrim checkpoint. Balance out your gear, you, your healers and your DPSers will not regret it.
    Last edited by Finelle; 05-13-2008 at 11:12 AM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Baltimore/DC area
    Posts
    1,380
    High defense/avoidance is great for being an off-tank, and it's great for heroics (provided your DPS doesn't get frustrated at your threat generation).

    You'll probably survive just fine, too, but it may take 50% longer for your raid to kill them while you're tanking.

    Will it work? I bet it would. I bet you could tank prince with that gear, too...or at least, he won't kill you due to his normal damage. Wipes would be because someone else was above you in threat (and you get enfeebled), or because the fight took so long that infernals finally eat your raid.

    However, you would not be the best tank to take, because I'd have to agree that your threat wouldn't be that great (a lack of threat stats, and rage starvation on most bosses).

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    286
    As an OT avoidance is kinda useless since most of the time you aren't getting hit anyway. I'd rather a warrior OT had a solid threat set then an avoidance set.

    New raid warrior tanks should focus first on a good EH set, work on a prot dps set (not quite the same as fury) at the same time and then once they have a good EH set they can work on maxing threat.

    If I just did heroics I'd get maybe 15k/15k unbuffed, 485 def and then try to max threat stats, hit, expertise, shield block value. Too much avoidance or armor just makes it hard to generate enough threat to keep the party moving quickly.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    17
    lol... k... your all missing the point I made in the first place. I previously had socketed and chanted properly allowing myself around 14'000 HP/ 15'000 AR and 520ish DR. I changed it to its current state as an experiment. I wanted to see how much the insane avoidance (not just DR but more stat specific, like lots of dodge and some parry) would allow me to push the limits of my gear and if it would compensate and allow me to run higher content because I had never heard of it being done and was curious. If you armory my toon you will see that I avoided stacking block stats as heavily as the rest because the idea was to achieve extreme avoidance, not damage reduction. As you can see, these were not blind, inexperienced choices. The idea was to avoid damage, not to deal with taking it, while still effectively tanking.
    And for those of you that are curious, it does work, but it also doesnt. It depends on the specific circumstances. Example: Heroic MgT has been a cake walk, but Heroic SH is just brutal. lol . Kara is problem free with the exception of Prince, simply cus I am not comfortable enough with the fight yet. In general, rage generation was not effected due to the slected talent spec I'm guessing. Overall threat however, definitely effected when dealing with 3 or more mobs.
    Anyways, the question I trying to ask, lol, was regarding game content that I havent experienced yet. Like , for example, becoming MT in ZA. Like I said, I intentionally spec'd my gear the way it is knowing its not conventional. Reason being, our guild wants to progress together, with out leaving others behind. Messing with this has made it interesting while I wait. lol. So really my question regards to ZA for the near future as most of us are geared for it now.
    And on a final note, dont be afraid to try new things because you might be pleasantly surprised with what u find
    Last edited by Jodatee; 05-13-2008 at 11:15 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    21
    8 def gems make me cry.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    102
    As most others have said, you HP is going to be very low for ZA, and yuor threat, as others have said WILL suffer, a good dps will never push past the tank, but a good tank will never see the DPS even close to them when the DPS go full out, which im guessing is not the case with your DPS. Def is great, but that comes with the gear, go for Stam and armour atm, as that will give you an easier time learning the newer fights in ZA and onwards.

    I personally would be interested in a WWS report of you Mting in Kara, to see what the group and ur threat is like.

    Regards,

    Silthias

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    40
    Hi m8

    Maybe I am allso missing the point but here goes my version of what u are asking .
    Stats you should aim for to be able to MT Prince and Most in ZA :
    - Armor 16000-16500
    - Unbuffed health 14000-14500
    - Def rat : 490-500
    - Block : 24 %
    - Dodge : 20 %
    - Parry 16 %
    - Hit rat : 7 %
    - Expertice rat : 4 %

    Obviously it can vary and one stat can make up for the other but in general I would feel that these are quite average good stats to start MT'king Nightbane , Prince and Beyond with . Anyone pls correct me if I am wrong

    Hope this helps
    Lio

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    13
    Once your gear keeps upgrading, you wont have to stack all those gems or you will end up with like 600 defense. I have 15k health and 17700 armor unbuffed and like 22 percent dodge, 19 percent parry, and 27 percent block with about 515 defense. I would never go into the 560s unless my gear gave it to me without gems.

    I would replace some of the 8 defense gems with some 12 stam gems and watch how much your HP goes up.

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