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Thread: TPS from WWS for druids and pallys

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    I've been using coolio's for quite some time, so out of curiosity, I'm starting to look at our paladin and druid tanks using this. Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with what I should look for in threat generation from them, in terms of what abilities they're using and how often.

    Anyone have a short guide on what I can look for on a WWS page to get a better idea of what they're doing right and wrong, with perhaps some examples of parses of good threat rotations?

    Thanks.

  2. #22
    Should work with full reports, and trash now too.

    Also fixed various bugs causing some valid reports to fail.

  3. #23
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    Finally got a report queue message, it was in english though. Guess Lossendil didn't localize that part.

  4. #24
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    I haven't really tested many reports as of yet.. but I did notice that it reported threat as being ridiculously low for Brutallus fights. Ex. when using the warrior-only tps calculator I would get 831. On the new pally/warrior/druid calculator, it shows 177.

    Edit: this is for a warrior tank's threat. it showed the druid's threat at 178 (nothing else to compare it to, as there are no other druid tps calculators).

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragaan View Post
    I haven't really tested many reports as of yet.. but I did notice that it reported threat as being ridiculously low for Brutallus fights. Ex. when using the warrior-only tps calculator I would get 831. On the new pally/warrior/druid calculator, it shows 177.

    Edit: this is for a warrior tank's threat. it showed the druid's threat at 178 (nothing else to compare it to, as there are no other druid tps calculators).
    Link me this report.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Khordam View Post
    Finally got a report queue message, it was in english though. Guess Lossendil didn't localize that part.
    Well, thats a good thing

    It should work with queued reports then, although I havent had a chance to personally test it yet. You will obviously have to wait a while, or you can just try again later if you dont feel like waiting.

    Narshe is helping with spanish localization so we should have that soon. Only other language I've seen looked like chinese...

  7. #27
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    They would be, since afaik there are Chinese and Korean versions of the game. Also, I believe a Russian translation was announced some time ago, but that's still in the works, if at all.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagelbite View Post
    Link me this report.
    Hmm.. I just did it again today, and its reporting what seems to be correct values now. I really don't know what I might have been doing wrong, as I am sure I tested it a few times yesterday. But disregard my last post. Sorry.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragaan View Post
    Hmm.. I just did it again today, and its reporting what seems to be correct values now. I really don't know what I might have been doing wrong, as I am sure I tested it a few times yesterday. But disregard my last post. Sorry.
    I think I know what it was.
    I started allowing urls to wws reports for the entire raid(including different bosses, attempts, and trash), whereas previously I only allowed urls to single boss attempts. If you weren't actively tanking the entire raid, your tps will be low because the duration of the parse will include downtime, bringing down your average. You probably submitted a url which was a summary of the entire raid.

    For example, this parse spans 4 boss fights + trash
    Sifr - WWS
    same player, but this parse spans only the supremus death
    Sifr - WWS

    So, I added the ability to choose between how the calc will determine the amount of time to use to calc your tps. The default remains as battle time, but if you have javascript enabled you can now choose dps time instead. Calcing it off wws' dps time will result in higher tps figures, as you wont be penalized for periods of inactivity. This should allow more consistent comparison of tps between bosses, primarily with bosses where you cannot tank the entire time due to the encounter. for reference, wws uses dps time to calc thier dps numbers, and so do certain mods. hmmm....maybe dps time should be my default...

  10. #30
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    I would find it reaaaaaaaally convenient if there was a link on the results page to do another test.

    Did I mention you did an awesome job to begin with?

  11. #31
    Added a graph.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    493

    bonus threat calc incorrect?

    I think the application is incorrectly handling bonus threat.

    The known bonus threat on abilities is measured and calculated before applying the threat modifiers. However, your application adds the bonus threat after the threat mod.

    In other words, you have:
    T_ability = ( T_damage * T_mod ) + T_bonus

    when it should be:
    T_ability = (T_damage + T_bonus ) * T_mod

    You end up with very skewed results for Warriors, who gain a large chunk of their threat from innate bonus on abilities. It affects Druids as well, while Paladins won't notice this problem, by the nature of their threat mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagelbite View Post
    Question:
    So, to properly calculate threat from pally healing effects while tanking(like, prayer of mending heals) would it be
    effective heal of 1000
    1000 x 0.5 x 0.5
    result 250 threat?
    This I'm not sure on; I don't know if anyone's explicitly tested to see if the Paladin's 0.5x passive healing threat applies to healing not done by their spells (potions, PoM, etc).
    Last edited by phaze; 05-29-2008 at 01:32 PM.

  13. #33
    For paladin threat, I'd assume the innate healing reduction in aggro would apply to all the healing threat since its treated (AFAIK) as if you had cast the spell.

    Also, I was under the impression that the 90% increased threat from Righteous Fury applied to "all holy spells cast by the paladin." This includes healing spells (Prayer of Mending only) and perhaps the power gains from Spiritual Attunement. I don't know for certain, though.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by phaze View Post
    I think the application is incorrectly handling bonus threat.

    The known bonus threat on abilities is measured and calculated before applying the threat modifiers. However, your application adds the bonus threat after the threat mod.

    In other words, you have:
    T_ability = ( T_damage * T_mod ) + T_bonus

    when it should be:
    T_ability = (T_damage + T_bonus ) * T_mod

    You end up with very skewed results for Warriors, who gain a large chunk of their threat from innate bonus on abilities. It affects Druids as well, while Paladins won't notice this problem, by the nature of their threat mechanics.
    Thanks for your post.

    I think you're mistaken because the "innate threat" column actually is:
    Code:
    T_bonus * T_mod * landed_attacks
    For example:
    Nightstalk produced 907 tps
    from: Nightstalk - WWS

    Heroic strike was successful 36 times.
    Code:
    36 * 196 * 1.495 = 10548.72
    Which is what the "innate threat" column shows.

    So total threat from heroic:
    Code:
    (12883 damage * 1.495) + 10548.72 = 29808.8
    which is whats shown in the "total threat" column for heroic strike

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagelbite View Post
    I think you're mistaken because the "innate threat" column actually is:
    Code:
    T_bonus * T_mod * landed_attacks
    Ah, I didn't realize that you'd already rolled the threat mod into the bonus column. Apologies for the confusion. =)

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    154
    Im a warrior so this calculator may not even be designed for me. But as it appears to work I thought I might point out that the calculator does not show the same number as the addon that was apparently made by the same person(the link appears after you've put in a report at the bottom). During our teron gorefiend attemps last night the add on showed me as having 1500+ TPS and when I plugged the WWS for the same attempt in to the calculator it said only ~1370. Also for the power gain section, I put in one report and it gave me Shield Specialization 65 procs with over 400 threat and then had Bloodrage with two procs with 15 threat (I have Imp Bloodrage so two procs equals 52 rage). I was curious if that is correct or not.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by OnourisofRavencrest View Post
    Im a warrior so this calculator may not even be designed for me. But as it appears to work I thought I might point out that the calculator does not show the same number as the addon that was apparently made by the same person(the link appears after you've put in a report at the bottom). During our teron gorefiend attemps last night the add on showed me as having 1500+ TPS and when I plugged the WWS for the same attempt in to the calculator it said only ~1370. Also for the power gain section, I put in one report and it gave me Shield Specialization 65 procs with over 400 threat and then had Bloodrage with two procs with 15 threat (I have Imp Bloodrage so two procs equals 52 rage). I was curious if that is correct or not.
    Like it sais at the bottom of my reports, if you want more accurate results, use the mod.

    The mod is just a wrapper for omen's engine, it doesn't calculate anything itself. Omen uses the most accurate threat engine available.

    The wws parse only provides partial data. This means only part of the threat calculations can be done. For example, misdirect threat is not possible from wws. Omen handles misdirect perfectly though.

    My tool doesnt discern between normal bloodrage ticks and the big 10-16 payload when you first use it, but it doesnt need to. wws sums the total rage gained. So, your problem was not that it was calculated wrong, but that wws showed you only gaining 2 rage.

    ps- rage is supposed to be 5 threat per rage. your post made me realize i was incorrectly using the stance modifier, giving about 7.5 threat per rage, which is wrong. fixed now.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Is anyone else having trouble with it not taking into account spiritual attunement?

    Anonymous Player produced 670 tps

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jere View Post
    Is anyone else having trouble with it not taking into account spiritual attunement?

    Anonymous Player produced 670 tps
    Fixed.
    Was a problem with the different 2.4 renderer.

  20. #40
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    Dec 2007
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    Thanks!!

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