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Thread: Comprehensive Warrior PvP Guide

  1. #101
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    Not sure if this was brought up yet or not, but it seems as though your Spec configurations have been cleared. I am fine with coming up with my own spec, but I would like to compare to how you have set it up and make sure that I am not nerfing myself with a bad spec.

    Also great guide. This will definitely help me maximize my pvping potential.

  2. #102
    As a warrior player myself, with the new 3.1.0 patch, the new build i tend to use is this one (51/5/15). It seems like with this new patch, the arms spec as improved quite a lot especially with the possibility to charge while in combat and the improved "unrelenting assault". I found that this build as an awesome versatility. This build as almost all the power of a full arms and fury spec.

    I usually start my fights with the charge macro:

    /use battle stance
    /equip 2H weapon
    /use charge
    /use hamstring

    This gives me a good way to boost my rage and do some damage with the option of hamstring that i dont necessarly lunch all the time. I usually use rend with all improvements with talents. Then i quickly switch to defensive stance versus most melee opponents, especially vs pallys. The main idea is spamming revenge (unrelenting assault+improved revenge). I use this multiclic macro to quickly go into defensive mode:

    /use defensive stance
    /equip 1H weapon
    /equip shield
    /use blood rage
    /use blood fury(racial)
    /use shield block
    /use trinket?
    /use trinket?
    /use shield wall

    I dont use this macro to its full extend right away. I dont want to use shield block and shield wall all at once because of reduced effectiveness. I fight my way through in defensive stance until i see they want to run away. Then i can use the same charge macro i used before or i can use this intercept macro:

    /use berserker stance
    /equip 2H weapon
    /use blood rage
    /use harmstring

    Then i focus on execute after doing a Bladefury in conjonction with wrecklessness.

    Since i swap a lot my stances, i use stance mastery. My 5 fury points are used for cruelty and my protection points go into inproved revenge, improved block, last stand and parry. I use my last stand in conjonction with retaliation as a panic button. This is the macro i use:

    /use last stance
    /use battle stance
    /equip 2H weapon
    /use retaliation
    /use potion?

    This is what my way of playing is. Feel free to comment.

    *My macros might have key typping mistakes in it since i wrote them on the go.

  3. #103
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    I've definitely discovered that using the UA with revenge as a HUGE boon to my survivability while keeping my offense if not increasing it with revenge spam. interesting spec, most pvp warriors currently are spec'ing 60/11/0 i believe, and losing piercing howl is definitely a big loss by going 51/5/15, but recently I've been playing in full PvE spec and likewise don't have piercing howl, and haven't notice dmyself getting kited as badly as before, largely in part to juggernaut.

    Good suggestions on the macros, people need to understand very clearly though as you've mentioned that they are MULTICLICK macros. You basically click them over and over again depending on your situation. I've been a fan of multiclicks myself, but find it hard to explain to other players how to use them correctly.

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxbull View Post
    Can you update the guide for 3.1, please?
    I realize it's out of date. Right now I'm kinda tied up on researching DK info since I rerolled but I think I will find the time to update this within the next few weeks.

    For a reference for specs:

    Most warriors are either going 57/14/0 or 60/11/0.

    World of Warcraft Arena Ranking | SK Gaming

    You should be able to find more info on this by browsing AJ warrior forums or by viewing the warrior profiles on SK gaming list I linked above
    Last edited by Bloodwraith; 04-28-2009 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #105
    Most PVP players are going 57/14/0 or 60/11/0 and i do agree with that. So lets examine more closely the main differences between those 2 builds and the build i propose being either 51/7/13 or 51/5/15.

    The 57/14/0:

    What 6 or 9 points could i take off from arms to bring it down to 51...

    I think that improved heroic strike and improved mortal strike are not a must.
    I can use glyph of revenge with the 51/5/15 build wich would make heroic strike cost no rage after a revenge, when fighting in defensive stance versus melee wich is what i would want here. And glyph of heroic strike, wich will give me a 10 rage bonus for every critical hit done with this ability wich occurs often when spamming revenge with a free heroic strike each time. Then, improved heroic strike would only be really good when playing versus range or magic opponents since i would not fight them in protection stance as i would versus melee. And for my part, i mainly use mortal strike for the 50% healing reduction effect and not really for the damage it makes. The ability costs 25 rage and doesnt make more damage then revenge wich only costs 5. So, the 10% bonus for damage when using mortal strike aint quite a big loss from my point of view. And the 1 sec cooldown reduction is not worth talking about. From my point of view, putting 2 points into improved slam is a waste.

    Now for the second part, lets compare the 14 points left that would either go to fury or protection...

    The main idea behind going into fury is to get piercing howl. I personaly think that with this build, you clearly put 2 points into junk from having to choose between booming voice or both second row talents. For each of the specs discused here, cruelty and armored to the teeth are chosen.

    If you wish to go into protection to get improved revenge and last stand, you will have to sacrifice 5 points into not so good talents but this will make you way more powerfull versus melee opponents. You will either have to choose between putting 5 into shield specialization or 3 into this talent and 2 in improved bloodrage. This appears to be bad at first sight but cant be at bad as it looks especially if you are fighting versus melee opponents with shield specialization. In second row, both talents can be good to take in protection tree.

    And now, lets compare having to choose between piercing howl or last stand+improved revenge:

    Piercing howl is terribly good especially versus kiting. With the release of 3.1.0 patch, arms warrior have another good solution by going juggernaut. And versus mages who blink, piercing howl aint quite efficient compared to juggernaut possibility. On the other hand, last stand can change the turn of a game occasionnaly and improved revenge will give a 20% damage bonus to revenge with a 50% chance to stun. With the new patch, unrelenting assault gives an additionnal 20% damage bonus to revenge wich brings it to 40% damage bonus with a 50% stun and with a low 5 rage cost! Think about it, everytime you use revenge, you get a free heroic strike with the glyph and this for only 5 rage cost + a possibility of gaining 10 rage if your heroic strike is critical with the other glyph.

    Now, depending on wich way you choose (51/5/15 or 51/7/13) you can put 2 points into armored to the teeth or shield mastery with of course, the 5 points into cruelty.

    The conclusion: I would prefer to go with the 51/5/15 versus any melee opponents and maybe would prefer going into 57/14/0 versus kiting opponents. But, i think, arms warrior are way less exposed then before to kitting with the new juggernaut ability. Versus melee opponents, spamming revenge with the 40% damage bonus and 50% stun makes you a killing machine without any doubt. While they are stun, you can move behind them for next blow wich improves efficiency.

    Any comments on this would be welcomed.

  6. #106
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    Great discussion guys, I'm definitely switching to arms from fury, but possibly throwing in some prot is food for thought.

    I do have a question. Since I'll be using totally different talents, anyone want to post their key binds? I was looking at bloodwraith's, but that's out of date now. My current binds kinda suck so any suggestions given the arms emphasis would be great.

    Also @moontracker, how often does revenge proc for you?

    Thanks much.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHammer71 View Post
    I do have a question. Since I'll be using totally different talents, anyone want to post their key binds? I was looking at bloodwraith's, but that's out of date now.
    They're not really out of date. Warrior's haven't gained a bunch of spells since that was made. Just substitute in a couple and it's up to date.

  8. #108
    With shield block for a 10sec, it proceeds 100% of the time with a 1min cooldown. With 2 points in shield mastery, shield block will have 40sec cooldown instead of 1min.

    The rest of the time, revenge proceeds depending on your block, parry and dodge %. This means it depends on the talent points you put into anticipation and deflection and also on the gear you have. But i can tell you that this proceeds really often especially versus opponents with low expertise rating. I can't tell you how often it proceeds since it depends on a lot of things but i can tell you that i send almost all my rage points doing revenge when im versus a melee opponent.

    If you ever want to try it out check my post #102 that suggests some multiclic macros. Those can help out with quickly engaging into defensive stance and returning to berserker or battle stance with the option of charging and intercepting. Those 4 macros i have sent out do save a lot of time when alternating a lot from battle, berserker to defensive stance.

  9. #109
    About bindings, for my part, i don't use any shift or ctrl key modifier. I made macros to help me save space so i don't have to use them. I have binded those keys:

    /, r, t, y, f, g, h

    The 4 macros i have presented in my #102 post are binded to one of those. I binded the defensive macro to T and last stand macro to F.

    My intercept macro is / and my charge macro is 1. I use those 2 macros for each of the 3 stance bars. I also got more macros i have created. I will probably make another post to discuss about those.

    Have fun.

  10. #110
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    @bloodwraith: I took a closer look at your binds and i see what you mean, at least it gives me an idea to start with. I was wondering though, do you use the modifiers with the same hand as you move? In other words do you hit, say, alt-Q holding alt with the thumb and q with a finger of the same hand? As a pianist I could pull this off but it'll take getting used too. Seems that would be best so your hand never leaves the mouse.

    @moontracker: Thanks for the reply. I haven't committed my points yet so still thinking about it. Anyone else have thoughts on putting some points into prot?

    thanks again all.

    (must . . set up . . . macros. . .)

  11. #111
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    Yes, I do everything but turn with my left hand. It takes some getting used to but getting something off the second you need to is game breaking.
    Last edited by Bloodwraith; 05-03-2009 at 11:25 AM.

  12. #112
    I do have to agree that Piercing howl is a great ability. The only problem is, from my point of view that you must put a lot of talent points into junk. Just to show the idea, i can compare some skills that can be swaped from (60/11/0) to (51/5/15)

    By going (51/5/15) By going (60/11/0)

    - Incite instead of - Improved heroic strike
    - Improved revenge instead of - Improved slam? or Improved Mortal strike
    - Improved bloodrage instead of - Booming voice
    - Anticipation instead of - Improved Hamstring 'not sure about this'

    On the other hand...

    - Last stand instead of - Piercing howl
    - Anticipation instead of - Improved Hamstring? 'not sure about this'
    - Armored to the teeth instead of - 3 points in shield specialization
    or cruelty


    There is something here to think about. Opinions might vary from 1 people to the other.

  13. #113
    I have been carrying the idea of doing the 51/5/15 spec (with cruelty) as a viable PVP spec. To evaluate it more carefully, I have tried to calculate the DPS done by a fully geared warrior at level 80 when using shield block and being attacked by melee hits.

    With Unrelenting Assault, you spam Revenge 4 times every 5 seconds when activated. Assuming you use shield block, you spam Revenge 8 times in 10 sec 100% of the time. Each time you spam Revenge, you have a 50% chance to stun for 3 seconds. This means that your opponents DPS will drop drastically since he will be stunned almost all the time when you spam revenge.

    Assuming the following:

    - Unrelenting Assault (2) and Improved revenge (2) (40% more base damage for revenge)
    - Every attack is successful (no misses)
    - The warrior as:

    - 18000 Armor
    - 2000 AP
    - 20% critical chance

    This gives us:

    3210.0 Average damage done by revenge (includes criticals)

    2568.0 Average DPS done by revenge (includes criticals)


    Now, this does not include the damage done by your weapon that is added to this DPS since Revenge is not on GCD (Global cooldown). Now let’s see how much DPS could be added to the revenge DPS calculated above assuming:

    You use Glyph of Heroic Strike and Glyph of Revenge
    All those swings are Heroic Strikes (+495 damage) since they will all be free with the glyph
    You put 3 points into Incite so you get an extra 15% critical chance for Heroic Strike
    Weapon damage is between 350 and 600 damage and speed is 2.5.
    The warrior swings 5 times is weapon in 10 seconds (maybe 6?)

    - 35% critical strikes for every hits

    This gives us:

    2753.7 Average damage per swing (includes criticals)

    1376.9 Average DPS (includes criticals)


    If we sum those 2 DPS for each of the specs and we deduct a 5% damage penalty for being in defensive stance, we obtain:

    3747.7 Average DPS (includes criticals)

    This means that for 10 seconds you will do a lot of damage. On the other hand, by being in defensive stance with shield block and almost perma-bashing your opponent with revenge, you will take almost no damage at all.

    Not bad, what do you guys think? Feel free to comment.

  14. #114
    Oh so i forgot to talk about rage in my last post and forgot to mention the last patch modifying damage penalty when being in defensive stance form 10% to 5% ;D.

    In total, this DPS will be done with a cost of only 40 rage (i wonder how you can make more damage than this in 10sec with 40 rage especially with a 1h weapon and a shield). Since i have assumed that the warrior would be using glyph of heroic strike, this means that you will gain as an averge, at least 10 rage during this laps of time. This means this whole attack would have only cost 30 rage. This is easly gained as a starter if you have stance mastery and you start charging, then switch to defensive stance and use bloodrage.

  15. #115
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    Moontracker, it might be a good idea to move this discussion into it's own thread if you want it to get more attention. Just combine your last few posts.

  16. #116
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    If you do move it to a new thread please post the link here, I would love to follow this discussion some more, you guys have got some great advice and info here. I play a Prot warrior for my guild when we raid, but I'm starting to get back into PvP and want to try my hand at arena when I have more pvp gear and your posts have helped me immensely, especially concerning keybindings, macro's and the mechanics behind different talent specs and abilities.

    @Moontracker:

    For your 51/5/15 spec would you switch to Defensive and pop Shield Block, revenge spam and then when SB is on CD go back to Battle Stance? If you stay in defensive for long time would it be effective to swap some pvp gear for BV gear? The extra BV for shield slams is nice for some big hits.

    I've been thinking of PvPing as prot (13/5/53), geared for BV, enchanted for pvp and gemmed for crit and glyphed with HS, revenge and block. I've heard of people getting 6-8k shield slams this way, and with the revenge spam, prot could probably pump out some decent burst damage. I haven't tested it out though as I'm still collecting my BV gear.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated
    Experience is that marvelous thing which lets you recognise a mistake when you make it again.

  17. #117
    About Shield Slams: You will launch Shield slams occasionnaly for debuffs on paladins or when you want to quickly dump rage to switch stance.

    You will want to be fighting in Battle or berserker Stance 2H weapon with this spec (versus Mages, Priest, Warlock). Versus meele you will find yourself fighting in defensive stance most of the time. Versus Rogues you will fight in both defensive and offensive stances. If you invest in BV gear, you will be better versus melee with a good "Turtle mode". On the other way, you wont benefit from BV when fighting in Battle or Berserker stances a lot. This means less efficiency versus ranged but better survivability versus melee. As you can see i will present you 2 2 pieces set below wich can prove themself quite usefull here and going for Block instead could be a loss.

    I have taken a look a bit at the gear available and i could suggest this as a ending 4 piece equipment for this spec.

    Deadly Gladiator's Battlegear (2 pieces)
    Deadly Gladiator's Plate Gauntlets (hamstring cost -3rage)
    Deadly Gladiator's Plate Shoulders
    Bonus: +50 Resilience Rating

    I don't think that 4 pieces is worth for a -5 sec on CD for Intercept. With Juggernaut ability you wont need it.

    Conqueror's Siegebreaker Battlegear (2 pieces)
    Conqueror's Siegebreaker Helmet
    Conqueror's Siegebreaker Battleplate
    Bonus: 2 pieces: Heroic Strike and Slam critical strikes have a chance to grant you 150% haste rating for 5 sec.

    Heroic Strike have a chance to grant you a 150% haste rating for 5 sec. Wow, can you imagine what this means for the 51/5/15 spec? You spam heroic strike 5 times in a 10sec Shield Block. With Incite talent you can boost up Heroic Strike Critical % to approximately 35%. This means that the 150% haste rating will often go on. No point in getting 4 pieces for bonus with this spec unless it is only for the stats.

    The rest of the equipment depends on the issues you have.

    Now that you mention you are playing (13/5/53), if you want to make 6-8k criticals with shields you should stay in this spec. With the spec (51/5/15) you do not boost a lot your talents for Shield Slam (Sword and Board, Gag Order, Critical Block). You want to rely mostly on revenge and heroic strike spamming wich is more effective at a lower rage cost. By stunning your opponent, you will be able to hit him in the back more easilly and will diminish his DPS drastically. Shield Slam is on GCD, and Revenge is not wich makes you launch more Revenge to compensate for a lower damage.

    Since a lot of people are aware of the kiting issues warrior may have, if you still want to hold on to Unrelenting Assault and Revenge but you would like to be more consistent versus kiting you can:

    - Put more points into Improved Hamstring and use Hamstring Glyph
    - Get Piercing Howl by sacrificing on some Arms point and Blade Storm

    Builds i would be curious to try out:

    45/11/15
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    - Rage issues?
    - Demoralizing shout extra
    - Piercing Howl

    And i will put this one because it is the Highest Damage Amplifying spec possible for revenge spamming. Inserting Death Wish in the macro for some melee feast. On the other hand, less bleeding effects and problems appear versus frost mages and more.
    I dont think it is as good as it may look but it might be nice to give it a try:

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    - Defensive mode macro with integrated Death wish for a handfull of damage
    - Demoralizing shout extra
    - Less Bleeding
    - Poor execute




    I want to "Turtle up" mainly versus melee opponents. As a full Arms or Fury warrior, fighting a paladin, a druid or another warrior can be really hard. Improved revenge with unrelenting gives a serious possibility versus those opponents.


    this always depends versus who you are playing. The main line i use is this one (check earlier post for macros):

    Charge Macro (Equips 2h +stance, hamstring)
    Making them bleed and troma for the time you spend in battle stance

    Then, you might want to switch or stay in battle stance depending on your opponent and the action he makes.

    If you get attacked melee versus paladins, druids, warriors and shamans:
    "Quickly go into turtle mode"

    1. Dump your rage to 25 or less with whatever skills you think is best
    2. Use defensive macro (Equips 1h,shield +stance +further commands to some extend)
    3. Pop shield block, spam revenge and heroic strike
    4. Use Shield Wall

    If Revenge is activated: spam revenge and heroic strike
    If it is not: use disarm and sunder (1,2 or 3 times "depends")

    When Shield wall expires or If he is low health and tries to run out, you want to go into berserker stance. You use the Intercept macro with hamstring and try to launch a big execute. You can use Wreckless in combination with Bladestorm or execute for more effect.

    If you are weak: Maybe the Last Stand + retaliation macro can help out
    Then when you go low again or Last Stand expires ----> Shout + Bandage and potion

    For sure, with 51/5/15, you can be able to pierce trough paladins, warriors and druids more efficiently. In this way you might sacrifice some of your power against kiting and ranged opponents.

  18. #118
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    Ok guys,

    i have question about arena tactical for my understanding. Im warrior with 890 ress and use 2 hand weapon from H HOL. Im partner with druid as a healer. Its hard to get 1000 rating on my arena.

    So when i go details about my understanding, example for vs priest + DK .. i will atack priest as a healer. I will charge & hamstring. If hamstring succes i will MS and follow by rend and MS again untill get Overpower. So when my healer got stuck or close to die, i will charge DK and fear them for give my healer times to heal himself.

    Go back to priest, i will use my whirlwind if i succes on hamstring +MS + overpower (using rend ). This tactical im use for my 2s arena. I always attack healer > cloth > leather > mail > plate. So that is correct or any ideas to help me improve my DPS on 2s arena..

  19. #119
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    I wouldn't be so strict on what you stick on. I try to swap around and find openings.

    Make sure you peel enemies off of your healer as much as possible.

  20. #120
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    I'll try to update this to 3.1.2 during this week now that I have my DK guide done. A lot of the sections are transferable to this one as well.
    ______________________________

    Macros section updated.
    Last edited by Bloodwraith; 05-31-2009 at 07:00 PM.

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