Introduction
With the raiding scene becoming easier to get into, people are getting more and more opportunities to experience end-game and to join better, more progressed guilds. Are you less experienced, but you know your class, and want to join a guild a little more progressed? You might think to yourself, well, I’m at a disadvantage; there are those more geared and experienced than I competing for the same spot, although I probably am a better player than they! How do you make your application stand out more?
What They Want To See
As a the recruiting officer of a raiding guild, I’ve probably seen entirely too many applications. And truth be told, people are horrible at applications. You can be exceptionally geared and/or skilled, but if it doesn’t look like you took your application seriously, people won’t take you seriously. In most situations, raiding guilds probably want someone they don’t have to spare time gearing up. But most people have the mentality that gear and progression can be easily obtained, good attitudes and intelligence cannot. When looking at applicants, people generally place effort and attitude at the top of their list. Understand that most of these people have never played with you and know little about you. Your application is the only information they have, and if you want to be accepted, it’s your job to give them the right impression of you.
Before You Apply
Read those stickies! Nearly all application forums will have one or more stickied thread explaining the guild rules, raid times, loot procedures, and application guidelines and format. Read all of it! Know what you’re getting into, and make sure this guild is what you want in a guild. Follow the directions given in the guidelines. There’s probably nothing more unattractive in an application than somebody not following directions. The stickies are there for a reason; read them.
Also, make sure you are ready to raid. No amount of intelligence is going to convince a bleeding-edge progression guild to pick up a person in all blues, or even worse, greens. Like I said before, you can’t expect them to take you seriously if you don’t don’t take yourself seriously. Grind that rep, do those heroics, do everything possible to get the best possible gear available to you. You may not have been farming the top instances for months, but that does not excuse you from having bad gear. It’s very easy to get good gear these days, so take advantage of it. Also, make you sure you have epic level gems in your gear. Enchant everything that can be enchanted, and do make sure your enchants are appropriate to your class/spec. And don’t be cheap! If you can’t afford to enchant your gear with the best-of-the-best enchants, how can a guild expect you to be able to pay for repairs on new content?
And branching off from the above paragraph, have realistic expectations. A good attitude and a lot of effort will get you far, but know a guild that’s working on the newest released content probably not going to bring a person with 10-man level gear immediately in to raid. Know which goals are achievable, and which are not.
Sell Yourself!
Like I said before, your application is the only impression they have of you. They probably have never done any instances or raiding with you, and this time in the game, it’s very easy for people to get well geared without having skill. This is where knowing how to present yourself comes in. As in all applications, video game or job, you want to bring all your positive qualities to light. How are these people supposed to know you aren’t immature and loot-centric? True, you can tell pretty lies on your application, but generally, people are quicker to recruit the person who tells them they’re positive, punctual, prepared, and skilled before someone who merely links their armory.
You need to ask yourself how you are an asset to this guild. Why should this guild recruit you over others, especially if you’re lesser geared and experienced than other applicants? Are you reliable, responsible, mature? Are you active and social beyond raids? Do you take criticism well? Do you listen to instructions well? Are you vocal in fights where communication is necessary? Do you think you’re a perfect player, that this game requires no skill, or are you the type who always watches for mistakes and is always striving for personal improvement? Is your situational awareness good? Are you motivated, a hard-worker, and enthusiastic? These are the sort of things they want to know about you. These things set you apart from other applications, so forget modesty, sell yourself!
Don’t be afraid to make things lengthy. Few people will ever respond “tl;dr!” to detailed, well written applications. In fact, the more informative, the better. Try to keep things relevant, but don’t be afraid to elaborate on why you chose your current talent build, why you itemize a certain way, what resist sets you have, that you have a good mic, or show off your theorycrafting skills a bit.
Go That Extra Mile
If your previous guild used WWS/WMO/WoL, provide a parse even if the application didn’t ask for it. Take a screenshot of your UI, even if the application doesn’t ask for it, and rationalize your mod and keybinding set-up. Be prepared to go the extra mile, it will encourage them to think you will go the extra mile as a raider as well (which you should!)
If you’re a transfer applicant, mention several ways to get in touch with you- email, instant messengers, or mention you’ll consistently check the forums for private messages. If they want you badly enough, they might make a level one on your server to chat, but giving them other means of communication shows initiative and makes things easier for them.
Make sure you log out with your raiding gear on. If you do not have a raiding spec, link the build you would use to raid with. Nothing is quicker to show a lack of preparation than an application applying to a raiding guild not ready to raid. How are they supposed to judge if you meet their standards if you’re in pvp gear?
Be sure to also plainly state you know the raid times and are not only available to make them, but you’re able to show up at least 15 minutes early for invites, and sometimes stay a little longer on progression nights if needed. Here is also the spot to mention any conflicts you will have with the schedule. Be thorough! It’s not wise to wait until after you’ve been recruited to mention you have to work on Tuesday nights.
Be prepared to explain your ability rotation, to elaborate on class specifics, or to answer several “what if?” scenarios people sometimes respond to your application asking.
And link that armory! You’d be surprised to know how many people think their name and server will suffice. Yes, it’s not that hard to open up a new window and search for you under the armory. By not linking your armory, though, you’re basically stating you’re lazy, loud and clear. That’s one of the easiest ways to get yourself denied right off.
Don't Assume Anything
Another big mistake I see in applications is that people assume a lot. Assume nothing. Even if it’s common knowledge, you’re there not to test their knowledge of the game, but to prove yours. They don’t know you or anything about how you play. I can’t stress this enough! If you have to question yourself on whether or not to elaborate or justify your knowledge, go with your gut and go with the detail.
Appearance
Appearance is just as vital as everything else provided in your application. If English isn't your strong point- even if it is- run a spell check. Try to use proper punctuation, capitalization, and full, coherent sentences. Well spoken and intelligent applications are rare, but valued just as much as your gear. It's just another part of presenting a good image to them.
Make your application look pretty! Don't leave anything blank, add spaces in between all the questions, pick a neutral color (something like blue, not.. pink or orange), and make all your application questions that color and bold it. It organizes your application, making it much easier to read. It takes a lot of time, true, but believe me, it makes you look better.
References
If you're on the same server, you'll most likely be expected to name people who can vouch for your skill and credibility. Even if they don't ask for references, it still makes you look better. Not all guilds research potential applicants, but some do, and some do it in depth. If you have a nasty background and it's well known, you might as well be upfront about it in the application, although it's recommended you not be flippant about it. "Yeah, I stole my guild bank before transferring. The noobs were totally mad, lolololol. Anyhow, I can be trusted, so can I join your guild?" And while I'm on the subject, I would not condone lying about anything, end-game experience or guild history. There are ways to find out anything in this game, so be wary about being dishonest.
If you're a transfer, you probably should still name a few references. In fact, it might be better if you do since it's sort of impossible to do trial runs with an application before transferring. Word-of-mouth (or is it keyboard?) is the easiest way to get an idea of what sort of player you are without seeing you for themselves.
Show Some Personality!
And last, but not least, don't be too serious! Show some personality. People want dedicated and reliable players, but they also want you to be fun. There's a line between making a joke every other question, but don't be afraid to throw in a humorous quip or two. They want to find people who will fit in with the other members of their guild, not some silent, bot-like player.
Questions You Should Be Prepared To Answer
I've prepared a list of common questions you might see in applications:
- What is your spec and what did you choose this particular build?
- What other builds have you played with? Why did you switch out of them?
- Would you respec for the raid?
- What are your general play times? Is there anything that would affect your availability and attentiveness during raids (work, family dinner, school, parents, etc)?
- Give us a detailed description of your computer's specifications - CPU/RAM/GraphicsCard/Monitor, etc.
- What sort of internet connection do you have, and how stable is it?
- What do you think the strengths and weaknesses of your class are?
- What is your average hours played per week?
- Do you strafe, and in what situations would you strafe?
- Do you turn with your mouse or keyboard?
- Are you a clicker?
- What's your previous guild history, and why did you leave those guilds?
- What's your raid experience? Be specific, don't just say "BT."
- What is your previous MMORPG gaming experience, if any?
- What can you offer us? (Or "Why should we recruit you?")
- What rare patterns/recipes/plans do you have for your professions that may be helpful to the guild?
- What are you looking for in a guild?
- Do you have Ventrilo installed? Do you own a mic? Can you talk without horrible feedback? And will you talk if communication is necessary?
- What's your favorite raiding encounter?
- What do you feel should/could be changed to improve your class/spec?
- What resist gear sets do you have? Are you willing to farm the mats for your own resist gear?
- Do you have the new pvp trinket?
- How situationally aware are you?
- What's the best wipe you've ever caused?
- Do you use consumables in raids, and if you do, which?
- Do you pvp any?
- What's your role in the raid?
Before You Post That Thread...
Before you post that application, be sure to go through this check-list:
- Is all your gear enchanted and gemmed correctly?
- Are you in your raiding gear and raid spec'd?
- Do you understand the guild's rules, and can comply with them, including raid times and DKP/loot systems?
- Did you follow the application procedure correctly?
- Are you available to raid/transfer immediately?
- Did you proofread your application?
- Is your armory linked?
- Is your application clean and easily readable?
- Did you answer all questions, leaving no questions blank?
- Did you provide WWS parses, UI screenshots, and references?
- Does your application show someone who puts effort into what they do?
Summary
In summary, if you're a good player who has put a lot of effort into his/her gear and knowing his/her class, if you're intelligent and mature, and you write a detailed, well-written application, your chances to be recruited will rise. It's all about effort.
You won't be accepted into any guild, true. Be realistic about your expectations, and you'll be successful!
Last edited by Ariedan; 11-16-2009 at 03:11 PM.
This is me to a "T." I started playing this game kind of late and feel as if its been near impossible to find a solid guild that will take a prot warrior like myself. I keep plugging away and appreciate all your solid advice. I think that's one of the reasons I've enjoyed the little TS guild so much, because I feel like I'm finally getting a chance to play with players of matching skill/interest. It's a journey, eh? Thanks again, Criss!
Very nice post Criss. While I am not currently looking to change guilds, I will keep these tips in mind should my guild part ways and/or I want to progress deeper in to 25-man content.
Nice post, Criss.
This is exactly the kind of thing we're looking for when someone apps at our guild.
I agree, it's very solid information. Nice post!
I've got more plate than your grandma's cupboard.
Updated with some more things I forgot to mention.
If you think of anything that should be added, please let me know.
God damn it, i wish i had this information before applying to that guild XD
They turned me down on having too many warriors, never stood a chance and checking my app, never sold me to get that trial invite =(
Very Nice guide to apping to any guild. thats the first step in being able to raid. getting into a well organized guild with cool people that are great players.
Very nice guide for all people looking for a guild. We'll actually be using this to modify our own guild application form.
Thanks.
Some suggested additions:
1. Start by making a list of the things you want in a guild. Then go about finding a guild that fits those goals. If you can't find a guild that meets your needs then consider building one. (Worked for me, right Criss?)
2. The most important question you should be ready to answer is "What questions do you have for me about our guild?". Be willing to ask questions and make sure that the guild is a fit for you. Don't ask questions just to appear smart: be willing to discuss any topic you raise.
3. Go out of your way to befriend current members before you apply. For example, watch LFG for member requests and then PUG with them. Not only could this net you a reference, but it may also put you in a situation where the GUILD is actively trying to recruit YOU.
4. Keep your /gquits drama-free whenever possible. Try to keep a good relationship with your former GM and guildmates. Server raiding communities are smaller than you think, and on the older servers everybody knows everybody.
5. When applying to your top choice, let them know about it. "After doing some research I believe that PULSE is the best guild for me. I have not applied to any other guilds at this time, and will wait to hear from you before applying elsewhere."
Finally, some don'ts:
- Don't be a lacky. "I'll spec any way you tell me to and I always pass on loot."
- Don't state the obvious. "I like to raid, so I'm applying to a raiding guild."
- Don't try and get around minimum standards. "I know I'm under 18 but I'm totally mature for my age."
- Don't be ashamed of who you are. "I do okay DPS even tho LOLRET sucks for raiding."
- Don't disrespect the guild's methods. "I'd rather not interview in vent. Can we just text?"
- Don't be a jerk. "I'm a better player than most of your current members."
(Quotes are taken from actual interviewees, by the way).
Overall; awesome post, Criss!
O_o someone... out wall o texted me..
nice read though! ;D
As a former officer, I've seen my share of good and bad applications. You are spot on with this guide, and I hope the people who read it take the advice.
Time to pass the title on!Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma
Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.
codecreeper61: Think of it in terms of joining an amateur sports teams, rather than a job application. Because, really, that's the closest "real world" comparison you're going to get. You're going out there, and you're going to have 24 teammates depending on your on the field, plus others cheering you on from the bench.
If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to do your best for the team, then it's very counterproductive for them to let you join.
And, in general, guilds will have more people wanting to join them than they have room for. Sometimes there'll be a void that has to be filled, but chances are good that there's competition for a given role even if the guild is actively recruiting for it.
So, yeah. It might deter a lot of people. But if somebody is deterred by it, that's not the guild for them, because they are not going to be committed enough to really contribute to even a fairly laid-back guild that's raiding in MH/BT.
If you're looking at joining a Kara/ZA/Gruul/Maggie killing guild, you can probably be pretty relaxed these days—although it depends on where that guild intends to go next. But that attitude certainly won't get you accepted into "any guild", which is what this post was about.
That is because raiding, for tanks, is like a job. The raid having to adjust to new tanks, especially The Main Tank, is something a lot of raiders don't like or do well. Also, I think the post was directed at hardcore guild.
PS: To the OP, good post. Your next post should be, "How to work your way up from Demo Shout & Thunder Clap bitch to Main Tank."
I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy.
Using that mentality, are you implying you take nothing about this game seriously- your gear, your class knowledge, and content knowledge? It may just be a game, but there is nothing wrong with taking something you enjoy seriously. I used to be a musician, and I took my auditions, scholarship auditions/applications, and performances seriously. It was just a hobby, not a job. My brother plays football, and he takes it just as seriously- but it's just a hobby, not a job.Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.
Maybe it's just the sort of person I am- I'm an all-or-nothing kind of guy.. girl. I think if something isn't worth the effort, it's not worth doing at all.
Last edited by Ariedan; 07-29-2008 at 06:00 AM.
It's called how to get accepted into any guild for a reason. She's not trying to say you can't get accepted into a guild if you don't do this stuff, but if you want to get into any guild... you bet it's going to feel like a job application.
Yeah, I was being serious. I think that is the normal path that most tanks take.
I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy.
Excellent article, Criss. I would like to comment on a few things, in reply to the actual article & another which prompted my interest, by Sardaukarr.
and finally, make sure you always know what a reference is going to say about you!
- Don't overuse the pronouns (i.e. "I" - who else would the application be about?)
- Don't ignore minimum requirements (such as age, etc), but don't let it keep you from applying if you meet all other requirements & are mature.
- Don't talk negatively or gossip about prior guilds, friends, playmates. They could be potential guildmates, and it makes you look bad.
Also, in response to the person who claimed it was like a job application: the concept is the same -- to weed out inadequate candidates. In what better way, may you suggest, that this be done?
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