How To Get Accepted Into Any Guild

[Fetzie]

Firstly, I hope your application had more punctuation in it than your post right there because it wasn't particularly easy to read.

You need to prove to them that you are better than their raiders. WoL parses of 5 mans or random raids showing that you don'T stand in the bad stuff while doing decent damage.

Do your research as to the guilds you are applying to. Someone applying to a 5/7 heroic guild who isn't decked out in 372/378 gear probably will not be accepted (or even discussed). You might think you can keep up, but the guild leaders don't know you - for all they know you might be one of the many full epicced out 7k dps pugs you find in zul-x random heroics.

Look for baradin pugs led by guild members, if you impress them they might put a good word in for you - a recommendation from a guild member can be worth at least as much as ten WoL parses.

[Quinafoi]

I just hope it isn't really a big fish in a small pond. One thing I hate to see is people thinking they are better than they really are because they can do everything but its their teammates holding them back or that they are strong enough simply because they are do better than those they run with today.

Simple fact of the matter is in an aweful raid and a world first raid someone will be on top of the meter. Being the big fish in the small pond doesn't mean you are necessarily ready to take on things in the ocean.

"I'm really good" is an oppinion. The problem is that's your oppinion. You need to make that the oppinion of those who would recruit you.

[Vaayne]

yes i know i do not type right or whatever i know i suck at it im way better at verbally telling what im trying to say and its not a big fish in a pond thing i never said i was the best i only said i am better than what i have seen i do everything i can aside from fighting the bosses because i cant get to them when they rest of the group fails.

and i have tried to do all those things you said Pyrea but anytime i get into a pug hosted by those players i get comments on how good i do but when they have the chance they do not say anything about me to the guild leader or whoever looks at the apps.

i will admit that some guilds have denied me because of my typing which i find stupid i do not see how typing out answers to random questions has anything to do with me healing in a raid.

i try to get the guilds to give me a shot by like running a heroic or something to show im good but they all say the samething fill out an app and we will talk to u if ur what we are looking for

i have a lot of raiding exp and its all been healing i have never switched because its what i like doing almost every raid that has been out i have healed unless its new and i havent gotten that far i can answer ever question about healing on a priest and get it right i can show that i know how to heal but people still dont want me at least on my server

[Fetzie]

To be perfectly honest, if I was the application officer of a semi to full blown hardcore raiding guild (I was an officer in a semi-hc guild for a while) who read through an app written like your two posts, I would probably have denied it before looking at your armory. And I'll tell you why.

Your application is the first thing the guild's recruitment team sees. It forms their first opinion of you and is the key to getting to the second stage of the application process - I'll call it "background checks". The armory check, WoL check, maybe they would ask your old guild about you if the application is not private. But they will not go through all this trouble, and sifting through somebody's armory and a WoL parse that they linked is a lot of trouble to take as when done thoroughly it can take nearly an hour of their own time (they do not get paid to do this work), is not something that they will do if your application does not impress them. And nothing impresses somebody (who probably has to handle at least 5 applications per week) less than having to read through a 400+ word document which is full of grammatical errors. It needs to be perfect. There are tools that can help you do this (when I write applications I use MS word and make liberal use of the spell checker, and let a friend proof-read it to be sure), any word processing software has a spell and grammar check (even Firefox has spell and grammar check plugins).

There really is not a single reason why your application should have any typos or missing punctuation, and I believe that so long as the applications are solid, and is error free, there is no reason to deny you out of hand.

As for getting people to vouch for you:
The day after a Baradin Hold pug, I can't remember who was in the raid and did how well. I think this is the case for most people. If you want someone to vouch for you, and they have commented on how awesome you were, talk to them directly after the boss dies and loot goes out, say something like

Hey, I was thinking about apping to your guild, do you think you could put in a good word with the recruitment officer for me?

or

Hi, I was going to apply to your guild, would you mind if I put you in as a referrer?

This alone can act as a memory jog when they see your application. Without it, chances are they will have completely forgotten about it by the time they go to bed.

[Vaayne]

I have done all that im starting to think its just the server im on

there isnt a full blown fix the way u type thing online anywhere and so what im bad at spelling its not like that determines how i play the game (i dont get what the obession WoW players have with proper english its not like anyone ever has it perfect) i mean to deny me because i can spell a word right or i type messed up is stupid i cant help it i suck at typing its not like im stupid i graduated high school i just have a problem with typing stuff out

[Fetzie]

What they probably think is "This guy can't even be bothered to run a spell check in Word before applying, how can we expect him to prepare for raids if he won't get the application right?"

Not being good at typing is not a good reason for submitting an error filled application. Copy-paste (or even write) it in Word, OpenOffice (a totally free version of MS Word) or whatever the Mac version of Word is called, get someone who you know whose English is good and ask them to read it through. The application is the first impression they get of you, and the impression a badly written application gives to a guild is "does not care". And believe me, that is not a good first impression.

They don't know you. All they have about you is a short piece of text telling them why you are the most awesome applicant for the slot they have ever had, and explaining why YOU should be accepted into THEIR guild. Regardless of whether they specify it or not, getting the grammar and spelling 100% correct (ok maybe one or two slips are all right) is very important. Why should they take you seriously when you are (apparently to them) not taking them seriously?

[Quinafoi]

I actually don't find denying you because of your typing that odd either. Honestly if you're not going to put forth a serious effort in your application, why should they put forth a serious effort in considering it. I'm sorry but if you submit a hand written resume on a piece of notebook paper for a job interview, that resume is going straight into the trash.

Additionally, your language skills and your ability to represent yourself in a professional matter actually reflect on your intelligence as a person. Bad grammar and spelling just make people think you're an idiot. That's the honest truth of the matter. And their not going to recruit someone that they feel lacks intelligence.

[Quinafoi]

You claim to do everything the guide suggests. Well have you read the section on "APPEARANCE"?

If you aren't following the guide, you have nothing to gripe about.

[Quinafoi]

I'm going to read a guide on dieting and am just going to ignore the section of it that says I should cut back on junk food. Well I'm following most of the guide so it should work right? This is the logical approach you're taking, which is complete nonsense. You're selecting and choosing what from the guide you want to do and what you want to ignore completely invalidates your claims that following the guide doesn't help.

[Vaayne]

ok i understand this but but i do do the spell checks and stuff for my apps im not stupid but most of the apps i have filled out only ask what contents ive done what my class specs are and stuff like that and i put it all in but i still dont get accepted and get no responce of why

Another thing is if i get into a guild that doesnt have enough people to raid or doesnt know much about fights and other things when i make a suggestion like " There is a place called tankspot that you can look up fights on" or " well instead of trying to get people that are super geared andready for raids why don't we look at getting people that just hit 85 and need to do heroics and help them get geared " i get kicked from the guild i make them at the right times like guild meetings/ when an officer or GM isnt doing something and i always wait until i have been in the guild for more than a few weeks but i still get kicked with no reason why

[Quinafoi]

If I were hired to an entry level position in a new company and stand up during a corporate office meeting to tell the CEO how I feel the company should be run, I wouldn't be surprised to have a box waiting for me the when I got back to my desk. I think you just learned a lesson about the real world.

At this point though I think I'll mark you up as a lost cause since you won't even apply yourself to following the advice in your repeated posts here. You can't even put forth an effort to improve your representation of yourself here on a small scale by applying what you learned.

[Vaayne]

I fully understand that trying to give advice when i have only been there a few days/weeks is stupid,and I am not talking about doing that. I am talking about when I have been in a guild for months I suggest and get kicked, and I don't understand why. I think that if I have been there for a few months raiding showing up on time and other stuff I should be able to voice my opinion, and if I have been in a guild for that long how is it right that someone that never shows and or doesn't get online for awhile should be an officer and not me. It seems to me that unless you are a real life friend or are not with a guild for 2 or 3 expansions your not allowed to work your way up.

So my questions are if I am applying myself to run with people of the guild I'm trying to get in, and trying to talk to them and get the people I run with to say something about me. I do fill out apps. like I should so as to not sound like a retard and the guild leader says I have been informed you are a good player, and I prove in in a guild raid where I get pugged in. Why am i still not getting invited?

My 2nd question is if I am showing more effort in a guild to help guild members out, show up for raids and be ready for them, and give to the guild bank (when I know I will not get it back and that it will not go to the guild just into an officer or guild leaders pocket). Why am I not getting promoted when I have been in the guild for 2 months or more and still the lowest rank even though I let the guild use my vent and the guild leader and officers say everyone has a chance to work their way up?

[Fetzie]

Maybe it is the way that you are giving the advice?

As for the promotion thing: becoming an officer is something that you personally don't have much say in. It usually simply boils down to the officers deciding that since you have been in the guild for a long time (a lot longer than 2 months) and have earned the rank (this doesn't usually mean "has donated a lot to the GBank"). By "lowest" rank do you mean trial rank or normal raider? It is perfectly normal to be a "normal raider" for years before becoming an officer. Look at the officer rank as the equivalent of the executive board of a business; you won't be appointed to it after a couple of months in the business.

[Vaayne]

I only give advice when their ask if anyone has any, and I do it like everyone else does and a lot of people agree with me. I don't know I guess the guilds I have been in think that if everyone is agreeing with me then I'm a treat?

As for promotion I'm talking about I come in 2-6 months later after showing up for raids being ready by having food flasks and other things which the guild for some reason when its level 25 doesn't supply to its raiders, make sure I am doing anything I can to help the guild I still stay at the rank I joined at what u would call the trial rank. I wouldn't mind it so much but I feel if I'm there every raid day and ready using my own gold I should have earned the promotion even more so when I'm the top dps/DD on the meters , and I don't do stupid stuff. The other thing that bothers me is people that have been in the guild less time than I have get promoted to raider rank and get to use the guild bank stuff that I put in there and the guild repair for raid wipes and I can't.

If I am doing more than everyone else is in everyway why am I not getting any rewards for it? Should I just stop trying and maybe then i will get promoted? I don't want to find a new guild because then ill be set back with my rep. and since I know I won't find a better guild set back in progress

[Edd13Mac]

Vaayne, I understand your situation and sympathize with you somewhat, but at the same time you must realize that everything that Quinafoi and Pyrea have said here is correct. Also, they said these things in an attempt to help you, so take it for what it is; help. If you want to raid with a certain guild or group, and they have certain requirements that you don't meet, then you cannot expect to get in. If you apply somewhere, and the first thing on the application says "Please type in an easy-to-read format, ie using proper English and punctuation" and your response is "well that's stupid, I'm not doing that", then you, ironically, are being stupid. That being said, even proper typing isn't everything, allow me to explain my past scenario;

I was in your position (or at least what you describe your position to be) and ended up just giving up on applying to guilds. The most common thing stated about me (at the time) was that I was either "not geared enough" or "did not have enough heroic mode experience." I was at the time 12/12 normal, and only 2/13 heroic.

The statement on gear was likely reflected due to my melee weapon being a 353 (Jindo's Verdict) which I got as soon as the new ZA became available. Luck on loot did not seem to favor me in regards to Halfus. (22 total kills and counting) and so I suffer the consequences. The rest of my gear was 359 with a few 372's.

In regards to my heroic mode experience, I had only downed Atramedes and Halfus on Heroic difficulty, though I knew via studying strategy videos and guides almost all of the fights. That being said, experience will always trump studying, so that doesn't count for much, and when your group starts to wipe to the most deadly boss in the game (the attendance boss) you are essentially left with no serious options. Last resorts are to try to PuG Heroic Modes, but on a server with only 3000 horde players, it was not realistic.

Since about a month ago I have given up altogether on trying to get into serious raiding guilds, and have xferred to a higher population server with hopes that the player base here will be more skilled, and thus make it easier for me to PuG raids. I have accepted the common rule that top end guilds are only recruiting players from other top end guilds or incredibly lucky (and also skilled) players who happen to know the right person/people.

At this moment in time the only chance I see of me killing Heroic Ragnaros is if I pug into something with a player from a top end guild on my server and perform as I always do; then hope that they notice and then ask them to put in a good word for me (if that guild is one I wish to apply to) which was stated before by both Pyrea and Quinafoi for you to try.

Realistically speaking though, the odds of this working are minimal. My plans at this point are to either 1. Get into serious raiding by a stroke of luck, since that is what I wish to do and why I play this game, or 2. Just quit the game in December/January and switch over to something else.

I put a lot of time and effort into my character(s) with both trying to get optimal gear, keeping up with how to min/max their talents/rotation/reforges, and looking up numerous fights and analyzing/planning what cd's to use when. I simply want to be around other players who do the same, but if that is not happening, then why play?

Just something for you to think about, and maybe scroll back up to those other numerous posts and rethink what they wrote to you.

[Loganisis]

I know the title says 'get into any guild' but it was also published in 2008, before Wrath, when gearscore changed the world (and not in a good way).

There are guilds now that only want to grab new applicants who are making a minor upgrade or side grade, or who are being poached from a better progressed guild that's stalled.

However, these guilds are typically easy to spot: "Always looking for exceptionally geared players". If you see that, it's probably a waste to apply if you're not at that level of gear.

Another key is timing. If you are not as progressed as others, looking for guilds that have just had major turn over (later in a patch when progression has stalled and attendence is lagging) is an optimal time to apply.

It's antedotcal, but when I applied to my current guild, I was 2/12 (magmaw, halifus) - and the guild I applied to was 4/13 hardmode. So I have a hard time believing anyone when they say they can't get into other guilds. I think I didn't even have a raid drop (maybe 1?). Everything I had that wasn't blue was crafted/archeology/rep.

How did I do it?

1. I researched the guilds - I looked at the personality of the guilds as much as I could - seeing what their comments were to new applicants in the public application forums. I looked for ones I would come across personality wise as a good fit.

2. I spent 2 weeks reading their questions for ALL applicants. What kinds of questions did they ask, were there any keys? And I read every warrior app I could find. It was almost cheating - answering the questions they ask before they asked it.

3. I committed myself to getting in, so I polished my app. It was something like 4 pages long. I spell checked it and grammar checked it in Word ahead of time. A lot of work? Yes. Overkill? No. I had decided I wanted to be in a more progression centric guild and I put in the time to make it happen. How many hours did I save putting a couple into the app so I didn't have to spend hours suffering through ODS/V&T wipes? I saved a lot.

Basically: Pick the guilds that look open to quality, not gear. Pick the right time. Go over the top in the app. Don't be wordy, but be complete and don't make the mistakes others make.

****

This thread really isn't the place for it, so I wouldn't recommend posting it here, but in the general guild, or Halp! forums, post a link to any public applications you have so people can offer suggestions.

****

And finally - whatever you choose. To try to app more, to quit, or to server transfer, they're all valid. I wish you luck in finding a guild to move to, and I know you'll receive constructive comments if you post previous apps for comments.

[Vaayne]

These are very good things to say, but I have been through them all I have better gear than some people in the guilds I'm applying to that are on their core groups. I am a better player than some of them and I have done a lot more work than they have. I also have the same amount of bosses down as they do or I'm only 1 or 2 behind.

I am starting to think that with the way people are treating the game now I might as well stop playing. I mean look at Lore's PST for this week he states in there that this is a game to have fun playing, but really who has fun playing the game anymore if you cant really play it.

I mean 1 or 2 bosses then end for PuGs is not my idea of fun being cussed out in trade chat when looking for a guild or someone to make something for me just because someone wants to be a d bag isn't fun guilds that I prove I'm better than some of there players dragging my name through the mud just because they are little kids that can't admit they failed or are bad so that I can't get in any guild is not fun.

So here is a question when does a game become more important to shit talk everyone and make it 10x harder for someone else to play than to just play the game?

When is it more important to make money on the game than to keep it where people want to play by banning these people?

When is it time to say the game has gone to hell at least from my stand point since I can't afford a xfer and have to either level a new character and start all over grinding gear instead of doing what I want to do and quit playing?

Also i know this is never going to happen but I would really like Lore to tell me how he can justify the words its a game you are supposed to have fun and world of warcraft in the same lines because from my stand point the game is bad because of the people and i have a feeling at least 1/4 of the 9k people leaveing is becasue of the same reason

[Quinafoi]

I can understand quite clearly why your applications are denied or you end up removed from the group. And I guess since all you can ever understand is what is important to yourself you can't understand other people. I'd tell you your problem is with your attitude, but honestly we've all already determined that you are unwilling to change and demand the rest of the world to change for you. Any continued discussion is just a waste of time. How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.

In any case if you're going to quit the game, quit. This forum isn't for QQ or whining. I'm willing to bet over 75% of the 900,000 accounts that were canceled are because of the player not having fun because that's the whole concept of a game. You're not going to continue paying for a product that fails to deliver for you. Only a small portion of cancelations would fall into other situations such as personal finance or life change events where a person cancels the account out of necessity rather than desire. In the same regard, over 10 million continue to pay, and just like the number one reason for cancelations would be a lack of enjoyment, the number one reason for retention is also enjoyment. Different people have different tastes. If you aren't having fun anymore, that doesn't have any impact on whether someone else is or isn't.

You are a lost cause.

[Exiledknight]

Being a GM of a top 200 25 man guild I think there may be one part of insight others haven't touched on. It seems like all you are looking is on your own server, what is your reputation? I know for one there are a handful of players I would never touch with a 20 foot pole because of things they have done to forge their reputations. If you have forged one of those then no you will not get into any guild that is at the top of HM raiding because they can all be picky about who they accept.

The second thing is attitude, I recently failed a trial, this trial came in and performed great, top 3 in most fights for melee dps(top 10 overall usually) they didn't fail too often and for the most part picked up mechanics quicker than most. However pretty much no one in the guild liked them, they were a know it all, had an opinion on everything, and everyone was wrong but them. Why would I want that in my guild and raid enviroment? It's not always about performance when you are a guild that has a plethora of choices on the trial front, and that is something to keep in mind. Also how often are you asking about loot? That is a big turn off as well, and a few trials who were borderline and we had to spend a good amount of time discussing ultimately failed due to that(not the biggest reason, just one of a few). I would look at your actions, because if the performance is where you say it is, the above reasons are why you got kicked, and most likely why you can not get into any of the guilds you want.

[Ericastar]

Very nice post, everything that an applicant need to see before making a decent application.