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Thread: Expose Armour vs. Sunder Armour Revisited

  1. #21
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    The point is, is the DPS increase for the rest of the raid's melee DPS worth the one rogue's loss in DPS?

    Whether or not his DPS goes through the floor matters jack if the DPS increase for the rest of the raid makes up for it. Individual achievements in raiding is non-existant.
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  2. #22
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    The DPS loss of the 1 poor rogue who had to spec into Imp EA and put it up, would suffer more of a loss than the gain for the whole raid.

    It's *that* bad of an idea.

    But what do I know, I've only had that rogue for 3 years.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunes View Post
    The DPS loss of the 1 poor rogue who had to spec into Imp EA and put it up, would suffer more of a loss than the gain for the whole raid.

    It's *that* bad of an idea.
    Rupture, which is the only move in a rotation that would be removed, is worth at most 8% of a rogues dps on any given boss fight and that is only if they are not bleed immune.

    Between 60 and 75% of Rogue DPS is through white damage, decreasing armor further would only increase this, so there is no way a rogues personal dps would suffer like you claim.
    Last edited by Ceravantes; 03-01-2008 at 07:28 AM.

  4. #24
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    i assume applying imp EA to a mob removes the sunder debuff completely? or is it still applied, just not active?

  5. #25
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    Sunder is removed and any future sunders won't happen. If you try to use sunder and not devastate, it will say a more powerful skill is already active.
    "We actually talked today about adding an item level 300 shirt that did absolutely nothing but mess with mods that attempt to boil down players to gear scores. " -Ghostcrawler

  6. #26
    Well since the more armor pen you add the more valuable it is, how would this be affected with faerie fire ?

  7. #27
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    Seems like a personal dps vs raid dps argument. If you're melee heavy then the extra armour reduction would surely be worth it. It's sort of like the battle shout trinket from TK, sure the warriors dropping a dps trinket but in the right group the AP increase is a massive dps increase. Of course none of my dps warriors would ever accept this argument but cest la vie

    Personally I don't think i'd force a rogue to spec imp EA just to improve the raid dps a fraction. But that's to do with my guild more than the maths, we're more casual and like to have fun, while we keep an eye on spec we like people to enjoy what they're doing and unless they're totally dropping the ball and bringing a pvp spec to the party then we leave em to it a bit. And with sunder being a standard ability for a warrior (ie not having to spec it) I prefer to let my rogues do what they like

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunes View Post
    The DPS loss of the 1 poor rogue who had to spec into Imp EA and put it up, would suffer more of a loss than the gain for the whole raid.

    It's *that* bad of an idea.

    But what do I know, I've only had that rogue for 3 years.
    This isnt true at all.

    We've been using Imp EA on Brut, and we've had two different rogues do Imp EA. Both lose only about 100 dps, going from about 2300 to 2200. (We dont make our glaive set rogue do it, he does 2500-2600).

    Overall raid dps increase is significant, about as much as Blood Frenzy.

    In fact, a rogue gives up much less dps by speccing Imp EA than a warrior gives up by swithcing from Fury to Arms for Blood Frenzy, for a comparable buff. Having an Imp EA should actually be considered a mroe essential raid buff than having an Arms warrior, imo. (You really should have both).


    Threat wise, it works well on Brutallus because it increases the druid's threat by about as much as it decreases the warrior's threat (assuming a warrior+druid tanking setup). You put the Imp EA up when the first transition to the druid occurs and then keep it up from then on.


    If you are using a warrior MT in a normal (no taunting) fight, that is threat sensitive, then Imp EA can cause threat issues. This is simply a reason in favor of druid tanks and against warriors imo, since using a warrior tank means that you cant use a certain strong raid buff.
    Last edited by Crimsonstorm; 08-04-2008 at 10:30 AM.

  9. #29
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    Here is our recent Brut kill WWS:
    Wow Web Stats

    Melee+Hunters+Tanks did total dps of 15167 (5 melee, 2 hunters, 2 tanks). That included a pally respeccing Ret using offspec gear who didnt do well and only got 1226

    475 more armor penetration is probably about 3.5% dps, so thats 530 raid dps. The rogue loses like 100-150 or so from our experience. In total it buffs the raid by around 400 dps.

    While in this kill we wouldve been fine either way, since he died at enrage and we couldve done another 1%, on our first kill he died at 6:38 with 4 people up. There is no way that wouldve been a kill without Imp EA.

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