Arms Vs Fury DPS

[Andenthal]

I am looking for some info on the difference in DPS between equally geared Fury and Arms warriors in a raid setting. Assume all applicable buffs, perfect group setup, etc. I am not looking for how much utility either brings to the raid except for actual raw DPS numbers.
I.E.
Fury = 800 DPS
Arms = 700 DPS
Difference 100 DPS

Also, does the difference in DPS increase or decrease as gear improves?
I.E.
Both wearing T4 level gear Fury will do 100 more DPS
Both wearing T5 level gear Fury will do 50 more DPS

[Baceramus]

Go to Warcrafter.net and sandbox a couple of warriors with the gear you would think puts them on equal ground. Take the stats and feed them into whatever would give you a spreadsheet of a boss fight. Either that or simply look at the different threads on EJ that link to spreadsheets on how much fury is over arms in raid damage.

[Smaken]

I recently got a [item]Gorehowl[/item] from prince (been dualing a [item]The Decapitator[/item] and a [item]Fool's Bane[/item]. Standard 17/44 spec. Went MS for about a week. Hated it. Best dps was in the 400's, while in Fury mode my worst dps was over 400 easy. It could be me, I'm sure, but unless you're only able to hit your opponent once or twice at a time, then Fury > Arms. In PVP its good because your target will try to evade you, so you're not hitting it constantly. The big hits stack up better.

On the other hand, I can't wait till I'm an arena and a rogue or other warrior disarms me - then I pop him with BT anyway, since I don't need a weapon for that.


Honestly, there was 1 guy I knew that could output good dps with a 2hander, but that only went up until we finished out the trash pulls and started on the boss. Once we were on the boss then I could out dps him, and that was in much weaker gear than him.

[Kavtor]

I am not looking for how much utility either brings to the raid except for actual raw DPS numbers.

But that of course, is the trick. In terms of raw raid DPS, Blood frenzy is generally going to more than make up the individual DPS contribution of fury over imp. slam. If you've already got blood frenzy in the raid, fury should pull ahead by a bit, all things considered equal.

[Andenthal]

Thanks Baceramus, I'll do that for sure. Did not know such info was readily available.

But that of course, is the trick. In terms of raw raid DPS, Blood frenzy is generally going to more than make up the individual DPS contribution of fury over imp. slam. If you've already got blood frenzy in the raid, fury should pull ahead by a bit, all things considered equal.

That's kinda what I'm trying to figure out. There is a point where the Blood Frenzy benefit surpases the DPS of a single Fury Warrior. Trying to do the math for my own benefit.

Something along the lines of:
Total melee DPS = A
Difference between Arms and Fury DPS = B

Find the point where;

(A * 1.04) > (A + B)

If (A + B) > (A * 1.04), then it is more benefitial to have the Fury warrior.

For smaller numbers of B, BF will surpass Fury very early on (maybe 5000 total melee DPS). For large numbers of B, you will need a large amount of melee DPS (maybe 10,000).

The starting point is figuring out what the difference is

[Smaken]

The other thing to consider with Blood Frenzy is application.

Most of Kara is undead, therefore immune to BF.

Elementals are also immune to it.

So, if you're specc'ing for it to have it in Gruul's, then rock on. But just keep in mind there are several bosses that are immune to it for one reason or another.

[Kavtor]

Since you mentioned full raid buffs, I'll assume you're looking at a 25 man raid.
Blood frenzy is 4%. The difference between Fury and Arms (assuming equal gear and skill) probably isn't going to be more than 200-300 DPS, depending on gear and skill. That's 5k-7.5k physical DPS. Not to mention the extra threat your tanks get. I'd say if you've got 5+ physical DPS you'll make up the difference. You'd have to do the math for your own group of course, but unless you're abnormally light on physical damage, blood frenzy'll probably work out.

[Aelvain]

I'd speculate that in tier 6 content, a dps warrior should be Arms. The best MS weapon in the game is a frequent drop, while one-handed options are all just lower item levels than the MS option. With the rest of the gear setup being equal but with CE vs. 100 dps weapons, you're going to see MS simply outperform fury I'd imagine.

[Andenthal]

Threat almost becomes a moot point IMO.
A 4% increase in damage does not equate to 4% more threat for a tank, but it does for most all other melee classes. Maybe 2% for a tank??? A 4% damage increase is about 6% more threat for DPS Warriors when the boss is below 20% HP.

Rough calculations are looking about 6250 melee DPS is the breaking point where BF pulls ahead. Also negating other factors pointed out like immunity to bleeds.

[Monad]

One question I have about 2 handed DPS. Were you using a Slam rotation or was it just MS + WW whenever they were up? I know Imp Slam + Quartz has a huge influence on 2 handed DPS.

One thing I'll say about Slam though it's a timing thing and does take practice to get down.

[Aurendil]

A properly executed MS/Imp.Slam rotation can bring a lot more to the raid than a Fury warrior can under proper settings- these being having WF and a relatively static boss. Under raid conditions, chances of having WF are pretty high, whilst static bosses are still a majority.

(The reason for the WF is the high rage requirements of the ImpSlam/MS rotation- properly executed, the rotation requires about 150 rage over a ~10second period, which is extremely hard to achieve without WF)

[Taelas]

Once the gear is in the T6 quality, Arms warriors should drop Mortal Strike and spec Bloodthirst instead -- scales better with Attack Power. With a 20/41 build, you can pump out massive DPS. You lose Blood Frenzy, but you get Improved Berserker Stance.

I don't know how it compares to DW Fury, though.

Improved Slam is an absolute requirement for 2H DPS, and a swing-timer is almost a requirement to use Slam. You also basically need Windfury.

Unfortunately, it's also very unforgiving when it comes to lag.

[Teragon]

TheorySpot - PVE DPS Spec Analysis thats how it worked pre 2.3
now though they didn't give me the proper gear on teh 2.3.2 premades to test it out :\

[Brickhuase]

Once the gear is in the T6 quality, Arms warriors should drop Mortal Strike and spec Bloodthirst instead -- scales better with Attack Power. With a 20/41 build, you can pump out massive DPS. You lose Blood Frenzy, but you get Improved Berserker Stance.

I don't know how it compares to DW Fury, though.

Note the highlighted section of the quote, if you are going to raid two handed its almost a must to have blood frenzy, you will just not match the dps of an equally geared fury warrior.

The utility of blood frenzy is directly related to your raid set ups, if you are caster heavy or your rogues/hunters suck it may not be worth it for you to be two handed. What the problem with a lot of warrior and even raid leaders is ignorance about how much raid damage (overall physical damage increase) blood frenzy can provide. You have to remember you are increasing all physical dps by 4%, that means when you do calculations don't just add in your dps, your tanks damage (warriors,feral druids) also do 4% more damage.

So well yes your dps is lower, your overall raid damage may have been better because of blood frenzy. There are more things to consider then just your numbers as an MS warrior, many guild members dont understand the fact that while i am doing 1000dps in actuality i would have to do over 1350 dps to equal out what blood frenzy is adding. It can be a lot harder to learn how to manage your rage raiding two handed without windfury but if you take the time it will come, ideally you want to have windfury.

Most bosses are not bleed immune so this point is not worth discussing. 10 mans, no it is not worth it for sure, if you are in a raiding guild then likely yes it is worth it to have 1 blood frenzy warrior as long as the rest of your physical DPS is performing.