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Thread: Why is it good to be Passively Uncrushable?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syana View Post
    Except for the fact that every attack will be blocked for 600 damage.
    Which probably won't offset the loss of EH.

    Unless, naturally, you're massively overgeared for the encounter.
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  2. #22
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    Which probably won't offset the loss of EH.

    Unless, naturally, you're massively overgeared for the encounter.
    Like Satrinia said - when you remove the chances of getting crushed, you also lower the EH minimums for that fight.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sair View Post
    Like Satrinia said - when you remove the chances of getting crushed, you also lower the EH minimums for that fight.
    You completely missed the point. We are talking about fights where crushing blows are not a factor (specifically Nalorakk and Halazzi in Zul'Aman).
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    Excellent point - the zealous passive uncrush crowd is about as bad as the zealous anti-passive uncrush crowd.
    See interestingly enough, I hadn't encountered too much anti-pc crowd and after frantically combing the net for as much info on passive uncrushable sets as possible, I realized that I needed some grounding b/c I felt I was slipping into the zealous pc crowd whereas I'd rather be in the middle.

    This thread has been a big help so far and even if the set ends up just being a fantastic farming tool and potentially amazing for multi-tanking when combined with a shield spike... well then it's worth it. Another tool in our belt as you say.

    I think it's safe to say it's only worth pursuing this set once you've milked ZA for all the avoidance heavy pieces you can get your hands on. The set should be very strong for a lot of slower, hard hitting bosses as well simply to remove the potential oops factor of parries.

    So far, this is the list of bosses I'd say it's worth it for:

    All of Kara
    ZA (Eagle, Dragonhawk)
    SSC (Lurker, Tidewalker)
    TK (Al'ar)
    BT (High Warlord Naj'entus?)
    Hyjal (Anetheron, Azgalor?)

  5. #25
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    the only thing about passive uncrushable sets is if you have a solid dodge and parry you can still be starved for rage even on fights like teron gorefiend. is saving that 10 rage and not having to shield block going to make up for the loss in threat?

  6. #26
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    I consider passive uncrashability as a goal like 75% mitiagation by armor. I dont see passive uncrushabilty as being lazy but as strategy to gain large returns in mitigation.

    Right now I am at 61% armor mitiagation and around 450 damage blocked. With shield block up I am generally mitigationg 5-15% of incoming damage. Total shield block mitiagtion percentage is of course dependant on the incoming hit. The slower harder hitters being around 5% and the faster softer hits around 15%. Conseravatively even at 3% of total damage mitigation by shield block, I would need 3,000 more armor to get the same effect. Going by the 5-20% that would be quivalant to 5,000-15,000 more armor. Unless rage is to low or my threat is slacking off I usually keep SB all the time.

    Of course I am personaly dealing witht theory <shrugs> maybe some day I will know for sure.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paruhdox View Post
    the only thing about passive uncrushable sets is if you have a solid dodge and parry you can still be starved for rage even on fights like teron gorefiend. is saving that 10 rage and not having to shield block going to make up for the loss in threat?
    You actually save less than that because you gain 1-2 rage from blocking.

    IMO, passive uncrush is always better than EH sets, provided that you easily meet the minimum EH requirements for the fight.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paruhdox View Post
    the only thing about passive uncrushable sets is if you have a solid dodge and parry you can still be starved for rage even on fights like teron gorefiend. is saving that 10 rage and not having to shield block going to make up for the loss in threat?
    I have less dodge and parry in my near-passive uncrush set than I do in my balanced gear set that I wear for most stuff. More than in full EH of course, and obviously less than in full avoidance. It's really heavy on block rating.

  9. #29
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    I gotta agree with Satrina in that having a crush immune set where sbr is your primary stat stacked would not encourage rage starvation of any sort. Of course you'd lose EH, there's no arguing that, but being able to completely remove the chance of taking a crushing blow will simplify the fight to possibly enough of an extent that it is better off. I talked to one of my guild's primary healers about passive uncrushability and he said that, when things are rolling smoothly and the steady stream of healing is coming, there are truly only a few things that can happen that will throw off this smoothness, and the biggest one is a leaked crushing blow. So from a healing standpoint, it definitely is an advantage.

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  10. #30
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    I'd definitely lean toward block rating for any passive uncrush set. One confusion people might have is that a "passive uncrush" set is the same as stacking avoidance. But if you're stacking shield block rating you aren't avoiding the dmg you're just pushing crushes off the table. The upside is block ratings high rate of return makes it take a lot less item budget to reach the goal and so you don't have to give up nearly as much EH as you would with a heavy def/parry/dodge set.

  11. #31
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    I am starting to eat into my passive uncrushability with my gear which i use for tanking the hard hitting bosses (ie. tidewalker). If i wanted to, i believe i could re socket my gear and change a few pieces to become crush immune. However i don't think this would be optimal (because of the reducution of stam), and i look at crush immunity as more of a bonus than a focus. I am hoping with more upgrades, I'll become crush immune without sacrificing my other stats.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by veneretio View Post
    S
    So far, this is the list of bosses I'd say it's worth it for:

    All of Kara
    ZA (Eagle, Dragonhawk)
    SSC (Lurker, Tidewalker)
    TK (Al'ar)
    BT (High Warlord Naj'entus?)
    Hyjal (Anetheron, Azgalor?)
    Any fight that you out gear, you're probably leaning towards max threat to keep up with your DPS. Lurker and Tidewalker are certainly possible though, and dual wielding mobs would be a good choice.

    Al'ar is better with EH / Avoidance mix, on the off chance your OT's all go own, and you have to eat the melt armours. Naj'entus you really want to minimize your damage taken, and maximize your threat, since DPS can unload pretty hard, and it's a pretty stressful fight for the healers.
    Anetheron doesn't really matter gear wise, but Azgalor would be a poor choice. He's the first single target boss in quite some time that my healers have complained about the single target healing demands.

    It would be a decent set for Hyjal trash tanking though. Just to reduce melee damage taken while tanking a bunch of mobs.

  13. #33
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    This talk got me thinking.

    If you wanted to create an "invulnerable" set for grinding outside of instances... could you do it before you could make an uncrushable set for bosses?

    I'm trying to remember how the hit table changes for level 70 trash or elites vs. 73 bosses.

    Is the only difference a lack of crushing blow in the hit table?

    Has anybody tried this? Wondering how hard this would be. I can already handle all of the Temple of Karabor trainees in 1 pull thanks to the [item]Figurine of the Colossus[/item], but it would sure be fun to not even need that and just watch everything bounce off.

  14. #34
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    Lack of crushing blow and only 100% total avoidance+block needed instead of 102.4%. The biggest problem with that would be that your DPS would be -very- low. You could grind forever without stopping (potentially), but it would take you a lot longer to go through 10 mobs than if you grind with a DPS set.

  15. #35
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    Someone that actually has one of these sets, is there anyway you can show this to me, or log out in it and let me know so I can look it up. I think I am far off from getting a set for this, and not really looking at it now since I am still trying to progress with my guild to higher raids anyways. I would like to know just for my own knowledge just how you built it that is all.

  16. #36
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    I think the gear I'm logged in is passively crush immune, unfortunately, I was grinding the numbers @ 2AM last night, so I could be completely wrong.

    Frankly I didn't even realize I had it until a friend of mine asked me what my total avoidance was at. This assumes BoK, MOTW, and fort flask btw.

    As you can see, I didn't sacrifice EH, but dodge is a very large factor in the total avoidance, so the set works fine in Sunwell, but I'll have to let you know after I run BT tonight just how little rage I have. I'm most likely going to ninja-swap me a TPS group set-up when no one's looking :P.

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  17. #37
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    To Alacastramos: The set you are in now (with a base miss chance of 5%) is 102.48% avoidance + block. If you take 10,000 hits from a raid boss, you'd probably get crushed once or twice (if my math is right).
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  18. #38
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    Uncrush is 102.4, so I'm .08% above.

    C/D

    And if I'm wrong, ++Scroll of Agility XD.
    Let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them.

  19. #39
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    My memory for numbers has been terrible today...I should stop trying to correct people. Thanks though.
    I. Am. Warrior.

  20. #40
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    NP, I'm just glad someone else was able to check and reproduce my numbers.
    Let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them.

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