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Thread: Gorefiend Threat Parse

  1. #41
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    @gyre/kanga: you didn't have wf, so that's pretty huge. keeping up tclap hurts a lot, as well as demo shout if u had to keep that up. your gear choices seem fine, maybe swap in the supremus ring or the tk trash ring for the sundered souls as it should help you with threat and get you a bit more rage as well so you can toss in more HS's.

  2. #42
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    Okey dokey. Will try that next time. Thx.

    -- gyre --

  3. #43
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    TC isn't so bad to keep up. It isn't a great threat move, but it's not bad. And it takes a fair amount of time for a DPS warrior to stance dance to keep it up. Demo shout should certainly be put up by an OT though if you can manage.

  4. #44
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    yeah, but in the spirit of this epeen thread, forgo tclap next time. you'll get more rage too. just warn your healers. lul.

  5. #45
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    I know that this thread is all about Gorefiend at this point, but I kind of want to put this where I know the warriors are really good... Do any of you by chance have WWS or threat parses from fights where you were doing the T4/T5 transition fights((Gruul/Lurker)) back before you were in T6 gear, just trying to get an idea of where I should be... I'm still getting back into the warrior tanking thing for post BC raids, and there were a few people in my guild that were having threat issues. One of them is a mage who in our raid groups normally is pushing like 50% crit with 1k+ spell damage, and the other is a well geared rogue were the two big ones that I was talking to. I saw really quickly one of the places where I was seriously screwing up((had to break myself out of sundertard tanking...yes its been that long)), and was able to tack on about 100ish threat per second according to the logs on Gruul, but the numbers still seem to low for me to be happy. I have had terrible luck on drops so I dont have a lot of the things that would really spike my SBV, and had to fill in other spots before I could get the autoblocker because drops hated me.

    Anyways if any of you could at least say where you remember the threat you were pulling or post parses I would really appreciate it. Also maybe for Lurker because the only other fight I saw that had a parse for it was from a guild that did lurker in like 1/4th the time we did so there were way fewer dive phases so i couldnt tell if my threat really did suck or if it was just all the dive phases where i wasnt really doing any real threat.

    I was looking at your parses and trying to just compare the damage per ability we were doing and the one I clicked on was doing more then 200 per shield slam, and basically 30-50 more on average from every other tracked ability, but that doesnt quite seem like it would explain the 700 more TPS then im pulling. of course endless rage allowing never ending heroic strikes might explain the rest. I just don't want to be holding my guild back... and yes I'm only pulling about 615 TPS on gruul... trying to get better so any advice will help.

    Armory

  6. #46
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    1. Put a shaman in your group and have them drop windfury. This should solve most issues. If not...

    2. on top of the autoblocker get a brooch of deftness. i think that's 76 badges. a KD will be better for threat as well, put executioner on it if you'd like. Also pick up a T4 helm, or if you have access to hexlord, a battlesworn tuskguard. those are a few of the simplest gear upgrades I can come up with.

    3. make sure your rotation is tight. shield slam, revenge, 2x devastate, rinse repeat. replace devastates with tclap when you need to, and ask another warrior to keep up demo. if you find yourself rage starved, go ahead and forgo the tclaps. HS when you have the rage to do so, but again don't go crazy on it if you're rage starved.

    I wish I still had old wws's to share with you, but i'm too cheap to pay for good wws services. you should be able to pull 900-1000 easy, which should be more than enough to stay ahead of your dps granted they have salv. make sure they don't dps too early and are using a threatmeter. oh, and ask for misdirects.

  7. #47
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    We're often short on shamans, one or less in almost every raid is it enough of a boost where I could make a legitimate case to take it away from the DPSers? I know that might be a bit of a noob question but this is the first guild I've been in that had that few.

    Yeah, Kings Defender and Mallet of the Tides refuse to drop for me, otherwise I'd have them, we dont do ZA much and haven't really gotten to far so as of right now thats not an option. And the DPS isnt stealing agro, but have run into issues with having to hold back after a bit.

    I've been as tight with the rotation as possible, while I might be a bit slow, if I should be pushing 900 I'm not THAT slow heh. Is thunderclap a better threat ability than say the devastate it would take out of the cooldown? Because I've had an offtank doing that and Demo on most fights.

    From my end they have said it got better once I reealized I was being an idiot neglecting HS, but I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to support our continued success. I know that there are some times during both of the fights where I have guild logs to look at where I'm not doing anything, but even factoring that in I really did feel like 615 seemed low, if its just a case of drops that arent happening for me yet thats one thing, but it just seems like if I really should be pulling 900-100 that somethings totally not cool... from what I've seen actually looking at omen during the times where its just me and the boss I am getting near 900 on both Lurker and Gruul, assuming im not getting a chain of avoids where I end up not being able to HS, but using that parse website the gruul fight showed 615, dont know what I'm doing...

    anyways thanks for the input, I'm planning on both the brooch and Autoblocker, but was filling in pieces that just werent dropping for me first so they've been getting pushed back. I kind of regret the necklace choice... but at the time I made it, it seemed good in my head... now i just have to remember why.

  8. #48
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    My wws from Teron: Alpiino - WWS

    Battle time in seconds: 330

    Heroic Strike:
    Amount: 59052 Hits: 115 Crits: 23 Dmg Threat: 88282.74 Skill Threat: 45388.2
    Shield slam:
    Amount: 41530 Hits: 38 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 62087.35 Skill Threat: 19735.495
    Melee:
    Amount: 14487 Hits: 34 Crits: 16 Dmg Threat: 21658.065 Skill Threat: 0
    Revenge:
    Amount: 20540 Hits: 40 Crits: 9 Dmg Threat: 30707.3 Skill Threat: 14724.255
    Devastate:
    Amount: 24895 Hits: 71 Crits: 11 Dmg Threat: 37218.025 Skill Threat: 12381.59
    Shield Bash:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Cleave:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunder Clap:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Reflect:
    Amount: 1750 Hits: 79 Crits: Dmg Threat: 2616.25 Skill Threat: 0
    Vengeance:
    Amount: 2553 Hits: 28 Crits: Dmg Threat: 3816.735 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunderfury:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Deep Wound:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Lifebloom:
    Amount: 4401 Overheal: 33% Threat: 2948.67
    Earthshield:
    Amount: 16670 Overheal: 12% Threat: 14669.6
    Prayer of Mending:
    Amount: 53921 Overheal: 9% Threat: 49068.11

    Total amount of dmg threat: 246386.465
    Total amount of skill threat: 92229.54
    Total amount of healing threat: 34817.525

    TPS: 1131.6167575758


    % of damage done
    Heroic Strike 35 %
    Shield Slam 25 %
    Devastate 15 %
    Revenge 23 %
    Melee 8 %
    Vengeance (Holy) 1 %
    Reflect (Nature) 1 %

    When inspecting other WWS in here I noticed that the % of damage done by different skills in my WWS looks quite same than for example Ciders who I assume to know how the best threat rotation goes. Therefore I assume my threat rotation is ok. SS,Rev,Dev,Dev + occassional HS.
    Only BT/hyjal loot I used at the kill was Kaz'rogals shield, rest was SSC/Eye loot+badge loot so I guess I did ok when comparing to my gearlevel.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Paladin threat aint got nothin!

    Wartorn, given that even my Revenges were all over 10% larger than yours, I think it can be safely attributed to executioner enchant. That, and perhaps I had a higher (100%?) uptime of SoE, battle shout, and so forth, than you.

    Edit: Judging from the fact that my average hit taken was also substantially less damage than you, this is probably just a matter of overall raid "togetherness" and uptime of buffs. Demo, Sblock, TC, Battle shout, expose weakness, soe, etc. (Although I do Ironshield, that's gonna cut off 500ish damage, not 1300~)
    There's also a gear difference as wells as the fact that your raid dps is nearly twice as high. Shorter fight means a larger % of dps time is with heroism, for example.

  10. #50
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    Feb 2008
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    Here's my parse from last nights Gorefiend kill....

    I figured I post it as I feel It's a nice comparison for those without top-notch threat gear and without prefect setup. I think this was our guilds 3rd kill of this boss.

    Backround:
    Only T6 level gear I had as of last night is: Kaz Shield, Akamas Legs, Hyjal rev. ring.
    No windfury Totem
    And I had to do the Tclapping, and some demo-shouting.
    No Executioner Enchant


    WWS Loading...

    Battle time in seconds: 299

    Heroic Strike:
    Amount: 61482 Hits: 107 Crits: 22 Dmg Threat: 91915.59 Skill Threat: 42428.1
    Shield slam:
    Amount: 39810 Hits: 30 Crits: 7 Dmg Threat: 59515.95 Skill Threat: 16981.705
    Melee:
    Amount: 6206 Hits: 23 Crits: 1 Dmg Threat: 9277.97 Skill Threat: 0
    Revenge:
    Amount: 14975 Hits: 31 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 22387.625 Skill Threat: 10817.82
    Devastate:
    Amount: 22886 Hits: 60 Crits: 9 Dmg Threat: 34214.57 Skill Threat: 10418.655
    Shield Bash:
    Amount: 67 Hits: 1 Crits: Dmg Threat: 100.165 Skill Threat: 343.85
    Cleave:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunder Clap:
    Amount: 1421 Hits: 8 Crits: Dmg Threat: 2124.395 Skill Threat: 3717.69125
    Reflect:
    Amount: 1583 Hits: 62 Crits: Dmg Threat: 2366.585 Skill Threat: 0
    Vengeance:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunderfury:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Deep Wound:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Lifebloom:
    Amount: 23305 Overheal: 37% Threat: 14682.15
    Earthshield:
    Amount: 7899 Overheal: 10% Threat: 7109.1
    Prayer of Mending:
    Amount: 53093 Overheal: 10% Threat: 47783.7

    Total amount of dmg threat: 221902.85
    Total amount of skill threat: 84707.82125
    Total amount of healing threat: 42128.55

    TPS: 1166.3519105351


    ...AND he dropped the Gloves!!

  11. #51
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    Feb 2008
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    I am looking at my threat numbers on WWS on this fight and Im just WAY behind where I should be I think. This is wearing 21 expertise, using executioner enchanted Unbreakable Will and some SB gear (T5 pants, gorefiend gloves, autoblocker). I did get rage starved once in the fight, but generally spreaking I was pretty tight on my rotation.

    Comparing my numbers to what others have posted for fights about the same length in time I am critting a LOT less, when I do hit, I hit for less damage. Is the difference between 850 tps and 1200 tps really having LoTP and WF in your group? How do you justify taking those buffs away from your melee?

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


    http://wowwebstats.com/dokumq5tqt52w?a=10&s=9451-9765

    Battle time in seconds: 319

    Heroic Strike:
    Amount: 41398 Hits: 104 Crits: 9 Dmg Threat: 61890.01 Skill Threat: 37165.7
    Shield slam:
    Amount: 29768 Hits: 34 Crits: 4 Dmg Threat: 44503.16 Skill Threat: 17440.67
    Melee:
    Amount: 13710 Hits: 64 Crits: 5 Dmg Threat: 20496.45 Skill Threat: 0
    Revenge:
    Amount: 15020 Hits: 36 Crits: 3 Dmg Threat: 22454.9 Skill Threat: 11719.305
    Devastate:
    Amount: 11345 Hits: 42 Crits: 2 Dmg Threat: 16960.775 Skill Threat: 6643.78
    Shield Bash:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Cleave:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunder Clap:
    Amount: 2411 Hits: 14 Crits: Dmg Threat: 3604.445 Skill Threat: 6307.77875
    Reflect:
    Amount: 970 Hits: 40 Crits: Dmg Threat: 1450.15 Skill Threat: 0
    Vengeance:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunderfury:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Deep Wound:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Lifebloom:
    Amount: 26185 Overheal: 71% Threat: 7593.65
    Earthshield:
    Amount: 17909 Overheal: 9% Threat: 16297.19
    Prayer of Mending:
    Amount: 3477 Overheal: 57% Threat: 1495.11

    Total amount of dmg threat: 171359.89
    Total amount of skill threat: 79277.23375
    Total amount of healing threat: 16489.8

  12. #52
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    Norway
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    Figured I might as well contribute. Wearing 4/5 and Gloves of Enforcement, SSC Mallet and the Autoblocker. 5.26% hit / 25 (6.25%) expertise. Curse of Recklessness and Faerie Fire on the boss. The MT group looked something like 'Protection warrior (me), Rogue, Protection Paladin, Feral Druid, Resto Shaman'. Overall, I should have been doing more, but I blame my shaman for not popping Heroism, and the lack of Battleshout.

    Wow Web Stats

    Battle time in seconds: 235

    Heroic Strike:
    Amount: 51377 Hits: 99 Crits: 16 Dmg Threat: 76808.615 Skill Threat: 37823.5
    Shield slam:
    Amount: 29914 Hits: 27 Crits: 3 Dmg Threat: 44721.43 Skill Threat: 13768.95
    Melee:
    Amount: 6158 Hits: 21 Crits: 3 Dmg Threat: 9206.21 Skill Threat: 0
    Revenge:
    Amount: 11450 Hits: 25 Crits: 3 Dmg Threat: 17117.75 Skill Threat: 8413.86
    Devastate:
    Amount: 19119 Hits: 40 Crits: 13 Dmg Threat: 28582.905 Skill Threat: 8002.735
    Shield Bash:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Cleave:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunder Clap:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Reflect:
    Amount: 1254 Hits: 53 Crits: Dmg Threat: 1874.73 Skill Threat: 0
    Vengeance:
    Amount: 307 Hits: 3 Crits: Dmg Threat: 458.965 Skill Threat: 0
    Thunderfury:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Deep Wound:
    Amount: Hits: Crits: Dmg Threat: 0 Skill Threat: 0
    Lifebloom:
    Amount: 27657 Overheal: 46% Threat: 14934.78
    Earthshield:
    Amount: 25241 Overheal: 14% Threat: 21707.26
    Prayer of Mending:
    Amount: 24458 Overheal: 22% Threat: 19077.24

    Total amount of dmg threat: 178770.605
    Total amount of skill threat: 68009.045
    Total amount of healing threat: 35327.03

    TPS: 1200.4539574468
    <Serendipity>
    Vashj-EU.

  13. #53
    How accurate is this? Because when I did Gorefiend, every time I looked at Omen, my threat was at a steady 1200-1500, sometimes scaling considerably higher. However, when I plugged my WWS into that site, it said I did about like 1100-ish sustained TPS.

  14. #54
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    The calculator is very accurate. Omen shows threat on a shorter sampling period, it's several seconds at most, unlike the WWS parser which analyzes it from the moment you engage till the moment the mob dies. You're probably sustaining 1200-1500 most of the time, but any little lack of action for a while where you're rage starved and sitting at 800-900, really adds up, and that's why the OVERALL sustained is lower.

    Moraval: I've obtained over 1200 TPS sustained without either WF or LoTP, and 1300+ with just one of them. It's a decent bonus for sure but not the end-all-be-all. Generally, tanks receive the buffs when there's no better place to put those classes. Often the tank group just turns into a second DPS group, if that's your raid style. Typical melee group 1 is 3 rogues, warrior, enh shaman. Other group can be resto shaman, tank, another dps warrior, or a warrior offtank, (or paladin), and a feral, or some other combination. It's very common to raid with at least 3 shamans, often 4, because they're a very very strong class, and feral druids are pretty common as well, and they don't go in the rogue group, usually.

    As for your WWS results, you're not heroic striking nearly enough. I find it unlikely you were rage starved if you were using the gear you claimed. Keeping up a general rotation and using heroics with the extra rage on Gorefiend should put you at a much lower &#37; of plain melee attacks. You had a feral druid in the raid so I don't see why it didn't go to you. You also had some hunters. I think your problem lies in overall group synergy not being taken advantage of, which ends up hurting your threat. Also, you have a moonkin, so the 3% hit you're gaining from that - are you using those itemization points saved by putting on differently weighted gear for threat?

    You may want to take a look at this guide I wrote: http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/the...ng-threat.html
    Last edited by Xav; 02-07-2008 at 11:00 PM.
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  15. #55
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    Dec 2007
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    More stuff: The "tightness" of your basic rotation has a lot of room for improvement.

    Here are the total number of times we performed these abilities (this counts hits, crits, and total missed/dodged/parried attacks). Then, the maximum number you could possibly perform at peak efficiency, assuming NO LAG. Since that isn't possible, you can scrape off a couple of each as the fight goes on longer due to lag.

    Moraval

    37 ss
    68 dev
    47 rev

    Fight Duration: 315 seconds = 52 possible ss/rev, 105 possible devastates


    Xav

    23 ss
    44 dev
    23 rev

    Fight Duration: 157 seconds = 26 possible ss/rev, 52 possible devastates

    SS should be as close to Rev as possible. If it's exactly equal; or equal +/- 1, it was probably a flawless run. (Ie - you couldn't possibly have squeezed any more in due to latency or other truly uncontrollable issues) The "1" is because the boss could have died before you hit the next button.

    It's pretty simply derived, fight duration in seconds divided by 6 = the "ideal perfect" number of shield slams and revenges. Fight duration in seconds divided by 3 = the "ideal perfect" number of devastates. The log of mine I used ( WWS Loading... ) is very close to the max theoretically possible. Not the max possible threat, but the max possible number of SS/Rev in that fight.

    I find this to be a useful way to look at tank threat outside of just raw TPS, because you can generate threat in various ways without necessarily doing it the "right" or "best" way. Finally, the basic SS/Rev/Dev/Dev rotation takes very little rage at all to perform, so it's something that bad avoidance streaks don't really affect. If you see the ratios/numbers of times these abilities are used being rather suboptimal, you know that the tank is most likely hitting heroic strike at the wrong times and repeatedly starving themselves for rage to the point of being unable to do the basics. Or, they don't understand the basics.

    I'll probably include this bit in my guide at some point soon.
    Last edited by Xav; 02-07-2008 at 11:22 PM.
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles Area
    Posts
    398
    Weapon
    Swiftsteel w/ Executioner

    Unbuffed Stats
    22 Expertise
    16.74 Crit
    8.69 Hit
    794 AP

    Buffs
    Bloodlust
    WF
    SoE
    Battle Shout
    BoM
    BoK

    Parse
    Wartorn - WWS

    Total amount of dmg threat: 249267.33
    Total amount of skill threat: 82533.7175
    Total amount of healing threat: 27275.92

    TPS: 1471.6269159836

    I still have lots of room for improvement. Only hit 29/40 SS.

  17. #57
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    You're looking at that wrong, the "Hits" doesn't count "Crits".

    What I do is open the config menu for the display, and check the NB (number) of Crits and All Miss. (All Miss combines Dodge, Parry, and Miss on your attacks). That will let you see the actual number.

    You shield slammed 36 times, 29 hit, 4 crit, 3 "missed". Or, less than 10&#37; were avoided, specifically the listed % of 8.3%

    Numbers wont get much lower than that without luck - my offtank tanked Gorefiend this week and pulled just under 1600 TPS (he has a slightly better threat suit than I, since I let him have the Kaz'rogal shield as a massive upgrade over his previous not having Bulwark yet!). When I looked at his log, I saw that his overall miss rate on attacks was some amazingly low % of like 4% - which is super nice.
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  18. #58
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    Location
    Los Angeles Area
    Posts
    398
    Good call on the crits and "misses". I don't know why I always forget to look at those stats.

    And thanks for again for all the help. I think I have pretty much hit my TPS ceiling.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    The calculator is very accurate. Omen shows threat on a shorter sampling period, it's several seconds at most, unlike the WWS parser which analyzes it from the moment you engage till the moment the mob dies. You're probably sustaining 1200-1500 most of the time, but any little lack of action for a while where you're rage starved and sitting at 800-900, really adds up, and that's why the OVERALL sustained is lower.
    Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!

    I recently got the expertise neck, so next time I tank Gorefiend I'll post the WWS and ask you advice for improving. Thanks again!

  20. #60
    Join Date
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    May be hiding in plain sight but I cannot see on WWS a option to show tps. :/
    Any idea where it is or do you lot actually calc. it yourself?

    Edit: Found it, sorry.

    Kind regards,
    Youkai.
    Last edited by Youkai; 02-13-2008 at 02:02 AM.
    Regards,
    Youkai

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