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Thread: 1k tps

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugthedum View Post
    How did it work?

    - His TPS output was very very high. He swung an epic two hander in defensive stance wearing Karazhan tanking gear, his spec has 3/3 defiance and 3/3 tactical mastery. His TPS was better than our feral druids had done. Therefore we got Gruul lower than we had ever done before, as we're melee heavy and our rogues do fantastic DPS. On a lesser fight like Moroes, he frequently out threats me doing this. Which would be bad if our healers didn't outgear the Moroes fight, because he's not wearing a shield. I typically have to tell him to slow down when he's doing this.

    - He died. Typically our OT dying is why we can't get past this fight. (a light goes on) We're going to try next time where he will mortal strike with a 2h three or four times to keep threat high, then swap to s&b and sunder armor until the mortal strike comes, then back to MS and so forth. He can't sustain MS'ing a one hander on Gruul, not enough rage - this is where the two hander comes in.

    Its great that he can generate that much threat with that spec but trying to OT Gruul w/o a shield is just asking for a wipe. Check deadwrongs post if you haven't, I'd add to remember hunters, Misdirect will really help raise the ceiling for the meleers.
    Last edited by Daimyo; 12-03-2007 at 09:26 AM. Reason: spelling

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimyo View Post
    Its great that he can generate that much threat with that spec but trying to OT Gruul w/o a shield is just asking for a wipe. Check deadwrongs post if you haven't, I'd add to remember hunters, Misdirect will really help raise the ceiling for the meleers.
    ^^ what he said!

    2 hunters using MD's on the OT in this fight is pure WIN! they get the dps in and you get the threat - everyone is a winner!

    remember that this fight is a DPS-race of sorts. you don't want him getting into the teens on his grows and you should be aiming to get him down by the early double-figures once you have him on farm.

    in that respect, the last thing you want is a rogue / arms warrior having to hold back on the dps in fear of passing the OT on the threat list.

    - DW

  3. #23
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    Well first of all....as a tank as long as you are holding aggro and dps doesn't have to hold back - you are doing fine. Here on Duskwood server i've heard and seen too many tanks and especially dps warriors that think they know about tanking insisting on +hit rating gems over stam/def gems and +agility enchants over stam enchants just for more TPS. They think 1k + TPS makes a good tank. You're doing fine with your threat. My advice is ask ur guildies (DPS) if they are holding back at all.

    As for Gruuls fight....i got cocky one time saying Gruuls is barely hitting me and didn't keep up shield block. Even with 22k HP Raid Buffed, 20% Dodge, 20% Parry and 30% Block, with 19k armor I died (partly healer problem too) but the point is....if I died with gettin lazy on shield block....a kara geared warrior using a 2hander is absurd imo. I average 750-850 TPS and i stay WELL above all our dps on Gruuls. THere is no need for a warrior to 2h fight this. IF by some chance melee are about to pull aggro which i really can't see this happening but they are insanely geared/good then tell them to hold back. Our guild downs Gruuls on average now 10-13 Grows....tanks/OT's threat is about 30-50k above the rest of the raid's. I think 2hand MAIN tanking is absurd in 25 mans for right now. I hear they are buffing arms/fury tree in the future though so we'll see then.

  4. #24
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    There is an excel spreadsheet on EJ forums about average TPS on a fight which will give you a good insight to actual TPS... I consider myself capable of doing 1k TPS for a decently sustained period of time but when looking at this spreadsheet it puts me around 900 TPS sustained for an entire fight. Which I can see because it factors in everything.

    link
    There is an updated one from another person with expertise near the end of the pages (page 7 post 161)

  5. #25
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    1ktps is extremely easy to keep at a consistent rate. I really don't understand especially with the +weapon expertise that has been added, almost every boss fight I can keep up to 1k-1100 tps and peaking sometimes around 14-1500. The peaks come from Shield Slam crits, but as for 1k tps it should be farely easy to keep at a sustainable rate.

  6. #26
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    Its all relative just like healing. How much TPS do you NEED? Enough so that DPS isn't threat capped, be it 800 sustained or 1200 sustained if you have some freaks in T6 gear. How much healing-per-second do you need? Enough to keep everyone topped off, mana regen, and a reserve for emergencies.

    When tanking, I seldom gear for threat because I have "enough" I look at who is in the raid, the nature of the encounter and I consider swapping in an item or two. I can touch 1K but more often than not, I will go for more stam, more mitigation, more avoidance before going threat. Granted, I'm in T4ish gear, perhaps a little better. My tank is not currently my raiding main but I'm MTing ZA and Kara.

    In T5 content, 1-1.2K DPS is pretty decent for most DPS classes. Factor in Salv and individual threat supression talents, etc.....How much TPS do you really need? And what are you willing to give up to get it?
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  7. #27
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    As far as your TPS is concerned, it may be a bit low, but it's totally fine for the gear you are wearing. TPS will go up when you get a new tanking weapon. If you really need more TPS, you can put a shaman in your party.

    As far as the offtank is concerned, the feral Druid should be the best offtank. If he is not, then he is failing you, and you should consider finding a new Feral. A few tips: in his likely gear, in the off-tank spot, he should be using lacerate only to keep up the bleed and spamming maul with his rage, while making sure to mangle and faerie fire feral on CD. That will get him maximum threat in a low rage situation.

    Your major problem in that WWS report is that you have 9 melee. Three are tanks, and that is fine. You can take three tanks if you want, but you should not ever have five rogues. The most rogues you ever want for any boss is two. The problem with so many in melee is that cave in will hit them all, and it also becomes harder to avoid shatter damage.

    This fight will be much easier for you if you get rid of three rogues and use a good feral druid off-tank. DPS warriors are for DPS.

  8. #28
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    Ya a shaman in the group will bump up TPS a good amount, but also others dps as well. I noticed a difference with a shaman and windfury totem up. I must say I have not looked at TPS for bosses, but for trash in Kara depending on the mob I got as low as around 700 and up to 1400. The most important thing like others have stated is to stay ahead of your raid, without them having to hold back, or maybe just a little. If you can do that, the TPS is just a guide to stay above that.

  9. #29
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    Thanks so much those who posted thoughtfully! Our rogues aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so we'll have to "bear" through it. We try to bring a feral to this fight; this week we did it with a feral and it went much better than with a prot OT. I find that feral OT's seem to have an easier time getting the TPS output than prot OTs do. This week we were back to shatter/silence/healing problems killing me, whereas when we tried doing this with an arms OT we were wiping when we lost him.

    BUT: thanks all for the advice; we typically forget to MD once the fight has started (putting that on the OT is a great idea), and I'm not sure they're buying rage potions.

    We won't likely do the arms/2hander thing again, though it was fun to try and technically should be feasible, I insist. If he got good at it, i think it's even a good idea. But obviously, the fight was more "designed" for either a feral OT or a prot OT focusing on gear that will help him build rage while still having staggering HP and armor.

    As for the question of "how much tps do you need?"

    Well, we've been languishing around the 10 man mark for ages now; and many of us have put lots of time in to craftable items - a few of our rogues and warlocks are indeed threat bound now for their potential DPS output. We're imbalanced, in that the rest of the guild is in a mix of greens, blues and kara purples, but our core group is as well geared as you can be farming HKM, Kara, S2, and craftables.

    My tps/gear/spec is solid, and as I am MT on Gruul I'm able to do plenty of tps - but the fight is OT bound, and we don't yet have a well geared OT that is dedicated to the task. We have a few warriors with excellent tank gear who show up every other week or so, an excellent feral who comes off an on, a few warriors with pretty good gear who will come every week and even put 20 points in to prot, but no solid well geared OT who is willing to commit.
    Last edited by thugthedum; 12-06-2007 at 03:04 PM.
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  10. #30
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  11. #31
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    Being able to push out higher TPS isn't just something for E-Peen meters or bragging rights, but it has realistic applications. Putting out a consistently high TPS, as high as you can muster without sacrificing real survivability, means you have more breathing room incase you do get a really bad streak and can't hit the mob(s) for a while.

    Also knowing how, and being able to, maximize your threat generation will really help you out if you're wearing resistance gear, and that greatly hampers your threat generating stats to begin with, so you want to know how to do the best you can to make up for it.

    At the high end level of raiding, people are also throwing out 2000+ DPS these days, and that's going to be at least 1000 tps for many classes.

    Expertise really helped out tanks, and now it's very easy for even a tank that isn't in endgame content to have a great threat suit. You can get the badge Expertise items, and then get the ring from Lower City exalted (Shapeshifter's Signet), and wear some hit in your gear, and you'll be off to a good start.

    Obviously just proper itemization isn't all it takes though and you need to be able to prioritize ability usage and not get yourself killed in the process.

    Here's a log of Teron Gorefiend I tanked and had over 1300 sustained TPS, without an optimal group or gear setup. (Wasn't hit capped, wasn't wearing full threat stuff, did not have Windfury, or get a Heroism, etc).

    Secure - WWS

    Put that URL in to here:
    Kenneth Gant Niebuhr - Online portfolie

    At this point, I'm going to see, for fun, how much higher I can get without using a shaman, or ridiculous consumables, etc.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Being able to push out higher TPS isn't just something for E-Peen meters or bragging rights
    I agree totally. Raid DPS = MT TPS * COUNT OF DPS.

    It's funny; even on a fight where Omen will report my tps around 650 at the end, our rogues will have pumped out 900 dps, and our locks and mages possibly well over 1k. Like I said, at least one or two of our dps'ers are threat bound. Hopefully getting in to the 25 man content will help.
    Melissa Theuriau is not a marmot.
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