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Thread: 1k tps

  1. #1
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    1k tps

    I see lots of posts talking about "I easily reach 1000 tps lol" and "I even get 1000 tps in my avoidance gear lol" and "lol only noobs do 999 tps lol".

    Well, I'm not a noob. So, are we exaggerating, or am I missing something?

    Let me take for example a HKM fight last night. I'm wearing what I call my "tankpoints" set - it's the gear that tankpoints rates highest for me. I get around 14890 unbuffed HP, 16000 armor, 24% dodge, 516 defense. It's not overly avoidance heavy or overly EH stacker, it's a mix. I get the standard expertise from defensive stance (sweet) and 4.79% hit (spicy talbuk FTW). I don't have a lot of SBV gear, so it was probably 325. I swing [item]King's Defender[/item] with Mongoose and equip the
    [item]Merciless Gladiator's Shield Wall[/item].

    Here's what I'm doing:

    Not that the opener matters, as it's only like 6 seconds of a 5 minute fight, but it's survival focused not TPS.

    Blood rage (hunter MD) -> shield block -> (HKM arrives) revenge -> whatever.

    This is plenty of threat to keep the healers and myself alive in the beginning of a hectic fight while guaranteeing uncrushability.

    After that, shield block spam, heroic strike spam (over 40 rage), and

    shield slam -> devastate -> devastate -> revenge

    Here's even a WWS from Gruul later the same night. Chances are I was doing something very similar.

    Wow Web Stats

    So I averaged about 600-700 tps by omen.

    Sure, if I really epeen out, skip shield blocks, get lots of heal threat (pom, etc), get great mongoose procs, use my gnomeregan trinket I can peak 1400 tps no problem; even sustain 950-1200. But that's not what usually happens. 600-700 tps is what happens usually, especially once a fight settles down and the initial spike from the devastate sunders are gone.

    I don't ever loose mobs; I get and keep control locked down; my total threat in omen is way over everyone else's most of the time. But I just don't see the 1k tps sustained that everyone seems to think is our birthright.

    Thoughts? Am I doing it wrong? Is it my noobishly low SBV? Is it that I don't have a pocket shaman keeping windfury totem on me? Or is this about right?





    Edit: I placed this in theory as I'm expecting a theoryish answer. Feel free to put it somewhere else, but please don't delete.
    Last edited by thugthedum; 11-26-2007 at 06:05 PM. Reason: explaining placement
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  2. #2
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    Nope, your looking at the 'facts' rather than the threat meter you sir earn a browney point !

    Fact is overstated tps is an epeen race, I can't do 1000 TPS on my paladin I can spike 1300 though depending on mob attack speed but it isn't my threat per second its a parse of point A and point B. Many fail to realise they aren't threat gods and will say they can do 1000 TPS when in actual fact they just got lucky with a shield slam and revenge hitting or critting in between the parse points of the threat meter ..

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicki View Post
    Nope, your looking at the 'facts' rather than the threat meter you sir earn a browney point !

    Fact is overstated tps is an epeen race, I can't do 1000 TPS on my paladin I can spike 1300 though depending on mob attack speed but it isn't my threat per second its a parse of point A and point B. Many fail to realise they aren't threat gods and will say they can do 1000 TPS when in actual fact they just got lucky with a shield slam and revenge hitting or critting in between the parse points of the threat meter ..
    That sums it up fairly well, the only way to calculate your sustained TPS is to do the math yourself through logs, most people are not anywhere near 1k sustained TPS

  4. #4
    Also if you want to see how long you can hold a 1k tps, don't use a skull boss like Gruul, the glancing blows and 9% miss cut into your threat. I can hover at or above 1k in my threat gear, on hard hitting trash that is lightly armored. :-) The trash before gruul is good for flexing epeen tps on lightly armored lvl 70-71 ogres, no shield block required.

  5. #5
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    <3 tankspot.

    So how do I look on WWS tho? I guess I'm afraid you will see my dirty secret: that I over spam demo shout and tclap because I can't tell if the boss is debuffed or not once the raid turns their attention to my mob.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugthedum View Post
    <3 tankspot.

    So how do I look on WWS tho? I guess I'm afraid you will see my dirty secret: that I over spam demo shout and tclap because I can't tell if the boss is debuffed or not once the raid turns their attention to my mob.
    Get debuff filter, a nice addon that lets u filter what u want to see and place it anywhere on your screen, works on both debuffs and buffs, on your target/yourself/focustarget.

    Debuff Filter | World of Warcraft @ Curse.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharr View Post
    Get debuff filter, a nice addon that lets u filter what u want to see and place it anywhere on your screen, works on both debuffs and buffs, on your target/yourself/focustarget.

    Debuff Filter | World of Warcraft @ Curse.com
    Also Natur's Enemy Cast bar can be set to give you timers in movable bars for debuffs. Most Unit frame mods have debuff filters as well.

  8. #8
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    Sustaining 1k TPS and more is definitely possible, but it depends a lot on gear and the encounter. 600-700 TPS in Kara/T4'ish gear on HKM is good and there is no reason at all to push it any higher, nobody is hitting him for a long time anyways.
    However, on a (mostly) straight forward tank and spank fight like Teron Gorefiend, 1200+ TPS is doable with the best possible threat gear and a threat oriented MT group with shaman, feral druid and Battle Shout. I would guess you can sustain as much as 1300-1400 TPS if you really use everything available, even a bit more if you don't Shield Block and just take the crushes. That's not really worth the risk though.

  9. #9
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    While I know I've seen a threat jump since the patch and the gear changes I've made, sustaining 1K TPS over many fights isn't generally likely or necessary. There will be bursts for as much as thirty seconds that I'll see 1100ish on Omen (and I know I wasn't getting frequent bursts like that pre-patch) for up to twenty or thirty seconds, but for most of the fights, I sit at around 700 to 800, maybe 900 if the boss just gives me ridiculous amounts of rage (like the no-crushers in ZA).

    High King Maulgar is not a threat-heavy fight. Your DPS has four mobs to kill before they get there, and that's a minute or so for you to build up aggro anyway. He hits pretty darn hard, and has some nasty specials that can hurt if you have bad streaks of non-avoidance. There's no benefit in going all out threat on him. Keeping up debuffs and Shield Block is a bit more important on a fight like this than a little threat-meter epeen.

    Dare I say watching threat meters is a good way to forget to debuff or Shield Block and potentially get yourself splatted? Sometimes, I think I should hide the Omen window during raids. The right amount of threat to generate is generally the amount that keeps you safely above your highest-threat DPS while killing the boss safely before an enrage timer elapses.

  10. #10
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    Here's what I see from the WWS report (looking at try 2 since it was the most total damage):

    You used you global cooldown for aggro generating abilities 84 times for a total of 2:06 used GCD time.

    You swung your 1.6 speed sword 130 times for a total of 3:28 of actually attacking him. We could probably round this number down some from procs etc.

    Two things I really see here are 1) You are attacking for 3:28 out of the 6:43 you lived. If your tps is 700 over the whole fight with that kind of percentage time actually on the mob, I'd say it's pretty good. 2) You could probably make better use of your attacking time to get more GCD based attacks in there (probably not the full 50% extra time, but maybe 30%). You definitely had the rage when you were HSing 2/3 the time.

  11. #11
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    I'm starting to see what you mean; I guess 6:43 - stone/shatter - missed attacks = 3:28

    On Gruul, I was probably not doing 700 tps. The OT's tps is the important one, I'd be more careful on Gruul, Stone/Shatter freezes my ability to attack quite a bit and so on. I think we actually had the OT trying mortal strike in defensive stance (he's arms) to get better tps on that attempt.

    I thought I had remembered that yellow damage couldn't be parried or dodged. I guess that was wrong, as WWS is showing that my heroic strikes are being dodge parried and blocked. (Would have been nice; if HS reduced Parry, it would essentially be avoidance.)
    Last edited by thugthedum; 11-27-2007 at 03:47 PM. Reason: rewrite
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  12. #12
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    For your debuffs, get Quartz. <3 Quartz. Swingtimer, debuffs, GCD meter, custom cast bar. It's good.
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  13. #13
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    I am trying to get an understanding for the value of shield blocks on uncrushing mobs like ZA. Is it worth it to use shield block even with no chance of crushing blows just for the extra rage from talent and the use of revenge, or are you better off skipping the shield block and spamming HS, shield slam, and devastate to keep sunders up?

    And for the record, I too am usually around 700ish tps for boss fights that I pay attention to tps, with spikes here and there, but nothing to brag about, and I really don't see the need for 1000 plus tps during most boss encounters where other skills help play a bigger role in survivability.

  14. #14
    Shieldblock on hard hitting bosses in ZA is still worth it assuming you aren't rage starved... and since those bosses hit like trucks you aren't

    It is still pretty effective mitigation.
    The beast is getting hungrier.

  15. #15
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    While I agree that there certainly is a lot of epeen and unverified reports of people sustaining 1k+ of tps with their eyes closed I thinkit is doable on many boss fights since 2.3. I averaged 892 on the last VR fight I did. Considering the knock back cycles where your getting a lot less rage and his higher armor (we do still get plenty of our threat from damage), I had to be sustaining much higher than that when he was targeted on me.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugthedum View Post
    I think we actually had the OT trying mortal strike in defensive stance (he's arms) to get better tps on that attempt.
    Out of curiosity how did that work. i'm a 33/5/23, and only doing 10 mans at the minute (where it works out fine), but my guild may do 25 mans soonish and i'm wondering if it will be a viable spec, because it feels quite low threat (450-750ish, although i'm still using a blue weapon) and i feel like its only an act of kindness that i'm ever taken over a feral druid.

  17. #17
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    How did it work?

    - His TPS output was very very high. He swung an epic two hander in defensive stance wearing Karazhan tanking gear, his spec has 3/3 defiance and 3/3 tactical mastery. His TPS was better than our feral druids had done. Therefore we got Gruul lower than we had ever done before, as we're melee heavy and our rogues do fantastic DPS. On a lesser fight like Moroes, he frequently out threats me doing this. Which would be bad if our healers didn't outgear the Moroes fight, because he's not wearing a shield. I typically have to tell him to slow down when he's doing this.

    - He died. Typically our OT dying is why we can't get past this fight. (a light goes on) We're going to try next time where he will mortal strike with a 2h three or four times to keep threat high, then swap to s&b and sunder armor until the mortal strike comes, then back to MS and so forth. He can't sustain MS'ing a one hander on Gruul, not enough rage - this is where the two hander comes in.
    Last edited by thugthedum; 12-02-2007 at 12:20 PM. Reason: fact checking
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  18. #18
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    thanks, thats cheered me up some, been having doubts about it recently because of these sorts of situations, i did moroes this way and didnt seem to have the threat problems i sometimes have (also a two hander to sword and board macro really helps) but i didnt have time to look at my combat log to see what my tps was.

    (btw if he doesnt have enough rage i hear sitting in cave ins can help)

  19. #19
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    Actually, doing some math, in a "boss has no armor, tank always hits, boss never avoids, endless rage" scenario, it looks like Mortal Striking with a [item]King's Defender[/item] can do about 931 tps with 3/3 TM 3/3 Defiance.

    Edit: in future, I shall refer to this as "EBITDA".
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  20. #20
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    having both MT and OT'd Gruul here's a few tips which hopefully will help you guys:

    - MT should never really find themselves rage starved. he's hitting for a LOT, so just use a standard shot rotation (SS / Rev / Dev / Dev), interweave with SB whenever this is up and throw in HS when rage is 40 or above. i found that due to the damage he did i was adding in HS's c70% of the time.

    - as the OT i have always gone S+B with max SBV and stacked a couple of DPS items in the mix. getting rage starved is the killer here so here's how i got round that:

    * wait till the MT is in and intervene him to start, take a couple of hits and hello rage!
    * [Mighty Rage Potions] were chained.
    * use the cave-in to generate rage (though not at the expense of your life!)
    * intervene the MT after EVERY shatter. as well as the + rage you get to land a couple of Revenge's which is great.
    * likihood is that you'll be laying down TC / DS / CS to help the MT out. if you have DPS warriors in the squad - get them to take over these duties to free up your rage.
    * for shot rotation it was simply a mix of SS and Dev's. i use the autoblocker trinket so make sure you have a full rage bar when that is about to pop and get 4 x SS's in with the +200 extra SBV.

    HTH!

    - DW

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