OK I've been running Kara lately with a good but lesser geared (off) tank.
How hard/easy should it be to steal aggro from another protection warrior?
Not that is a huge deal, but I'm finding that he can often steal aggro from me towards the beginning of a fight, and if I'm lucky I can get it back. (This assumes I only get one Slam or sunder in before he attacks). Conversly, I can't seem to snag aggro from targets he hits first....
Up until last night he was using the [Vindicator Brand] (spelling - The aldor sword) and I have the [King's Defender]. He got his defender last night.
Am I doing something wrong? What is he doing so right that he CAN often steal aggro? (FYI: I don't stance dance and he MIGHT).
FYI: I only have 30 less attack power and have 6% more crit chance.
Well I never lose against an OT. except for Moroes, but we use the same gear, so it doesn't matter much :P.
Carefish - Fury Warrior - Chromaggus EU
At the beginning of the fight unlucky misses/parry/dodges, lucky crits, rage starvation/a full rage bar can all contribute to a mob swopping between two tanks - assuming both in tank gear and def stance that is.
**Give me a hug and I'll defend you with my life**
If you're supposed to be MT, then the OT needs to wait like the DPSers do, although it's not as important, better the OT get aggro than a squishy. If you miss an opening Shield Slam, or whatever, then anyone can take that aggro from you, not just the OT.
Is it possible that the OT is 'jealous' and is trying to steal your thunder? This can happen sometimes, and it's bad mojo for a group for the tanks to not work together.
What are the rotations you're using? If you're both using the same rotations than it should be near impossible for him to steal aggro. 99% of the time OT's are rage starved because they're not getting hit, so your OT should be waiting for you to at least land a Shield Slam.
higher hitrating, shieldblock value, better threat rotation?
Otherwise switch the roles or tell your OT to wait a little bit more, but you really shouldn't loose your mob as you get the first hit and that means you have a lot more rage than the OT.
Edit: and the OT can't put Revenge in his rotation as he isn't attacked by your mob, so can't dodge/block.
yeah try and switch and see what happands. Maybe it works better anyway.
Carefish - Fury Warrior - Chromaggus EU
I might just ask what he's doing different and ask him wait a few secs like the DPS.
BTW I have like 2.5k more HP so role reversal only works on trash mobs. Though we've been doing well last few weeks. (Good healers certainly helps!!)
It's more of an annoyance that a threat to the group...
I usually MT the kara runs I got on and I have what I consider excellent threat generation which will only be better once I get my autoblocker.
If I lose threat in a pull to the OT it's either because I had 3 misses or the OT jumped the gun and hit him with something before I did.
If I care or not depends on the OT. If it's someone I know can tank it without dieing or holding back the dps on threat I don't try and take it back and rather look towards getting the next pull started while they are working on the one they are tanking. If I care it's usually because they lack experience and/or gear and I tell them it's their job not to pull agro unless I ask them to.
Are you holding on to rage between pulls ?
If your group has good tempo you should be able to finish each pull at 50+, then use Bloodrage to stop you going out of combat.
I can pull aggro off the MT but I don't do it. With one exception, If I find myself becoming rage starved, he knows I'll pull higher than him briefly then hold back. We're talking about a 2-3 second switch there.
It's his job to MT and I should do my job as OT and stay second. IF my RL wants me to tank a boss, I'll be told. Other than that, know your job!
A lot of the lesser experienced tanks/OT feels it's their duty to taunt every mobs and their mom with every taunt cooldown.
It's just a matter of educating your tanks in the tank chat channel or guild forums.
He probably has more shield block value. Secondly if he's getting in a revenge after his SS while you're not using revenge right after, that's another reason. After the initial barrage, he shouldn't be able to keep up, as he should be rage starved.
I second the fact he should be waiting, but maybe him not waiting will make you a better tank. =)
nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|VG|WoW|DF]
[A-USPVP] <Ch 4 News Team> ICC 10m Recruiting!: Hlr Prst, Hly Pal, Mge, Lock
For a while, I ran kara with a (pal) OT who would get bored or something, and would throw his highest aggro move (shield throw? I don't know wtf paladins do) on every mob I pulled right before I could actually touch it. Obviously, I'm not building much rage when stuff isn't turned on me, so here's how I would handle it:
1.) TALK TO THE OT about being stupid. Do it in as nice of a way as you can to convey why what he/she is doing is not the right way to handle a pull, why it slows down the raid, why it's creating more danger for everyone, and why it's wasting everyone's time. Suggest alternate things he can do with his mana and/or boredom, and emphasize that it's nothing personal.
When this doesn't work (it won't, but IMO, talking to them first is the right thing to do...), you have a couple of options. You can let him get the raid wiped, or just make every pull take longer, or you can step up and just take the damn thing back and never let him get aggro again (without taunting):
1.) don't touch taunt just yet. Let him hold it for the sec or 2 it will take you to have enough rage for SS and HS.
2.) once you have enough rage for SS and HS, hit taunt, queue HS, hit SS. Go through normal threat rotation, mob should be locked on you - the OT did you a favor by building some free threat for you, if not wasting a little of your time.
I usually don't taunt off another tank unless a mob is about to kill them, or they are tanking multiples and I know it's likely to get loose, or I have a ton of rage saved up and I know I can taunt and HOLD THE MOB without trouble. If any of those aren't the case, I just let another tank hold the mob and save up rage (and my taunt cooldown) for a rainy day.
You can also check to make sure your rotation gives you the most threat you can generate. If you don't already know, there are many great posts about rotation on this site.