Protection DPS

[Horgar]

I think the argument could be made the lack of 5% parry in an OT dps build

Why be 41 pts prot in an OT dps build? Go 0/41/21 or something close to that and do almost true fury dps (just missing a couple pure dps talents like impale, deep wounds, and maybe imp ww or imp dw). This gives you a higher dps potential before hitting threat cap and better dps while still giving defiance and, if you so choose, TM which adds some TPS now to a offspec build.

Before 2.3 I could hold about 500tps avg as 0/41/20. Post 2.3 should offer a bit of a boost on that. For non-primary kill target or with some MD help that should be plenty and you have the most important mitigation boosts from prot.

[Taelas]

The issue with Prot DPS builds, is that you'll be picking up lots of talents that don't benefit DPS. You simply can't avoid picking up tank-only talents while trying to fill out the Prot tree to Devastate.

Since a 0/20/41 build lacks Deflection, it's not a build for serious tanking. And if you're not serious about spec'ing for tanking, then a normal Arms or Fury build is better damage in the long run.

A similar argument could be made for not having Imp TC, although you could in theory have another warrior on that duty.

As long as you have above 25% total avoidance+block, it's not a significant loss.

You can tank pretty much anything with 20/41. If you are mostly in an OT/DPS role, but occasionally end up as MT, it's better than full Fury. Full Fury just does not have the TPS necessary for tanking raids.

[Nuberino]

Why be 41 pts prot in an OT dps build? Go 0/41/21 or something close to that and do almost true fury dps (just missing a couple pure dps talents like impale, deep wounds, and maybe imp ww or imp dw). This gives you a higher dps potential before hitting threat cap and better dps while still giving defiance and, if you so choose, TM which adds some TPS now to a offspec build.

Norrath answered it pretty much on the dime. Both are probably appropriate for different situations, but if an OT can almost match full dps's dps while still almost matching a mt's tanking ability I think that is a viable build.

[Naka]

The other night i was discussing prot dps with two of my tank mates. Couldn't convince them, that Dualwielding with Devestate will most certainly be better than Shield Slamming in BV gear, as i didn't have any numbers.

Could anyone do some simple math for me to prove that or just point me to the right spot?

[Taelas]

If they want to DPS, they need to wear DPS gear, which completely nullifies any benefits there is to using Shield Slam due to the lack of block value. BV gear for upping Shield Slams is basically Prot PvP gear, it is *not* DPS gear.

Even if you hit for 1000 with a Shield Slam every 6 seconds (which is not likely due to the lack of rage generation), the loss in white damage, crit rate, hit rate, etc. is just... not... worth it.

[Melange]

Okay, I have a two questions:
1) How much damage can Prot DPS do?
2) How much threat does Prot DPS do?

Our most recent kill was Gorefiend, and one of the warriors was forced to put up sunders, because we had a paladin tanking. I figure it might be better to have the warrior go prot DPS, so he can spam Devastate. I said on vent that we should do prot DPS, and everyone thought I was joking.

I was doing about 1100 DPS on average. I did not have salv, and the paladin had a 20-30% lead on my threat at all times. So I figure he was doing around 1000 TPS average. Is that enough threat, so that the warrior can spam Devastate? The warrior would have salv and would not have windfury. Would he do more damage this way, or full DPS-spec, keeping up sunder?

Now that we have killed him, without issues, I don't see it likely that anyone will want to try any change in strat, but it would be nice to know.

I was thinking a build something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

BTW, single-tank fights are retarded. Forces most guilds to respec 2-3 people, or switch who is in the raid.

[Taelas]

With good Fury gear, I've heard of 900+ sustained DPS from Protection warriors in Hyjal.

He will do significant threat, however. All of his DPS moves have increased threat in some manner (Heroic Strike and Devastate have threat mods, while Whirlwind is not affected by the threat reduction of Berserker Stance).

I cannot see that he would do more DPS than a Fury warrior keeping up Sunders, though.

[derrida]

I've been trying to dps as prot whenever i get the chance recently. This is entirely anecdotal, but i managed 1550 dps on shade of aran in karazhan. 6dev->ww with a lot of heroic rage dumping. I managed 1100 on a rage(no melee d&d) in hyjal.

Unbuffed stats are 1900 AP 29.5% crit 140 hit rating and -1000 passive armor pen. Siphon/rod of sun king.

Rage is a decent benchmarking npc. The terminal geared feral druids were doing 1250-1400 dps.

I think there is a meta question here that hasn't really been discussed, specifically, what should the dps potential of a pure tanking spec'd warrior(something on the order of 9/5/47) be?

I think a comparison to feral druids provides the best baseline for answering it insofar as they are already widely accepted as dps/tanking hybrids.

[Melange]

Derrida, some questions.

1) When you were doing 1100 DPS, can you figure out how much TPS you were doing, or link the WWS?

2) Is 9/5/47 your actual build, as in you have not checked to see how much you could do with 17/3/41?

3) Is it really fair to compare against feral druid, when we are supposed to be hybrid, and prot is not?

[Taelas]

Impale is not that great a part of your total DPS. It is a marginal increase for too much utility, especially since you're dumping points from Cruelty.

[Rayther]

Hey guys,
First off, great site! It's been quite useful to myself and others in my guild.

I have a question for those who have tried prot dps since the WW change, regarding the speed of the off-hand.
I have played with a fast off-hand and I've been able to hold my own when I need to dps, but the slow obviously has theoretically higher damage output due to WW. However, has anyone tried this, and if so, does it generate enough rage to devistate on every cooldown?

I'm currently looking at getting either the [item]Akil'zon's Talonblade[/item] or [item]Fury[/item]. Has anyone got experience with either of these?

Thanks,
Rayther

(and sorry about pulling a bit of a necro )

[Vakfaroosh]

I have the Talonblade and it is good rage Gen, previously I had malacazeen, and the talon blade up my dps as prot by about 25.

I think passive haste helps a ton. In dps gear on prince last night (hey we all need badges), I was at 755 dps with Decap and Talonblade.