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Thread: Solarian's sapphire

  1. #1
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    Solarian's sapphire

    [item]Solarian's Sapphire[/item]

    Does this item hold any merit for protection warrior use? Our first Solarian kill I was the only warrior present, and picked it up due to default; however, I'm having a hard time finding a purpose for equipping it. Currently, I use [item]Darkmoon Card: Vengeance[/item] and the [item]Spyglass of the Hidden Fleet[/item], so the Sapphire would prove a downgrade overall in stamina from the others.

    How important does the additional attack power play in out in threat generation? I'm not put in the melee group, so expecting any group synergy benefit from it isn't realistic. Does the additional attack power help at all? Or would even the proc from the furies deck beat out the extra AP overall?

  2. #2
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    if you're not in the melee group you should be doing commanding shout, and thus, that trinket should be banked till you go fury =P

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  3. #3
    If fury warrior is not available, usually an offtank is put into melee group. Then it is absolutely useful, since the prot warrior may not have the commanding presence and this trinket would make up for it. Even better if he has both.

    But as a fury warrior, I will not use this easily ;p. Somebody will have to talk me into doing this, and has to put effort into that. Ok, I know all that synergy, group, blah blah things, but at the end of the day a raid leader looks at the damage meters. And I dont want any item on me that reduces my dps.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morthengel View Post
    If fury warrior is not available, usually an offtank is put into melee group. Then it is absolutely useful, since the prot warrior may not have the commanding presence and this trinket would make up for it. Even better if he has both.

    But as a fury warrior, I will not use this easily ;p. Somebody will have to talk me into doing this, and has to put effort into that. Ok, I know all that synergy, group, blah blah things, but at the end of the day a raid leader looks at the damage meters. And I dont want any item on me that reduces my dps.
    I feel sorry for that raid leader.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morthengel View Post
    If fury warrior is not available, usually an offtank is put into melee group. Then it is absolutely useful, since the prot warrior may not have the commanding presence and this trinket would make up for it. Even better if he has both.

    But as a fury warrior, I will not use this easily ;p. Somebody will have to talk me into doing this, and has to put effort into that. Ok, I know all that synergy, group, blah blah things, but at the end of the day a raid leader looks at the damage meters. And I dont want any item on me that reduces my dps.
    You would rather not benefit your group and yourself with 70 AP constantly? I'm sorry, but let's see, once you've killed Solarion, the other trinkets you would probably have access to are the DST, maybe the Tsunami Talisman, then the pre-raid trinkets, Hourglass, Abacus, and BLB. For myself, I have the Abacus and the Hourglass. (I would like the BLB, but I need a few nethers to up my Drakefist) My point is, unless you had a DST and a Tsunami Talisman (then it would be a hard choice on what to give up) Sapphire wins out automatically vs most of the pre-raid trinkets because your rogues/ferals/enh. shaman will also benefit.

    And if the raid leader just looks at damage meters and not the details of the fight, you need a new Raid Leader. He seems like the type that judges solely on damage and not if outside factors happened, like if you get graved 5 times on Tidewalker, that's gonna hurt your DPS a lot.

    For example, my last VR kill, I sustained an average 650 dps. To anyone else, they would think I suck. But looking at the actual fight, they would have known I was riding all three tanks on threat, sometimes passing the #3 tank on occasions, and the next KB would probably point VR in my direction. (eventually VR did point my way and I got stomped at 1%, due to timing my Reck a little too early) My group was also 2 rogues, 1 feral druid, 1 BM hunter. (we have no enh. shaman to give us sexy WF, and it was either that, or our Arms Warrior, and with a feral giving the pet LotP, FI had good uptime) For that fight, that Sapphire would have been better than my Abacus for OVERALL RAID DPS because while I'm sitting threat-capped, the rogues can take that 70 AP and go harder because they have a higher threat ceiling than warriors.

    Now to convince my RL to give Solarion a try. Endless Tidewalker wipes are not so good.

  6. #6
    Misunderstanding: I don't say I will never use it.

    But I am really not inclined to use it since I work really hard and sweat my ass off to sustain a dps on par with our rogues, and accomplished this. I think being on top 3 of the meters AND being able to offtank things should be good enough reason to ask for this.

    Currently I am using brooch and abacus. And they are on cooldown. All the time.

    Also you can not imagine how they help when you engage things with an empty rage bar, no flurry, no procs, no rampage.

    Well, if we had 4 rogues in melee group, fine, could benefit a lot. But usually we have 2.

    @ Orokosaki: that comment was very lame. You don't need to feel sad about our raid leader.
    Last edited by Morthengel; 11-04-2007 at 01:34 AM.

  7. #7
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    Personally I would agree with Mort here - *imo* fury warriors have the most difficult time out of all classes justifying their presence (excluding ret pallies - sry all those unhealing AV's where we actually tanked while you watched us die - you're condemned forever in my book).

    No one ever really looks at /switch def stance - /disarm - /berserker stance. Or the constant application of demo shout to save the main tank a GCD. The one and only thing a fury warrior has is that DMG chart - and has to do everything in his power to be on top of it (often requiring elixirs / flasks even for trash).

    Personally I'm in a guild that doesn't even bother windfurying warrior tank (let alone any rogues or fury warriors). It's run by casters / druids - and although I have the statistics to back up windfury, it's simply never present in our raids. Arguing about it just stirs more problems than it solves. I don't understand why other classes think that only enhancement shamans can drop windfury totems (it's not like the enhancement shamans want to anyways). It's just really difficult getting invites from time-to-time and when I do get invited I know it's because of my position on that Dmg chart.

    So in regards to [item]Solarian's Sapphire[/item] - I wouldn't really want to use it either. Just about any other /crit or chance to proc or [item]Abacus of Violent Odds[/item] - even lvl 70 blue items appeal to me more than that trinket.

    Really the only time that trinket would seamingly appeal to me (i have a 0/47/14 build) - is when I'm tanking trash/heroic instance - the extra ap and stam combined actually are useful for that.
    Last edited by jword; 11-04-2007 at 01:52 AM.
    http://www.tankspot.com/signatures/u...wolf/image.jpg
    Don't bash the stats - I'm fury now - still doesn't change the fact I tank from time-to-time.

  8. #8
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    Just for quick reference for anyone who is wondering. If you have 5/5 Commanding Presence, [item]Solarian's Sapphire[/item], and 5/5 Improved Berserker Stance, your battle shout would give YOU 517 AP and the rest of your party about 480 AP.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alchamire View Post
    Just for quick reference for anyone who is wondering. If you have 5/5 Commanding Presence, [item]Solarian's Sapphire[/item], and 5/5 Improved Berserker Stance, your battle shout would give YOU 517 AP and the rest of your party about 480 AP.
    True - but the trinket itself still only gives a 70 attack power bonus regardless of spec.
    http://www.tankspot.com/signatures/u...wolf/image.jpg
    Don't bash the stats - I'm fury now - still doesn't change the fact I tank from time-to-time.

  10. #10
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    I bring a fury warrior tto every raid, however, if he had the attitude of "I would rather top the meters than increase raid dps as a whole" I would not. Just like I would not bring a mage, or a warlock, or any other dps with this attitude.

    Raiding is not about your dps, its about our dps.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jword View Post
    True - but the trinket itself still only gives a 70 attack power bonus regardless of spec.
    I am not quite sure what you are trying to say here really. "ONLY 70 AP"... Trust me, your rogues and enhance shammies will love you for it, even if it is "ONLY" 70 AP... Think of the AP that it gives the other four members of your party. With 5/5 Commanding Pressence and this "ONLY 70 AP" addition you are giving your party (including yourself) a total of 2437 AP (if you have imp zerker stance) or 170 DPS. So you can say that it only gives you 70 AP, but the amount of DPS it provides for your raid is huge. Damage meters aren't always everything in a raid. If you refuse to use something that benifets your raid group because you are worried that it will give somebody else a number one spot on the damage meters instead of you, thats just plain selfish and it really isn't looking out for your raid/guilds best interest.
    Armory! And when Armory is down... Warcrafter!

    Bloody knuckles, carving the path to freedom.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jword View Post
    True - but the trinket itself still only gives a 70 attack power bonus regardless of spec.
    Actually, the trinket itself gives 87.5 attack power with Commanding Presence.

  13. #13
    Edit: I deleted my post because this discussion is getting a bit overheated.
    Last edited by Morthengel; 11-05-2007 at 06:35 AM.

  14. #14
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    Saying you wouldn't want this trinket because it would help the raid more than yourself is the most selfish thing I've ever heard (regarding WoW.) You cannot solo raids. There are 24 other people counting on you to help them as much as possible. If you were arms, would you not spec into Blood Frenzy because it only boosted your DPS by 4%?

    Seriously if I was your GM Mort, and I saw this post, I would gkick you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syana View Post
    Actually, the trinket itself gives 87.5 attack power with Commanding Presence.

    Correct. And endgame raiding is all about synergy. This trinket in the melee group is without equal.

  16. #16
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    100% agreed,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  17. #17
    Pfff, why did you have to wake my conciouss (spelling!) up...Yeh, I think in some way I have to pay back for the enh Shaman constantly in my group giving me windfury, unleashed rage, wf, etc..

    I am in a great guild now, and I think I'll take the Saphirre back from my bank... I was so frustrated in my previous guild (they had 2-3 melee spots...including rogues oO), I stopped using this trinket to maximize myself so that I could earn the raid spot.

    On a sidenote, I thought this trinket as 70AP, didn't know it was getting bonus from commanding presence. So I think I'll be using it again...

    So, with imp zerker stance, will this improve my attack power by, err, ~95?

  18. #18
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    Seems about right Morth. Actually, with an Enh. Shaman, forgive my guestimate, but would UR give 7 more AP for Sapphire? Small benefit, but it's great synergy.

    I just wish mine didn't leave /cry. I guess I'll stick with the BM hunter.

    EDIT: That's kinda sad to hear morth, with your previous guild caster heavy. Who would they stick in your group beside the other melee?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morthengel View Post
    Pfff, why did you have to wake my conciouss (spelling!) up...Yeh, I think in some way I have to pay back for the enh Shaman constantly in my group giving me windfury, unleashed rage, wf, etc..

    I am in a great guild now, and I think I'll take the Saphirre back from my bank... I was so frustrated in my previous guild (they had 2-3 melee spots...including rogues oO), I stopped using this trinket to maximize myself so that I could earn the raid spot.

    On a sidenote, I thought this trinket as 70AP, didn't know it was getting bonus from commanding presence. So I think I'll be using it again...

    So, with imp zerker stance, will this improve my attack power by, err, ~95?
    Sad that they put you in that position. It they don't understand how important dps warriors are to end game raiding, it's their loss. Fury/MS, BF, Adding 470 AP to at least 2-3 rogues and a enhancement Shaman and +4% physical damage. IMO, these 2 things are nicest group dps buffs in end game raiding currently (especially if you have uber rogues, which all legit endgame guilds do)

    What about dps buffs on the feral druid's target, dps warriors, put sunder up, Imp Demo shout, etc, etc the list goes on

    For all accounts, dps warriors should never be in the top 5 on damage, that shouldn't be expected from them. When we do crack the top 5, it's just icing on the cake and a testiment to that warrior's play. Last night I hit 3rd on Solarian, while providing that 470 AP to the melee group, and sundering/pummeling one of the priests on those phases.

    If you have to justify to your GM that their should be a dps in the raid, they know little about this game. In closing, I'm not saying you need dps warriors in raids to succeed, I'm saying it makes it a lot easier

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morthengel View Post
    Pfff, why did you have to wake my conciouss (spelling!) up...Yeh, I think in some way I have to pay back for the enh Shaman constantly in my group giving me windfury, unleashed rage, wf, etc..

    I am in a great guild now, and I think I'll take the Saphirre back from my bank... I was so frustrated in my previous guild (they had 2-3 melee spots...including rogues oO), I stopped using this trinket to maximize myself so that I could earn the raid spot.

    On a sidenote, I thought this trinket as 70AP, didn't know it was getting bonus from commanding presence. So I think I'll be using it again...

    So, with imp zerker stance, will this improve my attack power by, err, ~95?
    Sad that they put you in that position. It they don't understand how important dps warriors are to end game raiding, it's their loss. Fury/MS, BF, Adding 470 AP to at least 2-3 rogues and a enhancement Shaman and +4% physical damage. IMO, these 2 things are nicest group dps buffs in end game raiding currently (especially if you have uber rogues, which all legit endgame guilds do)

    What about dps buffs on the feral druid's target, dps warriors, put sunder up, Imp Demo shout, etc, etc the list goes on

    For all accounts, dps warriors should never be in the top 5 on damage, that shouldn't be expected from them. When we do crack the top 5, it's just icing on the cake and a testiment to that warrior's play. Last night I hit 3rd on Solarian, while providing that Battle Shout to the melee group, and sundering/pummeling one of the priests on those phases.

    If you have to justify to your GM that their should be a dps warrior in the raid, they know little about this game. In closing, I'm not saying you need dps warriors in raids to succeed, I'm saying it makes it a lot easier

    Yes, it will improve your AP by 96.25 to be percise in Imp Serk Stance.

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