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Thread: 2.3: Passive Uncrushability without BT/Hyjal gear

  1. #1
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    2.3: Passive Uncrushability without BT/Hyjal gear

    This is my plan for achieving passive uncrushability without any gear from Hyjal or BT. It uses ZA gear, heroic badge gear, and gear from T5 or even T4 instances.

    The goal is to be uncrushable, and still have as much Stamina, Armor, Expertise, and Block Value as possible in that gear. I want the expertise becaue its so goof for threat generation.

    To achieve passive uncrushability we need combined Miss+Dodge+Parry+Block of 102.4%.

    Bsae values are (350 defense/naked/standard talents):

    Miss: 5%
    Dodge: Around 3.8% with base level 70 agility. This varies with race.
    Parry: 10% (with deflection)
    Block: 10% (with shield spec)

    Imp Druid mark will give 18 agi, and blessing of kings will be +10% (around 11 more). Thats about .87% more dodge, and 10% more agi from all gear.

    5/5 Anticipation = 20 defense skill = 3.2%

    This brings us to a base of: 32.87% (Probably 32.5 - 33.0% depending on race)


    WEAPON: Mallet of the Tides (Lurker) w/Mongoose

    16 defense rating (1.08%)

    The expertise here makes this the weapon of choice, pre-BT.
    You could go 20 agi enchant, which would give a consistent .67% dodge, but mongoose is better, and we'll be uncrushable with the listed gear anyway.


    SHIELD: ZA Shield (Bulwark of the Amani Empire) w/15 Block Rating

    19 Block rating (2.42%)
    15 Block rating (chant) (1.91%)

    R socket.

    If you get uncrushability without this enchat, you can replace it with 18 stam.

    4.33% contribution.


    RANGED: Gyro Balanced Khorium Destroyer (8 def or 4def/6stam gem) OR Crystalline Crossbow (12 Agi/11 Hit)

    Khorium Destroyer w/8 def gem is .54% contribution
    Crystalline is .40% contribution and 11 hit rating, but less stam.

    .54% contrubtion (Khorium)


    HELM: ZA Helm (Battleworn Tuskguard) w/Glyph of Defender:
    40 Block rating (5.07%)
    23 Dodge rating (1.21%)
    17 dodge rating (chant) (.90%)
    16 defense rating (chant) (1.08%)
    R/Y/B sockets

    This is the clear choice due to high uncrushable contribution, and high stam/BV.

    8.26% total contribution not counting gems (which we'll do later)


    NECK: 2.3 Heroic Badge Neck (Brooch of Deftness)

    This is for the expertise and hit rating. No contribution to crush immune.
    Hoever, if youre short, this would be a way to swap in a defense/dodge neck like Barbed Choker, to get close to 102.4%


    SHOULDERS: ZA Shoulders (Pauldrons of Stone Resolve) w/Aldor Scryer exalted enchant)

    31 Block rating w/socket bonus (3.93%)
    20 defense (1.35%)

    The enchant 1.47% more if your Aldor, 1.54% is Scryer. I'll use 1.47% since I'm aldor, and theyre very close.

    These are the clear choice due to having the most uncrushability, plus high stam and BV.

    6.75% total contribution.


    CLOAK: 2.3 Badge reward cloak (Slikk's Cloak of Placation) w/12 Agi.

    16 Defense (1.08%)
    25 Dodge (1.32%)
    12 Agi (.40%) w/Kings

    This are great for effective health and for crush immune.

    2.80% total contribution


    CHEST: T4 Chest w/150 health

    23 Block rating (2.92%)
    22 Defense (1.49%)
    4 Dodge (socket bonus) (.21%)
    17 Agi (.57%)

    Y/Y/R sockets

    Other good choices here are Panzarthar, T5, or ZA chests. However T4, socketed with defense/stam and dodge/stam (epic) gems, is the best for uncrushable while also having the most block value. But I wouldnt blame someone for using T5 or ZA over it, they just will need to adjust a little elsewhere.

    5.19% total contribution.


    BRACERS: 2.3 Badge reward bracers (Bracers of Ancient Phalanx) w/12 Def

    22 Defense (1.49%)
    12 Defense (chant) (.81%)

    I couldnt pass up the 23 expertise on these, its just so good. But the Void Reaver bracers are also a great choice, if youre a bit short.

    2.30% contribution.


    HANDS: T5 Hands w/15 Agi

    33 Block Rating (4.18%)
    25 Defense (1.69%)
    16 Agi (.53%)
    15 Agi (chant) (.50%)

    No other reasonable choice here. And they have 44 block value.

    6.90% contribution


    BELT: Leotheras Belt

    22 Defense (1.49%)
    19 Dodge (1.01%)
    29 Parry (1.28%)

    R/B socket

    3.78% contribution


    LEGS: ZA Legs (Unwavering Legguards) w/40 stam + 12 agi

    30 Block rating (3.80%)
    22 Defense (1.49%)
    12 agi (chant) (.40%)

    R/B/Y sockets

    While the T5 legs give more contribution to uncrushable, they have a TON less stam and block value. ZA legs are the best choice imo, but if youre short you could go with T5.

    5.69% contirubtion


    FEET: ZA feet (Jungle Stompers) w/ 9 stam + Run Speed

    28 Block Rating (3.55%)
    20 Defense (1.35%)

    B socket

    No other reasonable choices, this has a great contribution to uncrushable and 47 block value with the socket.

    4.90% contribution


    RING1: ZA speed run reward ring (Signet of the Last Defender)

    28 Block Rating (3.55%)

    With high stam/block rating/block value, this is a clear choice.

    3.55% contribution.


    RING2: Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen (Eye trash drop)

    24 Block rating (3.04%)
    17 defense (1.15%)

    Stam/block rating/defense/block value, the other very clear choice.

    4.19% contribution.


    TRINKET1: Hydross Trinket (Scarab of Displacement)

    42 Defense rating (2.84%)

    With the gear setup I had, I found I was short on defense, and the 42 defense was the boost I needed to bet uncrittable (which is still important for times when youre stunned or your back turned). The avoidance it gives is also much more useful than using a block rating trinket, and its on use effect gives even more avoidance, for scary times.

    2.84% contribution


    TRINKET2: Styleen's Impending Scarab (BWL)

    24 Block rating (3.4%)
    20 Defense (1.35%)

    If you dont have this, you can use a block rating trinket instead (Figurine of the Colossus), or another defense rating trinket, or you can make other changes to get you closer to uncrushability, and use a stamina trinket or autoblocker.

    4.75% contribution


    Total:

    ~32.5% base (Deflection/Anticipation/Shield Spec/Druid Buff/Kings)

    1.08 weapon
    4.33 shield
    0.54 ranged (or .4% crystalline, or .27% 4 def/6stam gem in Khorium)
    8.26 helm
    0.00 neck
    6.75 shoulders
    2.80 cloak
    5.19 chest
    2.30 bracer
    6.90 hands
    3.78 belt
    5.69 legs
    4.90 feet
    3.55 ring
    4.19 ring
    2.84 trink
    4.75 trink

    Thats 67.85% from items, not counting gems.


    5 Red sockets
    4 Yellow sockets
    3 blue sockets (not counting Khorium Destroyer)

    Red sockets are spent on:

    5 Dodge/6 stam (Heroic shadow Lab)
    5 Parry/6 stam (Heroic mechanar)
    5 Defense/4 dodge (Heroic Sethekk)
    4 Defense/5 parry (Heroic Black morass)
    4 Agi/5 Defense (Heroic Mana tombs)

    Yellow sockets are spent on:
    5 defense/6 stam (Heroic Old Hillsbrad)

    And 3x 4 defense/6 stam gems (Enduring Talasite)

    Thats a total of
    31 defense (2.09%)
    9 dodge (.48%)
    10 parry (.44%)
    4 agi (.15%)

    For a total of 3.16% from gems.

    Total:

    ~32.5%+ base w/Talents/Druid Mark/Kings
    67.85% items
    3.16% gems

    Thats 103.5%. This is just over uncrushability, giving us a little breathing room. (Chaging some of the non stam red gems to Agi/Stam for example).

    This setup has a ton of block value, 57 expertise, some hit rating, over 490 defense and around 50% avoidance (and over 50% block), and a decent amount of stamina. You can basically expect to give up a couple thousand hp in this setup vs a full stam setup with two stam trinkets. However, passive uncrushability and higher avoidance is probably worth it.


    You can swap out the expertise neck and bracers for the void reaver bracers and maiden or karathress neckpiece, and swap out a trinket for a 51 stam trinket to recoup some of the loss, but you lose some threat generation.

  2. #2
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    Thanks so much for this

  3. #3
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    Nice list, that'd be something worth striving for definitely. Thanks for compiling this!

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  4. #4
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    about how much health do you end up haveing with that set?

  5. #5
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    Any suggestions for those of us who arent goign to be seeing t5 or deep into ZA right after it goes live? I recently moved my war to a different server to raid w/ some people from my old EQ days. They are doing full kara clears in 1 night, and as of this tuesday should have enough 70's to start a grp 2 going through. Most of the peeps are geared well and have plenty of kara expereince. The only thing holding up progression is lack of 70's atm which will be worked out soon enough.
    How to play a Warrior:

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    Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Mortal Strike, Execute

  6. #6
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    You might be able to squeeze a Sta trinket in there if you use a Major Agi Elixir.

  7. #7
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    Passive crush immunity is already possible with Kara and preKara gear only. (Too bad the only table I've seen included styleens in the list...) You'll have ~10500 hp unbuffed. You need to gem/enchant everything with def. It's ugly
    I think ZA and new badge loots open the possibility to go for passive crush immunity before 25mans, retaining a decent hp pool. I'll go for it if it's possible.

  8. #8
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    Red Boots of Havoc are a good alternative for Jungle Stompers. They give a little more towards uncrushable at the expense of block value.

    PS: Help me find someone that can do Boar's Speed Crimson. Still not having any luck.

  9. #9
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    5 Dodge/6 stam (Heroic shadow Lab)
    5 Parry/6 stam (Heroic mechanar)
    5 Defense/4 dodge (Heroic Sethekk)
    4 Defense/5 parry (Heroic Black morass)
    4 Agi/5 Defense (Heroic Mana tombs)
    A majority of those are Unique-Equipped, I believe. So you'll only be able to have 1 of each per item and per item equipped. Just a heads-up.

  10. #10
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    I've been experimenting with the concept of uncrushability for some time now. My guild is on Vashj (4% best run so far) and is clearing ZA, just for reference. In all but a few cases, uncrushability is IMO the superior equipment set and done smartly is worth a reduction of 1000 - 1500 HP over a traditional tanking set.

    Your suit has a few specific areas that I run differently, such as:

    - Ditch Mongoose. It's pointless in an uncrush set. The point of the set is maintaining uncrushability at all times, not having it only Mongoose procs. Executioner is far and away the preferable enchant for that set IMO.

    - I don't like relying on heroic gems so I base everything I have around standard gems, although I am a JC so I can use the 12 def and 18 stam epic ones.

    - You don't post full numbers, but I suspect that your HP in that suit will be too low. That is largely due to pushing so much expertise and having 0% avoidance pieces.

    For reference, the following is the set I run today (note that I'm human so I have a free 5 expertise):

    Battleworn Tuskguard
    Hoodoo Hex - +10 Stamina, +10 Defense rating, +15 Shield Block
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina x 3

    Destroyer Shoulderguards
    Binds when picked up
    Greater Inscription of Warding - +15 Dodge Rating and +10 Defense Rating
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina x 2

    Chestguard of the Warlord
    Enchant Chest - Exceptional Health - +150 Health
    Epic JC Gem - +12 Defense Rating
    Subtle Living Ruby - +8 Dodge Rating
    Epic JC Gem - +18 Stamina

    Wristgaurds of Determination
    Enchant Bracer - Major Defense - +12 Defense Rating

    Destroyer Handguards
    Heavy Knothide Armor Kit - +10 Stamina

    Crimson Girdle of the Indomitable
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina x 2

    Destroyer Legguards
    Nethercleft Leg Armor - +40 Stamina, +12 Agility
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina

    Jungle Stompers
    Enchant Boots - Boar's Speed - Minor Speed / +9 Stamina
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina

    Phoenix-Wing Cloak
    Enchant Cloak - Dodge - +12 Dodge Rating

    Frayed Tether of the Drowned
    Ring of Sundered Souls
    Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen
    Styleen's Impeding Scarab
    Figurine of the Colossus

    Mallet of the Tides
    Enchant Weapon - Executioner - -840 Armor Proc

    Aldori Legacy Defender
    Enchant Shield - Shield Block - +15 Block Rating
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina

    Gyro-balanced Khorium Destroyer
    Adamantite Scope - +10 Damage Scope
    Solid Star of Elune - +12 Stamina

    In that suit, I have:

    14977 HP
    526 Defense
    16611 Armor
    22.5% Dodge
    48.9% Block
    540 Block Value
    17.04% Parry
    3.73% Hit
    7.29% Expertise Dodge/Parry Reduction
    100.49% Avoidance
    Kings, MotW, Flask of Fort/Elixir of Ag gets me to 102.4%

    I am in the middle of reconfiguring a few things. Specifically, I plan to add the Iron-Tusk Girdle and Slikk's cape in for the extra armor, which will require a little tweaking of enchants and gemming. Specifically, I'll change from the ZG helm to Aldor enchant first, and then may need to tweak a gem or two.

    My plans are to add the ZA shield with 15 block rating enchant and the ZA timed ring. That will push my HP up a few hundred.

    I'm currently mixed on the Unwavering Legs and ZA shoulders versus the T5. The UL's are inferior in avoidance, whereas the ZA shoulders are superior, but the avoidance gap does not equal the HP gap between the two ZA pieces and the two T5 pieces. So, my mind is not yet made up there.

    Overall, again, I love this set. I MT our guild and this gear out makes so many bosses much easier. Note that I do have a traditional tanking set as well which sports 16,416 HP, over 18k Armor, 16.63% Dodge, 30% Block, 490 Block Value, 15.41% Parry, 2.72% Hit, and 10.12% Expertise Hit. It shares many of the same pieces, but uses the BotAK, Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx, Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden, Violet Signet ring, Solarian's Sapphire, Spyglass, and the S2 shield to maximize the armor and HP.

  11. #11
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    Well great work guys but me personally I don't see the point to trying to achieve passive uncrushability when we have Shield Block. Granted i've only tanked The Eye/SSC content and only fight I can see this being excellent are fights like Tidewalker/Lynx in ZA. I was always a stam/armor tank that believes in Satrina's theory of "Not so much on how much damage you can avoid but how much you can take." Don't get me wrong I still gear with avoidance but I don't sacrifice alot of my stam/armor for it. So....with this new line of thinking of going passive uncrushable ......you guys don't specc in Shield Specialization or Imp Shield Block? Just curious. I can see the benefits for Threat purposes with this but still as a stam/armor pro tank I still avg 800-1k TPS + on most fights which in raids with my current guild has no dps really holding back which is really the main point for tanks working on Threat generation if its lacking. Im not dissing this post, just curious if the point of this was to try and get points out of prot tree to put somewhere else.

  12. #12
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    So here's my set, tell me if it's enough. Stat listed are from my rating buster mod.

    T4 Helm
    17agi - .57 dodge
    ZG ench - 10 defr 4.23 def
    24 defr 10.15 def
    19 sbr 2.41 block

    The Darkener's Grasp
    27 defr 11.41 def
    23 dogder 1.22 dodge
    14 sbr 1.78 block

    Pauldron's of Abyssal Fury
    scryer chant - 15defr 6.34 def 10 dodger .53 dodge
    28 defr 11.84 def
    36 dodger 1.9 dodge

    Phoenix-Wing Cloak
    12 agi chant .40 dodge
    22 defr 9.3 def
    27 dodger 1.43 dodge

    Chestguard of the Warlord
    27defr 11.41 def
    40 dodger 2.11 dodge

    Wristguards of Determination
    24 defr 10.15 def
    19 dodger 1.00 dodge
    13 sbr 1.65 block

    Onslaught Handguards
    15 agi chant .50 dodge
    32 defr 13.53 def
    27 dodger 1.43 dodge
    27 sbr 3.42 block

    Crimson Girdle of the Indomitable
    4agi 5def gem - .13 dodge 2.11 def
    5 defr 4 dodger gem - 2.11 def .21 dodge
    3 parryr socket bonus - .13 parry
    24 defr 10.15 def
    20 sbr 2.54 block

    Destroyer Legguards
    28 agi .93 dodge
    12 agi leg chant - .40 dodge
    39 defr 16.49 def
    32 sbr 4.06 block

    Red Havoc Boots
    32 defr 13.53 def
    25 sbr 3.17 block

    Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen
    17 defr 7.19 def
    24 sbr 3.04 block

    Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch
    38 dodger 2.01 dodge

    Figuring of the Colossus
    32 sbr 4.06 block

    The Sun Eater
    13 defr 5.5 def
    19 dodger 1 dodge

    Aldori Legacy Defender
    socket bonus 2 defr .85 def
    19 defr 8.03 def

    Barrel Blade Longrifle
    16 agi .53 dodge
    8 dodger gems x2 .84 dodge

    and that's all of it!

    In the end my defense tab says this...

    16705 armor
    538 def - 7.52 reduced hit
    28.49 dodge
    17.65 parry
    43.65 block

    Base stats tab says this...

    234 str
    196 agi
    1009 stam

    Melee tab says this...

    166-247
    1.6
    658AP
    41 hitr
    12.21 crit
    6 expertise in d stance

    So, say with Major Agi pot, Agi food, Mark of the Wild, and Kings does this set have what it takes? I think I am very close, maybe 2-3% off. I think if I redid some gems/enchant's it would work. I do have Coldarra shield i could throw sbr chant on as well.

    edit: put sbv chant on coldarra shield, switched to sundered souls ring and swapped pocketwatch for scarab from hydross, and that puts me over the top I think raid buffed

    man i'm bored...
    Last edited by dorfwawwior; 12-04-2007 at 03:19 PM.

  13. #13
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    Using Syana's fantastic spreadsheet
    Google Docs - uncrushablev2

    I came up with the following = 69.57% with the base of 32.87% = 102.44%

    Steam-Hinge Chain of Valor
    Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen
    Signet of the Last Defender
    Figurine of the Colossus
    Scarab of Displacement
    Devilshark Cape with 12 dodge
    Battleworn Tuskguard with Glyph of the Defender
    Pauldrons of Stone Resolve with Greater Inscription of the Knight
    Panzar'Thar Breastplate with 6 stats
    Wristguards of Determination with 12 defense
    Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden with 15 agility
    Crimson Girdle of the Indomitable
    Unwavering Legguards with
    Red Havoc Boots with 12 agility
    Mallet of the Tides
    Bulwark of the Amani Empire with 15 block rating
    Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer

    This list used only enchants and very realistic to obtain items from early TK/SSC with ZA and most importantly not a single gem slot so you can still socket up for tons of Stamina. (hopefully my math is correct cause this is a pretty wicked list I think)

    Once again big thanks to Syana for the awesome spreadsheet.

  14. #14
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    Is it viable to try and reach a "passive to DW mobs" uncrushable early on? Mostly I'm thinking of Prince fight where a high avoidance would both reduce sunder stacking chance and, if passively uncrushable, eliminate those crushes that cannot otherwise be avoided for a warrior. We generally just have a prot pally tank this since he got geared up and for that particular fight it seems optimal. He gets extra threat from exorcism, can't be crushed, and if there was a warrior tank along he can intervene during P2 to hopefully intercept a sunder and take the stacked sunders down. This just seems like one of those few fights where avoidance might pay off better than pure ac/stam.

    The armor/stam has to still be able to withsthstand a flurry of blocked blows, though...

    Of course I sold off my andormu's tear =(. Guess that's probably irreplacable for an avoidance set.

    EDIT: supposedly getting ring back (yay for the new policy on that... even if it is limited and I just used one on a blue it's actually officially the first time a GM has helped me out with something instead of telling me too bad in 12 years of multiplayer gaming... did it partly just for that).

    Edging close to the mark but my hps is down (and going further no doubt before I get there). I hope to keep them above 10k hps and ~14k armor. I know that's dangerously low, but if you think about it, the 3k hps more i normally have get wiped out in one crush that slips through. And there's always a nasty crush slipped into that mix.

    I think if I had more of the drops before prince I'd be better set but I'm scrounging atm and a lot of my avoidance stuff is pre-kara and/or not strictly tanky gear (got boots from nightbane in my avoidance set).
    Last edited by Horgar; 12-05-2007 at 01:27 AM.

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