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Thread: 19 October PTR Devastate Testing

  1. #21
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    Is the addon Satrina used available to others for more of this type of testing?
    Did you use any addon for your testing, Kaz, or just parse the combatlog afterwards?
    I'm trying to decide if I were to do some testing, would I need any particular mod, or would something like DamagMeters be ok to give a quick and dirty ingame number, with manual combatlog parsing afterwards for specifics?

    Is there a better mob to test on than any of the Blasted Lands Servants? I know they banish at 1% for a bit, but does during or after the banish affect damage/threat?

  2. #22
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    I wrote the addon I used yesterday because I got tired of typing numbers into Excel as they got read off, and we were at one point in danger of having the topmost numbers get scrolled off the top of the log buffer. Yeah, /combatlog, whatever =) I may clean it up and make it available at some point. Right now, it's really ugly and not fit for anyone else to look at.

    It's better that different people use a few different methods to collect data in any case.

  3. #23
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    So would we be seeing 5 sunder devastate analysis in the near future? I imagine it's much more time consuming but not much more complicated.

  4. #24
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    Is it possible for a macro to hit the mob with just 1 basic Sunder, or Devastate, without it hitting the mob with an auto attack? Just 1 less number to worry about.

    I think there's too many people "assuming" the original base threat of 101 and then working from there. I think we should ssume nothing and work it out from scratch.

    Now, just need a more suitable mob than the Servants.

  5. #25
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    I have the macro, but it's hard to not get the autoattacks. That's why I have the addon =)

    I agree Jarhead. I make the assumption that the Sunder is a Sunder, and worked out the Devastate innate from there.

  6. #26
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    Should be easy enough to eliminate autoattacks by using [target=mouseover] macro's. Just target yourself, mouseover the mob, and use the macro's.

  7. #27
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    You'd be surprised. It automatically changes target to the mob if you have a friendly target.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pizoi View Post
    Should be easy enough to eliminate autoattacks by using [target=mouseover] macro's. Just target yourself, mouseover the mob, and use the macro's.
    I've just been searching the Blizz Macro+UI forum for how to do it. A few other threads asking for the same thing, but nobody seemed to find anything reliable.
    /stopattack, /stopcasting, /cleartarget, mouseover,
    all mentioned, and all would still often have an auto attack sneak in.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pizoi View Post
    Should be easy enough to eliminate autoattacks by using [target=mouseover] macro's. Just target yourself, mouseover the mob, and use the macro's.
    only works reliably with 2 hostile mobs. believe me, we tried this. Unless there is another mob there, you target the mouseover and attack it

  10. #30
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    You don't have to actually attack the second hostile mob. Selecting a hostile mob you aren't fighting will make the mouseover macro work.
    風林火山陰雷

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    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain - it's time to roll the dice

  11. #31
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    Edit: Nevermind. You also need "Stop Auto Attack" turned off in the options to make it work right.

  12. #32
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    so:
    /cast [target=mouseover] Sunder Armor
    /stopattack
    with "Stop Auto Attack" checked in Interface Options?

  13. #33
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    Did I do my math wrong? I mean, for the first test I put up I thought I almost hit the nail on the head with such a close range.

    My damage *1.495 = threat generated from damage.
    (I assumed the 101 from devastate was still there and thus added that to it as well).

    then i took the damage it took to peel said mob off me, divide by 1.1 to get how much threat it would've taken to equal my threat, and then took the difference to see what the difference was. Divide by 1.495 and you get innate threat boost. What seemed to give you 70-90 range?

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  14. #34
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    Kaz, you said aggro was pulled at 895 damage, but the very next line you use 953 in the equation.

    Don't assume any number.
    Both of you are assuming numbers, and then plugging them into the front of your equations. Satrina 301 for Sunder and Kaz 101 for Dev.
    You're both using different equations to figure it, so you're coming up with different results.



    Let's figure both of your numbers, using both of your methods.

    constants:
    1.10 = 110% needed to pull aggro
    1.495 = defiance + defensive stance



    Satrina test numbers:
    Devastate with 45 damage
    aggro pulled with 765 damage

    Satrina method:
    45 damage + 301 assumed = 346 * 1.495 * 1.10 = 569
    (765 - 569) / 1.495 = 131
    131 + 301 assumed = 432 innate Dev threat

    Kaz method:
    765 / 1.10 = 695.45
    45 + 101 assumed * 1.495 = 218.27
    695.45 - 218.27 = 477.18 / 1.495 = 319.18
    319 + 101 assumed = 420 innate Dev threat



    Kaz test numbers:
    Devastate with 87 damage and 88 autoattack damage = 175 dmg
    aggro pulled with 953 damage

    Satrina method:
    175 damage + 301 assumed = 476 * 1.495 * 1.10 = 782.78
    (953 - 782.78) / 1.495 = 113.85
    113.85 + 301 assumed = 414.85 innate Dev threat

    Kaz method:
    953 / 1.10 = 866.36
    175 + 101 assumed * 1.495 = 412.62
    866.36 - 412.62 = 453.74 / 1.495 = 303.5
    303.5 + 101 assumed = 404.5 innate Dev threat


    <edit> to add:
    I think the problem is with Satrina's method:
    Adding an assumed 301 up front, and increasing by 110% (needed to pull aggro),
    but not lowering the result by 110% to show the actual threat it was pulled off of.

    .
    Last edited by Jarhead; 10-22-2007 at 04:55 AM.

  15. #35
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    For the assumed 301 - the combat log and casting animations support an invoked cast of Sunder, explained at the top of the post in the assumptions. Even so, if you redo the math to assume it's all innate threat to Devastate, the numbers fall out the same and you get 430/450/470

    Edit: Rethinking this part.

  16. #36
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    That's the problem. You are showing the 110% needed to pull aggro.
    Don't show that. Show the base threat the warrior generates, not the 110% somebody else needs to generate to pull aggro.

  17. #37
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    It may be the angle from which you're looking at it and trying to work it.
    Try it from a different angle.

    1 step at a time.
    Devastate with 45 damage
    aggro pulled with 765 damage

    765 is what the mage had to do to pull aggro.
    That means it's 10&#37; more than what the warrior actually generated.
    That means the warrior generated 765 / 1.1 = 695.45 threat.
    Warrior generates 695 threat, melee needs 10% more to pull aggro, which is exactly what happened at 765.

    Warriors 695 threat is modified with defiance and defensive stance.
    Unmodify it. 695.45 / 1.495 = 465.18
    Before defiance and defensive stance, warrior generates 465.18 threat.
    Same as if he didn't have defiance talented, and was not standing in defensive stance.

    465.18 base threat includes damage, so remove damage.
    465.18 - 45 = 420.18 base, unmodified, innate threat.

    If that's the result of 2 abilities, then now you can subtract 1 of them.
    420 - 301 = 119


    No need to raise everything by 1.10 and 1.495 just to subtract, and then lower it all by 1.10 and 1.495.
    Just lower it all to start with, only modifying things once, like I did above, and then you have the base numbers to work with,
    no more multiplying or dividing needed.

    Threat.required.to.pull / 1.10 = threat.generated.by.warrior / 1.495 = threat.before.multipliers - any.damage = innate.threat
    ((765 / 1.10) / 1.495) - 45 = 420.18

    <edit>
    ((765 / 1.10) / 1.495) - 45
    can be stuck in the Google search bar to get the results, too.


    .
    Last edited by Jarhead; 10-22-2007 at 08:23 AM.

  18. #38
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    You're right, I missed the 1.10 at the end. I have a meeting soon, will re-math afterwards.

    I like your method too. (though the numbers work out the same when you divide my original results by 1.10)

  19. #39
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    Sanity check on live server, single Devastate:

    Devastate: 45
    Mage hits: 12,17,16,17,14,23,25,10,17,16,21,13,16,12,11
    All but last hit = 229 (therefore minimum 230 threat to pull aggro)
    All including last = 240

    1) Satrina Method
    45 * 1.495 * 1.10 = 74
    230 - 74 = 156; 156/1.495/1.10 = 95
    240 - 74 = 166; 166/1.495/1.10 = 101 (yay!)

    2) Jarhead Method
    230/1.10/1.495 = 140 - 45 = 95
    240/1.10/1.495 = 146 - 45 = 101 (yay!)

    So we see that when I remember to divide by 1.10, both methods come out to the same results, and that the result is correct. Now to go update the first page.

    I like Jarhead's methodology better, it reads more clearly. I will use it.

  20. #40
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    I like his too, I will re do my math as well. Thanks jar!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
    http://i.imgur.com/3vbQi.gif

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