Need some threat info/advice
Sigh, I need some help here folks. Let me give you the background so you know where I am coming from. Pre BC I was only a casual raider. Did MC and BWL, and most of AQ 40 as a fury warrior. BC came around and I lvled up slower than the "raiders" and therefore by the time I hit 70 the guild had mostly imploded and was down to 2 groups of hard core raiders and there was no room for me.
I went into limbo for a bit, then one day I was just chilling out in IF farming the AH and I got a random tell "Hey wanna tank Kara tonight?" My gut response was "Hell no I'm not tanking some random pug." I resisted my first impulse and set about gathering some information. It was a guild run of a young small guild and they just needed a tank cause the one they had was kinda flakey and unreliable. So I said yes. Respecced really quick, bought some potions and started tanking kara. It was mildly successful. The guild went on till Kara was on farm. We still only had one raid group. We picked up a few extra members and we started recruiting. Well in the last month or so our membership has gone from 15 or so solid members to well 35 or 40 people on raid nights.
This is great for the guild, we've started doing 25 mans now and we already have Gruul, and Voidreaver on farm. Lurker is next on the list.
Heres where the problem started coming. I was loggin on for raids and not getting invites. I was told that I really didnt need anything from Kara so they were taking the undergeared tanks. Okay that makes sense. Gruul I have my shoulders and the pants are a mediocre upgrade so let those that need the shoulders go. Okay thats fine, Im bored when Im not raiding but I understand gearing the guild. Last night I didnt get an invite for SSC... so I start asking around only to find out that they think my tps is too low and are taking the other tanks instead even ones who are undergeared.
I mean wow. WTF.... tanking has never been easy for me. I have always stressed and struggled with being the best tank I can be. I've read the warrior forums, I know the holy rotation, I use it religiously.
Heres the issue, omen and KTM dont display threat in a way that I can effectively watch it while tanking so i'm not really sure how much threat I do. I have seen numbers as high as 1100 but those are rare and probably caused by like a string of crits, shield slam, revenge, devastate or something as equally weird all critting right in a row. What I want is a mod that stores all that data so I can look at it and graph it over time and all that.
Also if you guys could look at my gear/spec and tell me about how much TPS I should be consistently capable of on trash/bosses I would appreciate it.
Sorry to have written a book but this is weighing heavily on my mind. Tanking is the hardest thing I have ever tried to do in this game and it really bugs me that I am not doing as well as they think I should be.
I'm in a bad spot and shield wall and last stand are on cooldown.
I am new to warrior but it looks to me like you have enough EH and can start looking into + AP for threat gen.
Thanks for the reply.
I was under the impression that +hit is better for threat gen than anything other than the new expertise stat? I already have a threat set with some extra +hit gems in various slots.
Is anybody aware of a mod that creates an average TPS number like recap and such do with DPS? Omen resets threat so quickly I cant see my average from fight to fight or throughout the course of the raid. I dont have time to watch the threat meter much while tanking. I just watch rage and cooldowns too much to make sure I hit things asap after the cooldowns cycle and to make sure I am using the best ability considering rage and threat.
I seriously micromanage my tanking and it really bothers me that as hard as I try Im apparently still not good enough.
well, looking at your gear it seems like it would be ok to substitue DPS gear in. and i believe your right about + hit being better
Have someone else watch your rage bar while you are tanking and if its staying full, you probably need to start adding more heroic strikes as well.
Last edited by Silentslayer; 10-19-2007 at 05:51 PM.
do you have a screen shot or know how much TPS you bring in usually on trash and bosses??
+hit is a good stat to maximize your tps. What is you cooldown cycle like? This is where the problem may be.. If you find that you have extra rage keep HS que'd up.
I was having a similiar problem on trash, my solution was to stop shield blocking. I have a revenge/SB macro that i only use on bosses where im MTing or may have to OT..
A good rotation for your cooldowns would look something like.. SS,rev,sunderX2, till 5 then replace sunder with devestate. If you are tanking bosses and you find that you have excess rage i would definally use HS.
Hope this helps
Wow its extremely interesting that you mention that macro. I have the same one. It revenges and immediately queues shield block? You say it made a difference in your tps? I am no math wizard but I do tend to be fairly good at logic and now that you have brought this to my attention I will have to analyze it and experiment to see what difference it makes.
Screen shots is also an excellent idea, I can hit my screen shot button quite easily and get 10 or 15 screen shots per boss fight to see where my threat lies. I can do the same on trash.
Thanks for the info, any other advice or recommendations would be appreciated.
Death I do substitute dps gear on trash when I wear my threat set, I might be willing to try it on some of the easier bosses to see how it goes. Thanks for that recommendation as well.
np, i am new to the warrior class but if your group is complaining about your threat gen and not your damage taken I figured that you can sub some gear for dps, granted you will take more damage but damage gives you rage which can be turned into threat.
SB for me is very situational. When im tanking heroics i don't use it at all, i gimps my rage, and i want to get hit. Like always as your gear gets better the less rage you will produce. For most of kara i don't use it either... outside of the harder hitting bosses..
For 25 mans i do use the macro.. as the healing is going to be spread more and i will need to mitigate more dmg.
I would take a look at your rotation, and try to work on timing, you always want to have shield slam and revenge qued up.. never dump so much rage that you can use these, sometimes that is also a mistake tanks do.
Thanks for the info, I do watch my rotation very carefully, making sure that I prioritize shield slam and revenge over all else.
I will queue heroic strike anytime I get over 50 rage. I will skip devastates for shield slam or revenge if my timing gets off and they come off of cooldown. Thunderclap and demoshout get thrown into the mix when they are expiring. After the crazy first couple of seconds of positioning I will autoblocker shield slam macro to secure my aggro as the dps starts to go.
I will say this, I use shield block a lot. Not just on bosses either, on trash too. I am going to have to play a bit and use SB less to see how much of a difference it makes.