Brutalizer vs. Unbreakable, 2.3 (Orc/Human)

[Ciderhelm]

This is irritating me, but only in the sense that the entire racial nerf for Humans and Orcs already has.

As it stands there are two really good endgame weapons that are specifically oriented to tanks (not including Shahraz' sword). These are [item]The Brutalizer[/item] and [item]The Unbreakable Will[/item].

This next patch, if Brutalizer stays the same, but the +5 Axe Skill becomes +5 Expertise, it will reduce Dodge and Parry by 1.25% each for the tank using it. In other words, it will provide 2.5% Hit beyond the normal Hit cap. The equivalent would be nearly 40 Hit Rating on the weapon. 1% Crit and Armor just don't counter the bonuses of switching to Brutalizer, especially the Parry reduction.

The best Human tanking weapon will, in fact, be an axe. This, given two tank-specific weapons of equal item level and a racial bonus. After another tank in my guild gets his Brutalizer, I'll be picking one up -- even though I just picked up the Unbreakable Will.

Enough morning ranting!


(p.s. I haven't actually checked all this out on PTR, so if something is inaccurate feel free to let me know)

[Narshe]

You are right. I carried my [item]Gauntlets of Enforcement[/item] to the test realm along with the axe and I have 2.50% of parry and dodge reduction.

I want to ask for ur opinion. Do you think its necesary to have both items? I mean the axe and the gloves or could I switch to the sword if I have the gloves, or switch to tier6 gloves while wearing the axe?

[Ciderhelm]

Depends on how much Expertise there is available in this next patch, Narshe.

I'm tempted to see how viable it would be to get 5% Parry reduction on a level 73. Defiance has 6 Expertise in it now, so that's going to help a lot. I'm sure I'll use my Gauntlets of Enforcement, and w/ Brutalizer that leaves you only 1-2 items with Expertise off from the Parry reduction goal.

But, I don't know that bosses only Parry 5% of the time. That's an assumption, feel free to correct it. Honestly never thought of it.

[Paumedie]

Looking over some WWS Reports quickly for parry percentages...

Teron Gorefiend: 15.72%
http://wowwebstats.com/dnacr432zvvcc?s=10852-11163

Naj'entus: 16.99%
http://wowwebstats.com/dnacr432zvvcc?s=1847-2255&a=2

Mother Shahraz: 13.49%
http://wowwebstats.com/n6ygbg1jqa4d3?s=13221-13808&a=53

Granted...this is a small sample size, but those numbers seem unusually high. Perhaps I'm calculating it wrong. Here's my math.

Parries / (Landed Hits + Miss + Dodge + Parry)

[Narshe]

Well... I think that after you cap the dodge reduction anything from there is not worthy to spend points in.
I forgot about the expertise on Defiance. I will check PTR tonight and tell u my numbers.

Btw, kinda not much on-topic but somewhat related question: How much is the regular Dodge/Parry/Miss a regular boss have?

[Paumedie]

Btw, kinda not much on-topic but somewhat related question: How much is the regular Dodge/Parry/Miss a regular boss have?

Miss was believed to be 8.6%, but I think it's recently been revised to 9%.

I always assumed that dodge and parry were both 5%, but after looking over some WWS reports, I'm starting to think otherwise unless I'm reading the WWS wrong.

[Kazeyonoma]

Fame's WWS reports show plenty of bosses averaging Parries in the 6-12% range so as far as I know, your calculations are correct paum.

[Narshe]

All of these are Archimonde fights with a LOT of tries being done. No trash aka corrupted data :P
http://wowwebstats.com/qhx31ctdiob1k?a=10
http://wowwebstats.com/2skt1oqweif2e?a=4
http://wowwebstats.com/gx4uoiwtgovn5?a=4
http://wowwebstats.com/24lwkqqlqmvuo?a=0

This was 3xGurtogg tries:
http://wowwebstats.com/rk1a2xume6dws?a=8

All of those were done with [item]Gauntlets of Enforcement[/item]. No other +skill in any piece of gear. Around 100 hit rating.
Parry values seem very high compared as dodge....

[Lore]

Isn't the orc racial also being changed to 1% crit?

[Kazeyonoma]

yep, with axes only btw.

[Berginyon]

If a rogue or DPS warrior is being dumb and attacking from the front or sides and causes a parry, does that reset the swing timer and cause the tank to take a quicker hit? Would that parry register in the logs as a parry on that tank?

I've seen such wide ranging parry rates, and yet the dodge always stays the same. Its odd that Blizzard would buff a boss' parry rate and never touch dodge.

[Ciderhelm]

Yes it still triggers the Parry on the primary target. That was something we specifically tested when we did the very first Parry testing way back last year.

Specifically, when we tested it we pulled multiple mobs to increase the Parry rate per minute. Even though we only attacked a single mob, any other mob could trigger the increased attack speed to occur on the target we were attacking.

//edit: But no, it wouldn't register as a tank-related Parry.

[Paumedie]

I can guarantee that for at least the bosses I listed I was the only one attacking from in front. Even if they were, it doesn't report as a parry on the tank.

[Narshe]

Well, each of Brutalizer and Gauntlets of Enforcement gives 5 expertise, that translates into 1.25% of dodge and parry reduction in the character sheet. Defiance talent doesn't show in the character sheet, but this can be a bug.

All of this I have just checked in the current PTR build.

[Bruizer]

A few questions related to weapon skill and expertise.

I just got [item]Mallet of the Tides[/item] last night. As a Human warrior I felt this to be a nice upgrade in +hit over the [item]King's Defender[/item] given that with Human racial I end up at 358 Mace skill.

From the elitistjerks calculations, getting to 355 skill from the human racial with maces should give me 3% "free" +hit.

My first question is, do you know of theory-crafting indicating +hit values for numbers above 355? If they give 0.4% hit as the 350 - 354, or 1.4% as the jump from 354 - 355? My assumption is that I end up around 4.2% +hit from the racial and weapon skill combined (3% + 3*0.4%).

Second question is, how badly will I get slapped in the face with patch 2.3 when Human mace and sword racials give +crit instead of weapon skill, and when weapon skill becomes expertise? My character sheet tends to read around 60 hit rating normally in tanking gear.

Unfortunately, I think I logged out in grinding gear last night, so numbers in the armory are likely to be completely off.