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Thread: New Weapon Expertise Question

  1. #1
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    New Weapon Expertise Question

    Anyone have a chance to look into the mech.

    Is it going to be like Weapon skill used to be, where as after a skill level of 5 its worthless?

    Like it used to be +5 = 3% hit on lvl 73 / +10 = 3.5% hit on lvl 73. Was never worth going over +5.

    Also is the new Human racial just changed to +5 Weapon Expertise and for all weapons or still swords and maces only.

    Thanks,
    Herem

  2. #2
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    The human racial (along with all other racials that resembles it) has changed to 1% crit for Swords and Maces.

  3. #3
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    weapon expertise now will do this and this alone, there should be no cap except when you are effectively reducing their dodge/parry by so much they no longer have any.

    I think Fame came up with 22 expertise rating = 1 expertise point.

    1 expertise point = -.25% dodge and -.25% parry from your opponents dodge and parry %'s

    Fame has wws logs that show bosses going between 6-12% parried attacks, so assuming 9% was average parry % on boss mobs, you would need
    9*4 = 36 expertise points to remove that bosses chance to parry your attacks.

    This is not to be confused with the current warrior talent in the arms tree "Weapon Mastery" which will be moved to the fury tree in 2.3

    That skill is totally changed in its effects. It will now read:
    "Reduces your opponents chance to dodge by 2/4% and reduce the duration of Disarm effects by 25/50%"

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  4. #4
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    not sure about it, we'd hve to see more wws logs to be sure. Fame our local data collector (;P) has found parrying to range from 6-12% so arguably, its in the 9% range, if that's so dodge may verywell be on par with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    weapon expertise now will do this and this alone, there should be no cap except when you are effectively reducing their dodge/parry by so much they no longer have any.

    I think Fame came up with 22 expertise rating = 1 expertise point.

    1 expertise point = -.25% dodge and -.25% parry from your opponents dodge and parry %'s

    Fame has wws logs that show bosses going between 6-12% parried attacks, so assuming 9% was average parry % on boss mobs, you would need
    9*4 = 36 expertise points to remove that bosses chance to parry your attacks.

    This is not to be confused with the current warrior talent in the arms tree "Weapon Mastery" which will be moved to the fury tree in 2.3

    That skill is totally changed in its effects. It will now read:
    "Reduces your opponents chance to dodge by 2/4% and reduce the duration of Disarm effects by 25/50%"
    Thanks a ton. Everything makes sense now. 22 rating = 1 point seems high. For example: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29947 seems underpowered vs. it used to be +3% hit for a lvl 73.

    -Herem

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KudagAxehand View Post
    I think that's the point. Weapon skill was still worth too much vs. bosses, so they nerfed it again.
    Too good for humans especially. The human racial was way too good (and before you say orcs...) given that all itemization is swords and maces for the most part.

    Losing Fear Ward and Human Racials are two more big hits to alliance superiority. Now if only this lasted a year of us having will of the forsaken and tauren racial then you guys would maybe understand even a little bit what it's like to be the underdogs

  7. #7
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    Its 4.2:1 when converting the rating. So an item like [item]Gauntlets of Enforcement[/item] give 5 which yields (5x.25) 1.25 less chance to be Dodged and/or Parried. Which is a total of 2.5 hit. Another item that will be a must for all tanks that have access to it is [item]The Brutalizer[/item]. The Bracers and Neck from the Heroic Badge Rewards will be highly valued aswell.

    As far as data goes, http://wowwebstats.com/ftft2vk1m3gma...C262A20E85.sv2 that is a good portion of our WWS logs, and while the dodge is rather low in majority of them (due to me wearing weapon skill) the parry is very high in just about every single encounter. So i would wear as much Expertise as possible.
    I havnt had much of a chance to test that much Expertise on a boss due to the lag on PTRs, however during the trash clear i havnt noticed a single dodge or parry wearing the 4 previously stated pieces of gear.

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    Aren't the Bracers defense? And the Neck Hit Rating?
    Last edited by veneretio; 10-16-2007 at 01:09 PM.

  9. #9
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    [item]Brooch of Deftness[/item]
    +48 Stam
    +22 Hit
    +21 Expertise Rating


    [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item]
    +45 Stam
    +23 Defense rating
    +22 Expertise rating

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fame View Post
    [item]Brooch of Deftness[/item]
    +48 Stam
    +22 Hit
    +21 Expertise Rating


    [item]Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx[/item]
    +45 Stam
    +23 Defense rating
    +22 Expertise rating
    MOTHER OF GOD! wow.. just wow. And here I thought those bracers were a joke.

    Wow... mmo-champion.com needs to update definitely.

  11. #11
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    yeah im not really sure why its bugged on MMO. I'm reading you these stats off PTR right now. Those 4 pieces combined with Defiance put me at 27 Expertise (6.75) which is a +13.50 to hit. This is going to be fairly manditory (not sure if this high however) on trash and on some boss'

  12. #12
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    whoops, misquote on fame, its 4.2 -> 1 expertise not 22. thats terrible! ;x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
    http://i.imgur.com/3vbQi.gif

  13. #13
    Sitting here on test with just my gloves on and in defensive stance with 3/3 defiance. I am at 11 expertise. 21 expertise rating=5 expertise, 1.25 reduced chance to dodge/parry. You get 1.5 reduced chance to dodge/parry with expertise from having 3/3 defiance ie 6 expertise. So if you were wearing the following:

    Brutalizer 21 expertise rating.
    The new neck(broach of deftness) 21 expertise rating.
    The new bracers(bracers of the ancient phalanx) 22 expertise rating.
    Gauntlets of enforcement 21 expertise rating.

    You would have 27 expertise and 6.75 reduced chance to dodge and parry. Not sure if there are any other items out there but this seems short of the cap by about 2 pieces of gear.
    Last edited by Karsa Orlong; 10-29-2007 at 03:10 PM.

  14. #14
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    But what is the difference between +Hit and +Expertise now?

    It sounds like they are very similar, but is +Hit going away in the new patch and both Weapon Skill and +Hit being replaced by +Expertise?

    And if not, does +Hit only effect misses? Is +Expertise the only way to comabt +Dodge and +Parry? I've looked over the WoW forums and couldn't find a definite answer, though I may have been looking in the wrong place. I'd like to know if anyone has done any testing on the PTR and found what the reccomended limits are.

    To think I was struggling to make 102.4% Uncrushable and 490 Defense only to find there's something new I need to worry about...

    -Krynn

  15. #15
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    +Hit and Expertise are on different tables so to speak.

    For you since your a prot warrior. It will help you not get dodged or parried as much. It is independent of +hit.

    It's a great tank stat since getting a unlucky parry/parry from a boss can be bad news.

    You can stack Expertise to a point where you can't get dodged or parried, but you can still just miss from a lack of +hit.

    For a dps warrior for example, Expertise will be a way to decrease the amount of special (yellow) attacks that are dodged and/or Parried (even know it shouldn't happen from behind) Dps warriors could stack Hit to any number and still get dodged approx. 5% of the time. Expertise will be a way to lower that %.

  16. #16
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    Ahh...

    So it is completely separate. Thank you for clarifying that...

    +Hit to combat attacks missing and +Expertise to combat attacks being dodged and parried. As if I didn't have enough to worry about with +Spell Hit on my gear to keep my Righteous Defense from being resisted. Thank you Blizzard...

    -Krynn

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fame View Post
    yeah im not really sure why its bugged on MMO. I'm reading you these stats off PTR right now. Those 4 pieces combined with Defiance put me at 27 Expertise (6.75) which is a +13.50 to hit. This is going to be fairly manditory (not sure if this high however) on trash and on some boss'
    on some boss? try on all boss, less parry speed increase could almost make expertise a avoidence stat

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fame View Post
    yeah im not really sure why its bugged on MMO. I'm reading you these stats off PTR right now. Those 4 pieces combined with Defiance put me at 27 Expertise (6.75) which is a +13.50 to hit. This is going to be fairly manditory (not sure if this high however) on trash and on some boss'
    This seems to be the main thread for Expertise theorycrafting. Great information here so far! Fame, your earlier post makes alot of sense, and seems like we could establish a Expertise Cap in PVE. I'm trying to understand the 27 Expertise = +13.50 hit calculation comes from. It's reducing parry and dodge right, not reducing the miss chance? Maybe I'm confused.

    Do we know if each point in Expertise is reducing the opponents combined Dodge and Pary by 0.25%, or is it reducing both Dodge and Parry chance by 0.25% (effectivly reducing enemy avoidence by 0.5%)?

    I recall seeing the numbers 5.4% Dodge and 5.4% Parry for a Level 73 Mob with a Level 70 attacker, but I'm trying to track down where this number came from.

    If this is indeed correct, and if Expertise loweres both Dodge and Parry by 0.25% per point, then it should be 22 Weapon Expertise to be Unavoidable by a level 73 Mob (15 with Defiance). 15 Weapon Expertise would only take 60 Expertise Rating... that seems REALLY low to me. Brooch of Deftness, Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx, and Gauntlets of Enforcement would cap you if this was true.

  19. #19
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    There's no way that so few pieces of gear would cover the cap...

    Though, with all of the other things we need to worry about, maybe keeping it small is the smart thing to do. It would be tough looking for newer pieces of gear with the same level of Dodge and the like and give any appreciable Expertise...

    -Krynn

  20. #20
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    The parry rate of 73's is at least double their dodge rate.

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