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Thread: Weapon selection help?

  1. #1
    Gargantax Guest

    Weapon selection help?

    Hiya, guys.

    I'm one of a few warrior tanks in Undead Fish on Shadow Council, and we're just starting to get into Kara. We're reliably dropping Attumen, Moroes, Maiden... and have tried further a few times.

    I'm currently tanking with either my Grom'tor's Charge, or an Emerald Ripper I picked up that I got +7 dam put on. I just got a Latro's Shifting Sword, which I've read here is good to tank with (1.4 speed).

    What I'm wondering is which, if any, of these I should use for max aggro generation... or should I start farming for a Suneater. I'm collecting mats for a Mongoose enchant, and don't want to waste them on the wrong weapon.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I would stick to Grom'tor's charge and put a cheaper agility enchant on it (saveMongoes mats for now). Try farming for Sun Eater (the badges are going to come in handy in 2.3) but if your luck is like mine you will see King's Defender drop several times and never see the Sun Eater

  3. #3
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    Stick with the axe indeed. Sun Eater also never dropped for me, but kings defender is the same story haha. Well I just keep on trying Mech 3 times a weak and hope for kings defender.
    Carefish - Fury Warrior - Chromaggus EU

  4. #4
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    There are a couple of things we don't know...

    What is your race?
    What is your Defense and avoidance at?
    What is your Effective Health.
    How easily are you holding aggro?

    If you're human and having aggro issues, use the Shifting Sword.
    If you're an Orc and barely above 490 defense, use Gromtor's (an axe).

    etc.....

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantax View Post
    Hiya, guys.

    I'm currently tanking with either my [item]Grom'tor's Charge[/item], or an [item]Emerald Ripper[/item] I picked up that I got +7 dam put on. I just got a [item]Latro's Shifting Sword[/item], which I've read here is good to tank with (1.4 speed).

    What I'm wondering is which, if any, of these I should use for max aggro generation...
    To answer the question directly, definitely use the [item]Emerald Ripper[/item]. The extra 15 DPS over the sword is reason enough. Even with the attack power penalty to daggers your Devastates will hit harder with the Emerald Ripper that with either of the other two.

    I would hold on to Grom'tor's for fights where the extra stam or defense are more important than your threat output. You might want to keep Latro's as a DPS item, but for tanking it's not as good as either one of your other weapons.
    Armstrong
    <Elysium>
    Burning Legion US

  6. #6
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    But if he's human he's losing +19 skill rating....that's a lot of +hit, no?

    +5 skill is 3&#37; less misses. I don't know if it scales linearly, but if it does, he could literally never miss if he's human and is using the sword. On the other hand, using the dagger, at 5% "miss rate" (assuming he's got a few percentage of +hit already) on a 185 damage swing, that's almost 1000 damage per 100 swings he's losing by using the dagger. Not to mention the increased chance that he will miss on a critical conc blow, SS, or SB.

    The shifting sword is roughly, in 100 swings, 500 less damage than the dagger (net).

    So, over the course of 100 swings, how much will he lose on SS for instance, due to dagger normalization? This is the question I've been having, when trying to decide between the [item]Grand Marshal's Quickblade[/item] and [item]retainer's blade[/item].

    I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that the Skill rating (+hit) and dagger normalization differences make this a closer call than it appears initially, and I myself am having tough times deciding between the two I have for the same reasons he probably is.

    Edit: Wait a minute....is Shield Slam, Shield Bash, and Conc Blow even affected by Skill rating or +hit?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHarry View Post
    But if he's human he's losing +19 skill rating....that's a lot of +hit, no?
    Assuming 600 Attack Power (blue tank gear, 5-man buffed), going from the Shifting Sword to the Emerald Ripper would represent a 14&#37; increase to auto-attack damage, a.k.a. white damage, not counting the effect of Weapon Skill. How much of an increase this contributes to overall damage will fluctuate with ability usage and availability of rage. I find that white damage generally hovers between 25% - 50% of my damage, 25% breing when tanking raid bosses, 50% being when tanking non-heroic 5-man trash mobs.

    So in the very worse case (raid bosses), you are looking at a 3.5% overall DPS increase (14% * 0.25), and a 7% increase in low-rage situations. In addition to that, rage gain from damage dealt should increased by roughly the same 14% in all situations.

    Weapon Skill does affect your chances of landing all attacks, including Shield Slam and other abilities with "innate" threat, so the actualy threat increase would be greater than a flat percentage increase of successful attacks in terms of DPS alone.

    I suppose for a human the choice between the two might be a difficult one. For any other race though, I doubt the 3.6 weapon skill on the Shifting Sword would make up for the added DPS and rage gain with the Emerald Ripper.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldHarry View Post
    So, over the course of 100 swings, how much will he lose on SS for instance, due to dagger normalization?
    I'm not sure I understand that question. The only "normalization" that affects daggers is the normalized Attack Power calculations for instant attacks based on weapon damage. For warriors this is Mortal Strike, Overpower, Whirlwind and Devastate. Shield Slam (SS?) is completely unaffected by the type of weapon you use. Unless you mean to say that you are getting a racial Weapon Skill bonus from the sword, in which case your Shield Slam will land more often by a few %age points, more on raid bosses, not so much on mobs your level or lower.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldHarry View Post
    Edit: Wait a minute....is Shield Slam, Shield Bash, and Conc Blow even affected by Skill rating or +hit?
    Yes they are.
    Armstrong
    <Elysium>
    Burning Legion US

  8. #8
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    The only "normalization" that affects daggers is the normalized Attack Power calculations for instant attacks based on weapon damage. For warriors this is Mortal Strike, Overpower, Whirlwind and Devastate. Shield Slam (SS?) is completely unaffected by the type of weapon you use.
    You answered my question perfectly, thank you. Since SS, Revenge, and Sunder are my 3 main concerns, the dagger isn't a factor insofar as normalization goes.

    That still puts me on the fence whether or not to use my Quickblade or Dagger (I'm human), but if the new patch does in fact remove +skill from my racial, it will make the decision to use the dagger all the more easy.

    Thanks for the explanation, very helpful.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armstrong View Post
    So in the very worse case (raid bosses), you are looking at a 3.5% overall DPS increase (14% * 0.25), and a 7% increase in low-rage situations. In addition to that, rage gain from damage dealt should increased by roughly the same 14% in all situations.
    Dumb question, but won't raid bosses have some form of damage mitigation from armor, abilities or whatever else that would impact threat generation from damage?
    I've got more plate than your grandma's cupboard.

  10. #10
    Gargantax Guest
    Thanks for the input, guys. Still waiting for either the King's Defender or the Suneater... no luck yet.

    Questions from above answered:

    Orc warrior
    11/7/43 spec

    13,394 health
    13,674 armor
    515 defense

    15.07&#37; dodge
    18.71% parry
    19.41% block

    32,261 effective health

    I seem to be holding aggro reasonably well, especially after the 2.3 patch, our rogues and sometimes mages can pull off me if they unload too early... but I'm working on them... if they wait a bit I'm holding solid aggro, even with the Grom'tors.

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