Need tanking cloak advice.

[Illogic]

Hi, I was looking over the heroic badge tanking cloak today, and realized I don't know if I wanna spend the badges on it to replace my Devilshark cape.


Currently using: Devilshark cape

Could get: Farstriders Defenders Cloak -or- Gilded Thorium cloak

Any opinions on the listed cloaks, or if I missed any cloaks please list them.

[Zyn]

Comparing the others to [item]Devilshark Cape[/item] to the others you get...


[item]Farstrider Defender's Cloak[/item]
+267 Armor
+8 Stamina
+9 Block Value
-20 Defence
-29 Block Value


[item]Gilded Thorium Cloak[/item]
+307 Armor
+8 Stamina
+4 Defence
-18 Dodge Rating
-29 Block Value


In my opinion there is no doubt that [item]Devilshark Cape[/item] wins hands down as it is 75% of Farstriders+ Gilded put together into a single cloak. Personally my cloak progression looks like this;

1) [item]Phoenix-Wing Cloak[/item]
2) [item]Devilshark Cape[/item]

Although [item]Pepe's Shroud of Pacification[/item] would probably go above both if you already have hit the defence cap.

[Narshe]

If you are already over the defense cap, the two epic cloaks are better than Devilshark imho.
There was a post where this was analyzed, could worth a search through the forum ^^

Edited: 1% dodge is not worthy when you are a progression tank. For 5-man and heroics Devilshark will probably win over the other two, but when raiding wear one of the epix.
Im still wearing Farstriders for almost all the content mi guild is doing (5/5 Hyjal 5/9 BT). Devilshark disenchanted one month ago.

[Wartorn]

I'm partial to Farstriders as well.

[Nicki]

I might switch to farstrider's from guilded thorium but it will depend on what im tanking.

Devilshark favours old content, fast hitters and heroics
Farstriders favours newer content, medium hitters and heroics
Gilded Thorium favours newer content and Unknown damage intake because of the armor you cant avoid every crushing blow so armor is one of the best stats! and you cant block every thing.

They are all good but if your over the defense crit immunity maybe use farstriders for more threat and survivabillity?

[Haedes]

I use Farstrider's w/12agi for all around use, Gilded Thorium w/120 armor for bosses/heavy melee.

[maddfez]

I swap between Farstriders and Gilded Thorium depending on if I want threat or mitigation. I had devilshark, but swapped it for the epics when I received them.

Hoping for the Phoenix cloak soon...we should have Alar down next time we actually go to TK :-)

[Paruhdox]

If you are already over the defense cap, the two epic cloaks are better than Devilshark imho.
There was a post where this was analyzed, could worth a search through the forum ^^

Edited: 1% dodge is not worthy when you are a progression tank. For 5-man and heroics Devilshark will probably win over the other two, but when raiding wear one of the epix.
Im still wearing Farstriders for almost all the content mi guild is doing (5/5 Hyjal 5/9 BT). Devilshark disenchanted one month ago.

Narshe that was factored strictly for EH. Depending on your current stats devilshark is definatly comparable to farstriders. Guilded Thorium cloak is a druid cloak just trash for a warrior. I would wear devilshark over it every day of the week. That 300 armor 4 def and 8 stam is so miniscule if you gear properly.

i would put the order as follows:
1 PEPE's shroud of pacification (what i use now)
2 Pheonix wing cloak
3 Devilshark/farstrider (depending on how your current stats look.)

[Narshe]

Im just using Phoenix wing in EH encounters because I couldn't get the Terestian one. The thing is, imho, that Devilshark is good because is just one item with good overall stats but when u need agro u will find Farstriders gives better numbers than Devilshark and when u need EH you will get better numbers with Gilded Thorium.

It's 1.x% to ur avoidance worth the loss on stamina and armor that u will get by wearing Devilshark instead of Gilded Thorium? If that so... why are u wearing full solid star of elunes in ur entire gear? Get some dodge gems instead... isn't it?

However it all depends on ur current gear. Sometimes u have the best avoidance items for ur current gear level ---> go for Gilded Thorium or Farstriders without a doubt. Or maybe u have the best EH of ur current gear lvl --> go for devilshark for sure.

What I'm pretty sure is that Gilded Thorium is not a Druid cloak but a Tank cloak.

[Kazeyonoma]

i have to agree with narshe and disagree with you paruhdox on this one. the 300 armor, 4 def, and 8 stam IS better than the 1% dodge when it comes to EH #'s and EH is what is focused on when pushing new content. that's what narshe said in her post regarding all 3 in different scenarios. Ciderhelm's parsing showed that Guilded Thorium beats the other 2 out in terms of EH by a lot, but for threat, the Farstriders wins hands down, and still doubles as a better EH cloak than devilshark, and that's why i would consider it the best overall cloak. Sure devilshark is great, and dodge isn't a bad stat, but once you've reached a comfortable avoidance (mine is between 40-45% total avoidance) stacking EH is probably the most comfortable way to boost your survivability without increasing likelihood of spike damage. It also doubles as a better way to prevent getting rage starved.

[Paruhdox]

Of a 6000 dmg hit how much dmg does 300 armor reduce? Its hard to even notice if you were to parse the same encounter with a cloak with the same stats as Guilded Thorium Cloak but with less armor you wouldnt be able to notice the damage difference unless it was a hour long encounter. 1-2 dodged attacks could easily make of for all the damage that the extra armor would have reduced if not more.

And in my previous post i stated that it was strictly for EH that made it better. You realize that the calculator is accurate for health but does not calculate avoidance which means you survive a longer amount of time with less heals as opposed to taking less actual dmg over time.

[Wartorn]

You're falling into the trap of calculating how much damage you can avoid, instead of worrying about how much damage you can take.

[Paruhdox]

Im not falling into the trap im simply stating that 300 armor is nothing at a certain point. It is so miniscule to the point were it is better to have that one percent dodge than the 300 armor. Not to mention im at the point where my hp isnt really a factor any more. But i have 20% more avoidance than you do warton. Im not trying to compare by im saying at a certain point that 300 armor is useless.

[Wartorn]

IMO, from KZ to most of SSC/TK GTC is better than Devilshark. You need that extra HP and armor. Beyond that I see more value in Farstriders than any cloak up to Pepe's, purely for the threat/EH value.

As for avoidance, I won't every stack it until I know I can reach passive uncrushability. I go dry with 40% avoidance, I don't even want to know what rage generation is like at 60%.

[Kazeyonoma]

Exactly paruh, you're falling into the avoidance can cause more damage avoided, but its on a chance, armor is purely mitigated. Everytime, everyhit, again and again.

As a MT you can't hope for the avoidance, you have to prepare for the worst not pray for the best.

[Paruhdox]

Im not falling into it im just saying that when you tank a fight like azgalor with silence you need that avoidance yea its a chance but unless you can effectivly stack your EH enough to take an extra 6k-7k hit, its pointless. Yea farstriders gives you more EH i already stated that it does. Im not talking about EH understand that. You dont think there are encounters in this game that are going to test your avoidance and eh at the same time? There are alot of fights in this game where you will be getting hit so hard and so fast all you can do is hope for avoidance and tight healing.

[Kazeyonoma]

true, like we've always said, keep different sets of gear for different encounters amirite?

[Tanken]

youarite

I am kinda fond of block value, so I have Farstriders and Devilsharks...I switch between those depending on the fight.

[Narshe]

Im not falling into it im just saying that when you tank a fight like azgalor with silence you need that avoidance yea its a chance but unless you can effectivly stack your EH enough to take an extra 6k-7k hit, its pointless.

Its not pointless. Those fights like Azgalor or Archimonde doesn't favour avoidance. You won't get enough EH for an extra 6k hit but, when u have healers resisting silence or bubbling out of a fear you will notice that your extra 2k health + your bubbled healer 4.5k greater heal is another hit taken and more time for the rest of healer recovery from boss abilities. If you favor avoidance and if it fails Im pretty sure that 2-3 healers will see u die with a heal in the middle of cast.

About the rest of ur post. It's true, 300 armor is not gonna save u, nor kill u. But its the overall that counts. If u start with not getting the 300 armor cloak, then u will lose the 180 armor in ur weapon, later the 100 additional armor of those new gloves u didn't take, etc...... You will end that you are losing a lot of pure mitigation and in the end, your healers will lose more mana into de fight because, avoidance can make u get less damage but it's still a chance and u can avoid zero attacks in an entire fight but mitigation will always works regardless of the duration or the movement u are making in the fight.

[Aelvain]

Guilded Thorium, I'm sorry to say, is meant for druids mainly. Not to say it's a bad cloak, but armor's cost in terms of itemization points is pretty high for the gains for a warrior. I see a lot of "if you want threat, get Farstrider's, if you want survival get Guilded Thorium." Farstrider's gives a whopping 9 more block value and a small amount of extra health and armor, but absolutely zero avoidance. Devilshark offers roughly 2% avoidance vs. a small loss in effective health compared to Farstrider's. If you see avoidance as pointless you're just being ignorant to be blunt. For awhile I've had Guilded Thorium and Devilshark, and can't say that the extra effective health vs. the loss in avoidance and block value was generally worthwhile. The only fight I ever used Guilded Thorium on was Al'ar, where threat did not matter at all. How many of your deaths could really have been prevented with 80 more hp? Deaths, I find, are typically a result of simple healer error, and even with 2,000 more hp usually would not have been prevented. I would say only a very small fraction of my deaths would ever have been prevented with 1 or 2 thousand more health. Note that I will still agree that effective health is the most important stat to measure for 25 man boss tanking, however on a place a cloak armor is just too costly for the gains. For overall balance Devilshark----->Phoenix-Wing-----Pepe's.

I will say that I was pissed to be stuck with Devilshark when we said goodbye to TK, but I was glad to finally replace it with Pepe's tonight.

once you've reached a comfortable avoidance (mine is between 40-45% total avoidance) stacking EH is probably the most comfortable way to boost your survivability

You see, I think people are looking at EH in the wrong way, and this is pretty much a prime example of what I see as wrong. Once you meet the minimum effective health for an encounter, that extra effective health really does absolutely nothing. Effective health should be used as a benchmark; the most important thing is to meet the minimum, once you've met it you can and should stat for more avoidance and tps.