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Thread: Getting smoked by gruul at growth 10. Gear issue?

  1. #1
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    Getting smoked by gruul at growth 10. Gear issue?

    Hi all, I have been visiting this site more frequently as my guild is slowly progressing up the 25 man circuit. We just started gruul a few weeks ago, maulgar is on farm, I MT all the encounters pretty much. We have been trying gruul, with many amazing attempts, and ONE kill. However, ever since we downed him - our attempts have gotten worse it seems. Multiple times wiping at 1% around growth 13 or so... I normally go down between 9-whenever. I keep thinking that it is my fault that I am going down, I do get crushed occasionally - I always have SB up, and pop it right before i get frozen by the grasp.. sometimes, bam - dead. After I get tossed i intercept right back to gruul and stand at his feet facing him.. i then chase him as he does that split second run out to scare the dps or whatever - then i bring him in again... I dont see any flaws in my strategies, but is there something i might be missing in that respect, or in the gear department? I keep thinking that i should swap my bp of the bold to the vindicator's hauberk or something else... Any tips would be a huge help.

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  2. #2
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    Sounds like a healing issue..

    Hmm focus mainly on keeping shield block up at growth 9+ and maybe shield wall if you go below 40% last stand etc.? just to get over the pain of gruul ?

  3. #3
    The most common problems I've seen are thus:

    Healers dying to cave-ins and shatters, so you don't have the healing to keep you up.

    Healers healing people other than the 2 tanks, thinking they can squeeze a heal to pump their numbers and get back to you.

    Lack of HoTs on the tank for the upcoming shatter while the healers are stoned.

    If you're dying before grows in the Teens these are normally the answers for a young guild just starting Gruul and not wearing much T4+ gear.

    If you can correct these issues, you should at least last until grow 15 where he becomes too strong.

    That is not to say you want to kill him in 15 grows, just that until you can survive that long, how much dps you bring is irrelevant.

    Focus on keeping that tanks alive, and once that is sorted out, the dps will be better able to learn how to cope with the shatters and cave-ins.

  4. #4
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    I agree with what you are saying. Last night our attempts were solid in terms of people not dying, etc. We had 6 healers i believe. 2 resto druids, 2 holy priests and 2 holy pallies. The healers in our guild are pretty decked out in terms of being in full kara/crafted epics essentially. I will have to make sure they (all of the healers) get the fact that they need to heal me and the hateful strike OT over everyone else first... it almost seemed that I was not getting the full heals I needed after every shatter...

  5. #5
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    Gruul is really the first encounter your healers will have to preemptively heal vs reactively heal. If they wait until you take damage to start healing, you will die...plain and simple.

    It begins a whole new game for your healers and they will have to adapt.

    That being said, put Shield Block up AFTER the shatter, not before...they will have to heal you extra from the Shatter damage and taking a crushing blow right after a shatter because SB wore out and you for some reason didn't get it back up will also mean insta-death.
    60% of the time, I work all the time...

  6. #6
    You can try assigning one, possibly 2 if you can spare it, healers to hot/flash the dps.

    But focusing on you is the #1 priority. Overhealing is NOT to be worried about.

  7. #7
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    Alrighty, sounds like a decent plan, I will be sure to pass that onto the healers. Hopefully with that in mind we can go in and one shot gruul like we have been hoping to.

  8. #8
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    Your gear is good enough, man. Definitely. (The better pants patch and the engineering gun should be priorities, though.)

  9. #9
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    I think for gruul it is important to have a good amount of space available for healers to recover and heal quickly from ground slam. Too many times a smart ass dps will try too eek that extra fireball/shadowbolt out and not move early to give healers that space. Then explode right in front of their face, requiring them to move away from MT healing.

    The problem here is that this approach works for the first 10 growths and people don't see their folly. So when he hits higher growths, the same 2 seconds of healers trying to save themselves, by healing or bandaging, the tank goes splat.

    From a healers standpoint its plain and simple. Super mana pots (or any zone specific equivalent) are your friends. A MT healer should be using one every 2 mins, no questions asked. In TBC from my experience as a healer, you NEVER stop casting if you are assigned to heal the tank. The only question is what rank to cast. For example on my priest my GH rank 2 heals for ~3k non crit. I never cancel it, even if the tank is topped off. If my heal ends and if I see even a slight dip in tanks health, I start a GH rank 7, my biggest heal. This is the only one I cancel if tank is at full before it lands. Keeping HOTs and PoM is something that needs to be done always too.

  10. #10
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    One thing I will add to what others have said is that you don't need to chase him around when he does that run to scare the DPS or whatever. Just stay in the spot you've been trying to tank him, that way if the healers have positioned based on your initial spot you won't move out of range of someone who is trying to heal you.

    Make sure that you are not in a cave-in yourself at any time. I know when I first started that encounter this could happen. Also make sure that if you're moving around to avoid a cave-in that you aren't putting your back to Gruul.

    If you are dying that early, it probably is a healing issue though. Just make sure that after growth 7 or so the healers are doing nothing other than healing you and the OT, with maybe 2 healers to HOT the rest of the raid. DPS needs to bring bandages, if not potions.
    Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. ... I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. ... -- From the Vow of the Night's Watch
    Stonehelm of Sentinels-US

  11. #11
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    "One thing I will add to what others have said is that you don't need to chase him around when he does that run to scare the DPS or whatever. Just stay in the spot you've been trying to tank him, that way if the healers have positioned based on your initial spot you won't move out of range of someone who is trying to heal you."

    QFT.

    I've healed/tanked/DPSed Gruul, and this is definitely the case. Your off-tank should do his best to make sure he's in range of Gruul, in case he decides to fire off a Hurtful early, but it's far better to let Gruul come back to you. That way, you don't have to worry about positioning, and your healers will have time to top you off and top themselves off before you're getting hit again.

    For healing, we usually put either one Pally or one Shaman on floating, then one Pally on the off-tank (with a second healer assigned to the OT after Growth 9), and everyone else exclusively on the MT.

    Or, you could do it like we did the other night, where one of your Mages accidentally aggros Gruul, and two DPS and two (of your seven) healers get locked out. Killed at Grow 12, lol.

    I don't recommend that strategy.

  12. #12
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    I am the raid leader and MT and follow these simple rules:
    (1) Put as many healers as possible into the northern part of the cave (behind the rocks etc) to minimise the amount of time they have to run around
    (2) From growth 10 I expect almost all heals to be on myself and the OT.
    (3) Healers must top you up and place some HoTs before a silence.
    (4) Keep cooldowns, potions and stones available for a bad shatter or silence
    (5) If you have a dps warrior in the raid then ask him to intervene if things go bad, even if it means that he has to sacrifice himself.

  13. #13
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    Some Stoneshield pots can help ur healers tho.
    Btw, always tell ur OT and melee dps to attack him from the rear. If they attack from the front they can get parried and u can be killed in a triple-hit-combo

    In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire.
    Panda Cub with a Gnome pet!

  14. #14
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    follow up to this post -- with all of your tips in consideration to the rest of my raid group: we have 1 shotted gruul almost every week since i started this threat. We pretty much figure he is on farm, as we have few deaths, and I never go down anymore. We are moving into the eye this week, and I expect many wipes.... but anyways - thank you all for your suggestions!

  15. #15
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    I've heard the best thing to do is have healing start with 2-3 dedicated MT healers and then add additional healers at growths 8, 10 and 12. I also try to save my Last Stand for growth 10 and Shield Wall for growth 12. If my health drops dangerously low before growth 8, I use pots and stones so the cooldowns are up to use them again by growth 10.

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